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Quote:Anthem Inc. is likely to pull back from Obamacare’s individual insurance markets in a big way for next year...An exit by Anthem might be devastating to insurance markets created by the Affordable Care Act...

Bloomberg

#TrumprightonACA
Blame Rubio and the elimination of risk corridors.
Thanks oblunder!
Pulled out - United, Aetna, BCBS (some markets)
Pulling out soon - Humana
Likely to pull out - Anthem
Considerimg - Cigna

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk...c5973d3dab
http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/20.../90742822/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/healt....html?_r=0
https://www.managedcaremag.com/dailynews...-exchanges

How the hell did they expect this to end well?
Medicare/Medicaid - Not pulling out. Here to stay and expand to all.
(03-31-2017 10:56 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote: [ -> ]Medicare/Medicaid - Not pulling out. Here to stay and expand to all.

I think that was the plan from day 1.
(03-31-2017 10:31 AM)LeFlâneur Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:Anthem Inc. is likely to pull back from Obamacare’s individual insurance markets in a big way for next year...An exit by Anthem might be devastating to insurance markets created by the Affordable Care Act...

Bloomberg

#TrumprightonACA

LOL. They just want to STEAL the reserves from the mutual holders. This is all planned between DJT and BCBS.
(03-31-2017 11:01 AM)Hood-rich Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-31-2017 10:56 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote: [ -> ]Medicare/Medicaid - Not pulling out. Here to stay and expand to all.

I think that was the plan from day 1.

Of course it was.
(03-31-2017 11:03 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-31-2017 10:31 AM)LeFlâneur Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:Anthem Inc. is likely to pull back from Obamacare’s individual insurance markets in a big way for next year...An exit by Anthem might be devastating to insurance markets created by the Affordable Care Act...

Bloomberg

#TrumprightonACA

LOL. They just want to STEAL the reserves from the mutual holders. This is all planned between DJT and BCBS.

How do you cover all your risks without reserves?
(03-31-2017 10:37 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: [ -> ]Blame Rubio and the elimination of risk corridors.

Well at least we're done blaming Bush for stuff...
(03-31-2017 10:37 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: [ -> ]Blame Rubio and the elimination of risk corridors.

Lololololololol.

See? No.

No blaming anyone except the idiots counting on the stupidity of the American people that foisted this boondoggle on us.

Passed in the dark of night. Many a back room deal struck, bribes in hand, probably some hookers and gin run amok.

Watch it implode. Fail. Spectacularly.

Welcome to the wilderness for the next 30 years.

funny thing happened on the way to single payer utopia...
(03-31-2017 10:51 AM)Hood-rich Wrote: [ -> ]Pulled out - United, Aetna, BCBS (some markets)
Pulling out soon - Humana
Likely to pull out - Anthem
Considerimg - Cigna

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk...c5973d3dab
http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/20.../90742822/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/healt....html?_r=0
https://www.managedcaremag.com/dailynews...-exchanges

How the hell did they expect this to end well?

They didn't.

Create enough chaos that the entire system breaks down. It's probably right there in chapter 1.

Part of the plan, just as many right here on this humble sports message board saw coming. Part of the plan. "This is a big f#$%ing deal". 07-coffee3
(03-31-2017 10:37 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: [ -> ]Blame Rubio and the elimination of risk corridors.

Let's see here ...

One, the Obama administration advertised that the risk corridors would be revenue neutral. Passing a law to require them to meet that test somehow caused things to crater? Sounds like maybe they needed to cater. Or somebody was lying.

Two, the risk corridors were to expire by statute at the end of FY 2016 anyway. A law which required them to end early (if that in that happened) should not have had a catastrophic effect.

Three, there has been much criticism of bailing out of insurers. This program has effect only if it bails out insurers. Make up your mind which you want to complain about.

Four, I've seen no clear indication that Rubio had anything to do with it. What I've see says the staff drafted it.

Other than that, spot on.
(03-31-2017 11:03 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-31-2017 11:01 AM)Hood-rich Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-31-2017 10:56 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote: [ -> ]Medicare/Medicaid - Not pulling out. Here to stay and expand to all.

I think that was the plan from day 1.

Of course it was.

Looks that way. At this point...Im almost in favor of it.
(03-31-2017 11:11 AM)Hood-rich Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-31-2017 11:03 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-31-2017 10:31 AM)LeFlâneur Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:Anthem Inc. is likely to pull back from Obamacare’s individual insurance markets in a big way for next year...An exit by Anthem might be devastating to insurance markets created by the Affordable Care Act...

Bloomberg

#TrumprightonACA

LOL. They just want to STEAL the reserves from the mutual holders. This is all planned between DJT and BCBS.

How do you cover all your risks without reserves?

They aren't covering anything from reserves now. Just using them as private hedge funds to pay themselves outsized bonuses off of.

If they exit, they should refund all reserves to those who paid in. Heck we OWN those reserves (as mutual holders) in theory.

Nah, DJT and BCBS have a deal..... Trump says to the BCBS folks. 'if you stop serving Obamacare folks, and kill a bunch of them along the way....we'll help you STEAL the reserves they paid into our system so you can buy some more private jets'. That was the deal stuck. And its transparent. I fully expect the GOP will try to prevent states from setting up public options as well.

Either way, at least we will know that the private sector has no business in healthcare. They are just rent takers providing no value to the system. They've accepted no risk and they've incurred no losses.

This isn't a failure of Obamacare....but a failure of the private healthcare/insurance system.
Read this JMU and Owl and you will see how I formed my opinion. They sabotaged it.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf..._owed.html
(03-31-2017 02:27 PM)Machiavelli Wrote: [ -> ]Read this JMU and Owl and you will see how I formed my opinion. They sabotaged it.
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf..._owed.html

To reiterate:

One, we were promised the the risk corridors would be deficit neutral. All this did was require them by law to be deficit neutral. So there are two and only two possibilities--either were were lied to one more time in order to get votes for the bill, or this action had no effect. There are no other possibilities. Which one do you choose?

Two, the risk corridors were supposed to expire in 2016. That means anything that happens this year or from now on had absolutely nothing to do with whatever was done with the risk corridors.

There are two economic realities that cannot be escaped:

One, you can't drive down the price of health care to consumers without driving down the cost that providers must incur to provide that care, or else you will get reduced quality and shortages. Price = cost + profit. If you reduce price without reducing cost, then you reduce profit. That will reduce the attractiveness of the health care professions to precisely the kinds of people that it needs to attract. That is an economic fact that cannot be avoided. Never in the recorded history of earth has anything ever worked contrary to that. I can pretty much guarantee that this time won't be the first. And Obamacare contained virtually nothing to reduce costs incurred by providers and added a bunch of administrative overhead to increase those costs.

Two, you can't achieve universal health care without inserting some money from outside the system. Obamacare foolishly tried to increase the number of insureds and pay for it by jacking up premiums to young healthy adults who have en masse made the economic decision that they don't need health insurance.

These are both pretty typical of the left's failure to understand market economics.

An intelligent health care bill would contain provisions to reduce provider costs--things like malpractice reform along the Swedish no-fault lines (which also serves to get bad docs out of the system faster); provisions that encourage greater use of NPs and PAs for routine, intake, and gate-keeping functions; something to reduce the cost of medical school so docs don't start out so far in debt. I could see a Bismarck system that incorporated a couple of French ideas--one, you get med school paid for if you commit to work for a fixed salary on the "free" side for 10 years, and two, once you get to the "pay" side, as long as you commit to provide so many procedures per year for the "free" side, you can participate in a reduced cost malpractice pool (Swedish malpractice sort of reduces or eliminates the impact of this latter one).

I want universal care. I don't want single-payer or single-provider, because I want the health care that I receive to be what my doc and I determine that I need, not what some bureaucrat put in the budget a year ago. Bismarck gives me the opportunity to do that on the "pay" side, which works pretty much like our old system here (when my mom had her hip replaced in Paris, the docs and hospital took Blue Cross, if that gives you an idea). Like any universal system, Bismarck will require outside funding from somewhere. I favor a consumption tax to provide that, and also to provide enough to balance the budget while lowering and broadening and flattening income tax rates. The consumption tax has one further advantage in that it levels the field with the rest of the world in terms of trade protection. I'm not big on protectionism, but I'm also not a fan of shooting ourselves in the foot.

Bismarck has one pretty simple cost control feature--design to cost. The government tells the insurers, "We are paying $2700 per person next year. Design the best plan you can for that." The insurers want that business, even if they don't make money off it, because that's where they get the mailing lists to sell the supplemental policies on the "pay" side, which is where they make their money. So they compete like hell to provide as much as possible in their basic policies. I could see this being where the impetus would come for the cost saving measures like PAs/NPs and paying for med school for docs in return for putting them on a salary for 10 years. I could see health insurers getting into the doc in a box business in a big way. I would see that kind of competition driving costs down significantly more than draconian command and control measures.
(03-31-2017 03:24 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-31-2017 02:27 PM)Machiavelli Wrote: [ -> ]Read this JMU and Owl and you will see how I formed my opinion. They sabotaged it.
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf..._owed.html

To reiterate:

One, we were promised the the risk corridors would be deficit neutral. All this did was require them by law to be deficit neutral. So there are two and only two possibilities--either were were lied to one more time in order to get votes for the bill, or this action had no effect. There are no other possibilities. Which one do you choose?

Two, the risk corridors were supposed to expire in 2016. That means anything that happens this year or from now on had absolutely nothing to do with whatever was done with the risk corridors.

There are two economic realities that cannot be escaped:

One, you can't drive down the price of health care to consumers without driving down the cost that providers must incur to provide that care, or else you will get reduced quality and shortages. That is an economic fact that cannot be avoided. Never in recorded history has anything every worked contrary to that. I can pretty much guarantee that this time won't be the first. And Obamacare contained virtually nothing to reduce costs incurred by providers and added a bunch of administrative overhead to increase those costs.

Two, you can't achieve universal health care without inserting some money from outside the system. Obamacare foolishly tried to increase the number of insureds and pay for it by jacking up premiums to young healthy adults who have en masse made the economic decision that they don't need health insurance.

These are both pretty typical of the left's failure to understand market economics.

An intelligent health care bill would contain provisions to reduce provider costs--things like malpractice reform along the Swedish no-fault lines (which also serves to get bad docs out of the system faster); provisions that encourage greater use of NPs and PAs for routine, intake, and gate-keeping functions; something to reduce the cost of medical school so docs don't start out so far in debt. I could see a Bismarck system that incorporated a couple of French ideas--one, you get med school paid for if you commit to work for a fixed salary on the "free" side for 10 years, and two, once you get to the "pay" side, as long as you commit to provide so many procedures per year for the "free" side, you can participate in a reduced cost malpractice pool (Swedish malpractice sort of reduces or eliminates the impact of this latter one).

I want universal care. I don't want single-payer or single-provider, because I want the health care that I receive to be what my doc and I determine that I need, not what some bureaucrat put in the budget a year ago. Bismarck gives me the opportunity to do that on the "pay" side, which works pretty much like our old system here (when my mom had her hip replaced in Paris, the docs and hospital took Blue Cross, if that gives you an idea). Like any universal system, Bismarck will require outside funding from somewhere. I favor a consumption tax to provide that, and also to provide enough to balance the budget while lowering and broadening and flattening income tax rates. The consumption tax has one further advantage in that it levels the field with the rest of the world in terms of trade protection. I'm not big on protectionism, but I'm also not a fan of shooting ourselves in the foot.

Bismarck has one pretty simple cost control feature--design to cost. The government tells the insurers, "We are paying $2700 per person next year. Design the best plan you can for that." The insurers want that business, even if they don't make money off it, because that's where they get the mailing lists to sell the supplemental policies on the "pay" side, which is where they make their money. So they compete like hell to provide as much as possible in their basic policies. I could see this being where the impetus would come for the cost saving measures like PAs/NPs and paying for med school for docs in return for putting them on a salary for 10 years. I could see health insurers getting into the doc in a box business in a big way. I would see that kind of competition driving costs down significantly more than draconian command and control measures.

You can't sue anyone in Texas for malpractice and get more than 5% of the CEO's salary. So effectively, there are no lawsuits in Texas. Did they reduce the costs? No. Did they increase coverage? No.

You are correct that leveraging the supplemental market is the way to go. If you could somehow FORCE the insurers to participate in Obamacare to sell supplemental policies, then they'd play ball.

If we put the Bismarck Plan in place here.....What would happen is this. They'd give the insurance companies 2700 a year, and they'd offer people a policy that covers 10 cents off of a bottle of aspirin charged out at 150,000 dollars. And it would cover nothing.

And without some mechanism for the insurers to stop segmenting the population, they'll just continue to take money from the healthy and pocket it, instead of serving the sick. Just graft.

Another solution is to say...you touch taxpayer funded assets...you cannot be a concierge or private doctor for 20 years. Taxpayer medical school? Youre in. Taxpayer supported residency hospital (including research grants)....You're in. Taxpayer subsidized or guaranteed student loan?....You're in. Medical school acceptance rates are really low and so are residency acceptance rates. Lets open those slots to people who are willing to serve the public in primary care positions. Want to be some ******* skin doctor? Sure....go to school at a private school, pay for it yourself, find some completely private place to do a residency and have no access to admitting rights at any hospital touched by taxpayer doctors. Be a completely private doctor. Don't ask the taxpayers to subsidize your education or career at the expense of a slot that could go to someone who will treat everyone.

If all you are doing is offering me some RN or LPN....then why am I paying to train a greedy concierge dermatologist?

The purpose of insurance is to ensure that sick people who can work do, and that people are incentivized to work even if they have a condition that is expensive. Insurance, especially in a system with MASSIVE policyholder paid in reserves is a promise of insurance from financial harm.

If everything I worked for goes to some selfish doctor I paid to train, even though I've always paid in the maximum....then why work?
Seems one health insurance company staying in. Could be a plan for the Blue Cross/Blue shields be the only health insurance company staying in business.
(03-31-2017 03:38 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]If you could somehow FORCE the insurers to participate in Obamacare to sell supplemental policies, then they'd play ball.

I can achieve world peace... I just need to put a gun to everyones head.

Quote:Another solution is to say...you touch taxpayer funded assets...you cannot be a concierge or private doctor for 20 years.


So indentured servitude then...
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