We need to improve our OOC schedules league-wide pronto. UConn is doing a solid job, but not good enough. My suggestion: Given that we play 18 conference games and are allowed to play up to 31 in total if we play in pre-season tournaments, every school should take advantage of that. At this point, in order to improve SOS and maintain game revenue, I suggest choosing from three different proposals for each school (I use UConn as an example, but plug in your school and schools in power conferences and/or the NBE that you could get home and home series with)
Scenario 1: 3-game preseason tourney (Maui), neutral site game vs. nearest power conference rival (vs. Syracuse at MSG), 6 home and homes with P6 schools (Arizona, Georgetown, Ohio State, Florida, Auburn, Villanova), 3 home games vs. decent mid-majors that don't kill RPI (Yale, Harvard, Princeton). Great schedule with 6 OOC home games.
Scenario 2: 3-game preseason tourney (Maui), neutral site game (Syracuse at MSG), 4 home and homes with P6 schools (Arizona, Georgetown, Villanova, Ohio State), 5 home games vs. decent mid-majors (Yale, Harvard, Princeton, Quinnipiac, Fairfield). Good schedule with 7 OOC home games.
Scenario 3: 3-game preseason tourney (Maui), neutral site game (Syracuse at MSG), 2 home and homes with P6 schools (Georgetown, Arizona), 7 home games vs. decent mid-majors (Yale, Harvard, Princeton, Quinnipiac, Fairfield, Columbia, Penn). Decent schedule with 8 OOC home games.
Which scenario do you like the most?
its not that easy...
it cost money to schedule quality home opponents (i'm talking good mid major teams from places like the A10, the MVC, Ohio Valley, etc.) and in addition to that, its not easy to get home and homes with 'name schools' (P5 types).
There are multiple reasons it's not as easy as it looks:
Mick Cronin does the best he can with it, but we still complain a lot about our OOC at UC. We mostly complain about the teams we schedule at home that are >200rpi. But as I said, to replace those three or four teams with three or four 100-150 RPI teams costs a lot more money. It's not something that you do just by thinking "hey, lets schedule better" and poof.
Plus, I think for teams like UCONN, UC, and USF its been a transition. When we were in the Big East, you didn't want a really tough OOC simply because you were going to face murderers row in conference and didn't need a tough OOC. Playing in a conference that sent 9-11 teams to the NCAA annually and in most instances had 5-8 ranked teams at one time was good enough. But since we have gotten into the AAC, its like it was in the CUSA days, you HAVE to put together a tough OOC.
As for UCONN directly: they are close to being a blue blood so they have the easiest time of anybody scheduling who they want when they want. They have the name and the money to pull that off. When UC was in CUSA and nationally powerful, we had a tremendous OOC. We were a big enough name to play who we wanted when we wanted and the Shoe was close to capacity most of the time as a result and the money was there easily to buy the home games we needed. When you are a big enough name, TV helps you put together OOC games because they want the matchups. So they COME TO YOU. We don't have that near as much now at UC and most of the AAC teams not named UCONN don't have that much at all.
I think speaking for UC, the new arena, with new luxury seating and etc. will help generate the money we need to then purchase a better OOC.
What we need is every coach 100% committed to playing the best schedule, not trying to sandbag the win column so he can keep his job etc.
I think our best chance at improving our standing is to try to make challenges with other conferences. AAC/MVC challenge or AAC/MW challenge any conference that might would do it. I don't think ECu can get home and homes with P6's certainly not 6 a year even if we wanted to.
(12-17-2016 08:24 AM)nobledictator1278 Wrote: [ -> ]I think our best chance at improving our standing is to try to make challenges with other conferences. AAC/MVC challenge or AAC/MW challenge any conference that might would do it. I don't think ECu can get home and homes with P6's certainly not 6 a year even if we wanted to.
you don't need six games vs power conferences
The trick is trying to make your 'cupcake/tune up' games against teams that are typically <200 RPI not >200 RPI. So your four or so 'gimmie' games are against MVC, OVC, CUSA, MAC, Sunbelt, or if you go to low major conferences, just make sure you are playing the teams that are most likely NCAA teams or NIT teams from those low major conferences. UC played Texas Southern from the SWAC this past week for example. The are a low major but are going to compete for the SWAC title and may have a shot to make the NCAA as a 15 seed. If that is one of your 'gimmie' games, its all good.
You guys (ECU) seem to play the dregs of the low major conferences and thats what KILLS your RPI.
(12-17-2016 08:00 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote: [ -> ]its not that easy...
it cost money to schedule quality home opponents (i'm talking good mid major teams from places like the A10, the MVC, Ohio Valley, etc.) and in addition to that, its not easy to get home and homes with 'name schools' (P5 types).
There are multiple reasons it's not as easy as it looks:
Mick Cronin does the best he can with it, but we still complain a lot about our OOC at UC. We mostly complain about the teams we schedule at home that are >200rpi. But as I said, to replace those three or four teams with three or four 100-150 RPI teams costs a lot more money. It's not something that you do just by thinking "hey, lets schedule better" and poof.
Plus, I think for teams like UCONN, UC, and USF its been a transition. When we were in the Big East, you didn't want a really tough OOC simply because you were going to face murderers row in conference and didn't need a tough OOC. Playing in a conference that sent 9-11 teams to the NCAA annually and in most instances had 5-8 ranked teams at one time was good enough. But since we have gotten into the AAC, its like it was in the CUSA days, you HAVE to put together a tough OOC.
As for UCONN directly: they are close to being a blue blood so they have the easiest time of anybody scheduling who they want when they want. They have the name and the money to pull that off. When UC was in CUSA and nationally powerful, we had a tremendous OOC. We were a big enough name to play who we wanted when we wanted and the Shoe was close to capacity most of the time as a result and the money was there easily to buy the home games we needed. When you are a big enough name, TV helps you put together OOC games because they want the matchups. So they COME TO YOU. We don't have that near as much now at UC and most of the AAC teams not named UCONN don't have that much at all.
I think speaking for UC, the new arena, with new luxury seating and etc. will help generate the money we need to then purchase a better OOC.
What we need is every coach 100% committed to playing the best schedule, not trying to sandbag the win column so he can keep his job etc.
We may not be as close to being a "Blue blood " as uconn but Memphis normally doesn't have a problem scheduling good p5s. This recent anomaly of crap schedules happen to be the result of us having a terrible coach who thought dumbing down the schedule to pad his win total was going to full the fanbase. We should be back to normal in a year or so, schedule wise and top 25 wise
The FedEx Forum deal complicates scheduling for Memphis. We must schedule a certain number of games (I cannot remember the number) which forces games with available bad teams and the Griz get first option on dates and times. However, these factors - although present - are not the primary drivers of our relatively poor OOC schedule, IMO. We had a better OOC schedule in the past under the same deal.
I think our recent fall from grace hurts our ability to schedule games with other schools looking to improve their RPI. Finally, record padding maybe a factor. I have not seen our future schedule, but I hope record padding is not considered and an upgraded schedule results.
(12-17-2016 08:24 AM)nobledictator1278 Wrote: [ -> ]I think our best chance at improving our standing is to try to make challenges with other conferences. AAC/MVC challenge or AAC/MW challenge any conference that might would do it. I don't think ECu can get home and homes with P6's certainly not 6 a year even if we wanted to.
They need to get a deal with the Pac 12, because they are the only P5 not involved in a challenge series. If the PAC doesn't want to (due to the fact the AAC isn't a P5), the next target would be the A10, because the Big East is locked up in challenges with the Big 10 and ACC. After that would be the MWC and MVC or one or the other middies out west.
(12-17-2016 08:24 AM)nobledictator1278 Wrote: [ -> ]I think our best chance at improving our standing is to try to make challenges with other conferences. AAC/MVC challenge or AAC/MW challenge any conference that might would do it. I don't think ECu can get home and homes with P6's certainly not 6 a year even if we wanted to.
Nah. We don't need a "challenge" just to say we have one. We just need a rule where the league must approve all schedules and some basic requirements for minimal scheduling strength. That will get each school to upgrade the schedule. Better scheduling adds media value to the conference.
(12-17-2016 08:24 AM)nobledictator1278 Wrote: [ -> ]I think our best chance at improving our standing is to try to make challenges with other conferences. AAC/MVC challenge or AAC/MW challenge any conference that might would do it. I don't think ECu can get home and homes with P6's certainly not 6 a year even if we wanted to.
Challenges are a good idea, however I believe an AAC vs A-10 challenge makes the most sense. The Conferences are very similar in many ways. The MVC and MW are very top heavy, both lacking quality depth. The basis of Wichita State needing to find a higher profile home is due to high risk-low reward benefit to the RPI rating.
Responding to the OP, it's impossible to standardize OOC basketball schedules like you can football. There are many more OOC games, and roster turnover in basketball may necessitate an less strenuous OOC schedule. (i.e. - Tulsa, who lost 8 players to graduation/eligibility in 2015-16.)
Trying to schedule higher profile mid-majors would help, but that also means returning the game, and no DII opponents should be doable as well.
TX
(12-17-2016 10:01 AM)Attackcoog Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2016 08:24 AM)nobledictator1278 Wrote: [ -> ]I think our best chance at improving our standing is to try to make challenges with other conferences. AAC/MVC challenge or AAC/MW challenge any conference that might would do it. I don't think ECu can get home and homes with P6's certainly not 6 a year even if we wanted to.
Nah. We don't need a "challenge" just to say we have one. We just need a rule where the league must approve all schedules and some basic requirements for minimal scheduling strength. That will get each school to upgrade the schedule. Better scheduling adds media value to the conference.
Conference approved scheduling would be a nightmare and a big deterrent for future head coaches. You can't take away schools autonomy to pick and choose OOC opponents. Some schools go through rebuilding cycles/seasons and need to cut their teeth on softer OOC.
I'm sure scheduling DII opponents without a special exemption is doable.
IMO, one change that would help is to go full round robin, 20 conference games. This would insure 2 less OOC game vs RPI 250+ would be scheduled. Plus, when the top 5-6 of the AAC play one another 2x's the conference RPI has a chance to be stronger.
TX
I know ECU is a dreg to AAC basketball and historically. I know the folks on this board and probably countless AAC fans in other cities than Greenville want us to be able to schedule harder. I don't think ECU doesn't want to schedule harder....they just can't I suspect. I suspect no one wants to come to Greenville to play, certainly not some of the traditional stronger schools. So when you start having to approve schedules...what happens when we can't get these schools to come here. Would you prefer we have a slate of a ton of away games at P5 schools where we will probably lose? That does us 0 in the future.
For the time being I think we can only hope for baby steps as it relates to our schedule.
(12-18-2016 12:22 AM)texcane1982 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2016 08:24 AM)nobledictator1278 Wrote: [ -> ]I think our best chance at improving our standing is to try to make challenges with other conferences. AAC/MVC challenge or AAC/MW challenge any conference that might would do it. I don't think ECu can get home and homes with P6's certainly not 6 a year even if we wanted to.
Challenges are a good idea, however I believe an AAC vs A-10 challenge makes the most sense. The Conferences are very similar in many ways. The MVC and MW are very top heavy, both lacking quality depth. The basis of Wichita State needing to find a higher profile home is due to high risk-low reward benefit to the RPI rating.
Responding to the OP, it's impossible to standardize OOC basketball schedules like you can football. There are many more OOC games, and roster turnover in basketball may necessitate an less strenuous OOC schedule. (i.e. - Tulsa, who lost 8 players to graduation/eligibility in 2015-16.)
Trying to schedule higher profile mid-majors would help, but that also means returning the game, and no DII opponents should be doable as well.
TX
Im not asking to completely standardize, but I am asking that the schools pick a scenario. Scenario 3 is perfect for ECU. They might be able to get South Carolina and Georgia Tech home and home, a neutral game with NCSU, a preseason tourney, and 7 home games against school around 150-200 RPI. UConn should probably pick scenario 1 or 2. Cincy, Memphis, SMU, and Temple could pick scenario 2. Tulsa and Houston could do either 2 or 3. The rest could do scenario 3. And, schools should be banned from scheduling any D-2 schools.
Status quo is killing the league & its members.......
(12-17-2016 08:00 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote: [ -> ]its not that easy...
it cost money to schedule quality home opponents (i'm talking good mid major teams from places like the A10, the MVC, Ohio Valley, etc.) and in addition to that, its not easy to get home and homes with 'name schools' (P5 types).
There are multiple reasons it's not as easy as it looks:
Mick Cronin does the best he can with it, but we still complain a lot about our OOC at UC. We mostly complain about the teams we schedule at home that are >200rpi. But as I said, to replace those three or four teams with three or four 100-150 RPI teams costs a lot more money. It's not something that you do just by thinking "hey, lets schedule better" and poof.
Plus, I think for teams like UCONN, UC, and USF its been a transition. When we were in the Big East, you didn't want a really tough OOC simply because you were going to face murderers row in conference and didn't need a tough OOC. Playing in a conference that sent 9-11 teams to the NCAA annually and in most instances had 5-8 ranked teams at one time was good enough. But since we have gotten into the AAC, its like it was in the CUSA days, you HAVE to put together a tough OOC.
As for UCONN directly: they are close to being a blue blood so they have the easiest time of anybody scheduling who they want when they want. They have the name and the money to pull that off. When UC was in CUSA and nationally powerful, we had a tremendous OOC. We were a big enough name to play who we wanted when we wanted and the Shoe was close to capacity most of the time as a result and the money was there easily to buy the home games we needed. When you are a big enough name, TV helps you put together OOC games because they want the matchups. So they COME TO YOU. We don't have that near as much now at UC and most of the AAC teams not named UCONN don't have that much at all.
I think speaking for UC, the new arena, with new luxury seating and etc. will help generate the money we need to then purchase a better OOC.
What we need is every coach 100% committed to playing the best schedule, not trying to sandbag the win column so he can keep his job etc.
I completely agree with what you said. Both of us are on the very same page on this one. Every single time I would play Legacy Mode on one of the now-defunct College Hoops games by 2K Sports, I'd schedule the hardest schedule I could, no matter which school I coached at. (Of course, I also had the game sliders adjusted to my favor, but that's beside the point.) The big name coaches got their start somewhere, and part of making a name for themselves includes knocking out bigger programs, especially the powerhouse ones. How do you think Guy Lewis became such a well-regarded coach?
Tulane actually almost met the Scenrio 3 criteria. They played UNC on a neutral court, Georgia Tech away, St. John's home, and a 3-game tourney against P6 schools. However, instead of rounding out the schedule with 7 home games against weaker teams, they only played six and one of them was a roadie.
Keep in mind that you're only able to be in Maui once every 4 years and only one AAC team can be in it. While it's true there are several others "like Maui", the competition level varies greatly and they have their own restrictions as well (even if we assume all AAC teams are wanted in these events).
You know if the AAC is so concerned with ECU scheduling abilities maybe the UConn's and Memphis's of the conference could help some of us have not schools out with offering home games for those that would come to our floor..... that way we can boost our RPI for the rest of you :-).Maybe ECU could give like x percent of the home gate for that game as compensation for those schools (the Uconn's and Memphis' that help us schedule those contests)