I know there are many firmly entrenched on the "expand the playoff to 8...5 conference champs, 1 G5, and 2 at-larges" bandwagon.
But here is the problem. If the "BCS poll" and "CFP poll" fade to obscurity in overall importance, CFB will cease to be a national sport. It's the "regional passion WITH national appeal" which has fed the sport's incredible growth these past few decades.
Case in point, I'm a Penn State fan. (Let me just say now...I don't think we "deserve" a shot in the playoff at this point, but I'm rooting for it regardless!) If PSU had an automatic bid to the playoff, there are two games I'd be concerned about this weekend--Indiana at Michigan and OSU at MSU. Those would impact PSU's "playoff chances." I might have an outside eye on Wisconsin/Minny/Nebraska...but not necessarily. Their "ranking" in the Big Ten championship game would not matter in the least. If we beat any of them, we'd be guaranteed a spot.
While that system is certainly clear-cut and easy to follow, with the current system in place
there are 16 games which have major or minor implications towards PSU's final bowl destination (and playoff chances).
I woke up early in East Africa this morning to watch the 2nd half of Louisville vs. Houston. Why? Because UL is ahead of us and the ACC is dueling the Big Ten for positioning in the playoff. Now, I love CFB but I love sleep a lot too. I guarantee that I would not wake up early for the Louisville game (I've never lived anywhere close to Kentucky or Texas!).
That is why the CFP committee and the wonky CFB systems that have existed for generations won't disappear. They can't. The sport is too unwieldy to allow a system that is so linear.
Where to begin...I don't even know...
You must be on some TV exec or college president's/conference's payroll.
Four teams is enough. Keep it as is.
Did you write that article on the 16 games you linked? If so, you know your college football. You caught all the big and little things, including the subtle nuances of how a seemingly unrelated game (Temple!) could ripple over to impact PSU's playoff chances.
Anyway, I generally agree with your point: college football is fine so why mess with it? IMO, all these expanded playoffs ideas are designed to make CFB more like the NFL, and while I love the NFL as much as I love CFB, we already have one NFL and that's enough. College basketball thrives in part because its structure is not like the NBA.
Let CFB be CFB.
I don't get into national debates about schools I can care less about if it weren't for this current system we have. My two cents.
Most people who watch college football are not (edit) fanatics of a particular team and certainly not of a particular conference. The people on boards like this are a minor subset. If there are more teams in the playoffs, they will watch more than just the top 5 or 6.
(11-18-2016 07:34 AM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ]Most people who watch college football are fanatics of a particular team and certainly not of a particular conference. The people on boards like this are a minor subset. If there are more teams in the playoffs, they will watch more than just the top 5 or 6.
Agreed. It's easy to say "We love the national interest" when you're a fan of a team like Ohio State or Alabama (or a team in contention for the top 4 this year like Penn State). However, most people want to see important games for THEIR favorite team. This is what the NFL does well and why I believe it continues to be the #1 sport in the America by a large margin (even with lower ratings this year): fans of most teams can watch THEIR team at least mathematically compete for a playoff spot very late into the year (as opposed to college football where 80% of the teams are eliminated from the playoff by the end of the first month). Having auto-bids for the CFP would bring an element of that here where EVERY conference *division* title race actually matters from a national standpoint (as winning your division means you have a chance to win your conferences and that means you can get into the playoff without having a bunch of random dudes in Dallas determine your fate based on some "eye test"). That makes the national title chase more than a fantasy for teams compared to now... and if you believe your team has a CHANCE, then your interest grows and is much more solid.
I'm a firm believer that an 8-team playoff would increase interest even further. There would be a lot MORE games that would be important from a national standpoint in that format.
How come people don't watch more second tier college basketball and those fringe teams that are vying to get in? No one cares about those individual seasons; they just care about Selection Sunday and who gets to dance. Yes, football is different, but sorry, I don't see fans tuning in for fringe clubs that are vying for 12-13 seeds with no real shot of going far.
yeah same folks who said the same thing about it when we had no BCS even, but then that worked. Then they said the same thing about going to a 4 team playoff, and now it worked. Blah blah blah blah blah.
(11-18-2016 07:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote: [ -> ]Did you write that article on the 16 games you linked? If so, you know your college football. You caught all the big and little things, including the subtle nuances of how a seemingly unrelated game (Temple!) could ripple over to impact PSU's playoff chances.
Anyway, I generally agree with your point: college football is fine so why mess with it? IMO, all these expanded playoffs ideas are designed to make CFB more like the NFL, and while I love the NFL as much as I love CFB, we already have one NFL and that's enough. College basketball thrives in part because its structure is not like the NBA.
Let CFB be CFB.
Thanks. That was my article. I wrote the first one last week when we thumped Iowa and made it into the top 10. And barring an upset by Rutgers over us, I'll be writing one for the T-giving weekend as well!
One thing that CBB lacks...is that national appeal. I'm a UNC bball fan...and I might watch a top 20 matchup between two other schools outside the ACC (like Villanova vs. Indiana, let's say)...but mostly I just focus on the ACC. And why not? The regular season doesn't matter...it's all about the ACC title for four months. And then...the nation's attention turns to the 68-team tourney.
I suppose I would still be paying attention to the national games if 2 at-large bids were available. PSU at #8 would be in the mix for those bids...even if Michigan beats OSU and goes to the Big Ten title game over us (by tie-breaker). But...the regular season would be significantly diminished.
#5 is not a fringe team. And 8 makes it more likely your team is still alive in the hunt.
Just look at the ratings of the 2 playoff bowls vs. the rest. Having a shot at the playoffs increases interest. With 8 you've got more.
And most viewers of college football are still casual watchers. They will watch good games, not just Conference "X" games. They will probably be more likely to watch Ohio St.-Michigan (or substitute Alabama-LSU, Texas-OU, USC-UCLA, Clemson-FSU) almost no matter where they live than Wake Forest-Duke, Vanderbilt-Mississippi St., Kansas-Iowa St., Northwestern-Purdue or Oregon St.-Washington St.
(11-18-2016 07:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote: [ -> ]Did you write that article on the 16 games you linked? If so, you know your college football. You caught all the big and little things, including the subtle nuances of how a seemingly unrelated game (Temple!) could ripple over to impact PSU's playoff chances.
Anyway, I generally agree with your point: college football is fine so why mess with it? IMO, all these expanded playoffs ideas are designed to make CFB more like the NFL, and while I love the NFL as much as I love CFB, we already have one NFL and that's enough. College basketball thrives in part because its structure is not like the NBA.
Let CFB be CFB.
There is no sport in the nation with more national appeal than the NFL. The national appeal remains wth 8. Why? Because the BCS/selection committee still remains. It decides 2 wild cards and it decides the top G5. That means there are even MORE teams tduring the season hat are in Penn States position where multiple games affect thier possible position in the playoff, thier seeding, or thier possible bowl opponent. The B5 bowl alone creates a situation where 65 teams with zero shot now have a legit path to the playoff.
It's the same theory that baseball, the NFL, and basketball used to create extra interest in the sport. More playoff slots mean more teams are alive late---thus the amount of high level of interest exists for a larger number of hard core fans and more bandwagon casual fans exist in a larger number of cities.
Yeah a 16 team playoff with auto bids for every conference would completely dim interest in college football.
No one who is a fan of a team that might be contending for a top seed would have tuned into Arkansas State at Troy last night to see who might take the Sun Belt auto bid and be their first round opponent.
If WMU loses before the MAC championship, the MAC championship game matters to MAC fans and oh hey there is football on viewers.
CUSA title this year matters to CUSA fans. In a broad playoff it gains national relevance.
Depending on how the chips fall, MWC title game may be of no relevance.
May not matter who wins the Big XII. Depending on how things fall, the same could be true of the ACC or Pac-12 if the chaos continues.
Yes absolutely terrible for college football to have more relevant games in November and December.
Nobody is going to watch games in late September/October with 8 teams. Why? Because the OOC schedules become irrelevant. Nobody will care about two measly At-Large bids that won't factor in until the end. They will just focus on the big division games and schedule FCS schools for warm up.
Unless there was a caveat where you are forced to schedule 2 P5 teams, people will schedule FCS schools. Nobody is going to take a chance with the scheduling if they are guaranteed an auto bid.
College football is no longer a national sport at that point. I've not heard one decent argument of why OOC scheduling would be weighed heavily or even be relevant with 8 teams. And that's because it wouldn't be.
Did I mention OOC scheduling would be irrelevant and teams would schedule cupcakes to fill out the schedule? I'll say it again... meaningless regular season games throughout the beginning of the year and prior to rivalry weekend.
(11-18-2016 09:59 AM)RUScarlets Wrote: [ -> ]Nobody is going to watch games in late September/October with 8 teams. Why? Because the OOC schedules become irrelevant. Nobody will care about two measly At-Large bids that won't factor in until the end. They will just focus on the big division games and schedule FCS schools for warm up.
Unless there was a caveat where you are forced to schedule 2 P5 teams, people will schedule FCS schools. Nobody is going to take a chance with the scheduling if they are guaranteed an auto bid.
College football is no longer a national sport at that point. I've not heard one decent argument of why OOC scheduling would be weighed heavily or even be relevant with 8 teams. And that's because it wouldn't be.
Did I mention OOC scheduling would be irrelevant and teams would schedule cupcakes to fill out the schedule? I'll say it again... meaningless regular season games throughout the beginning of the year and prior to rivalry weekend.
yeah folks said the same thing before. And that logic was blown out of the water. Sure you can win your conference and get in- but as Ohio St is showing this year, 1 poorly placed loss can kill all of that. SOS has never meant more than it does now. See what happened with Baylor 2 years ago, and how much Washington is struggling this year.
I remember some of these same basic arguments being made when the NCAA basketball tournament was first expanded. They must be right since that was such a colossal disaster.
(11-18-2016 09:59 AM)RUScarlets Wrote: [ -> ]Nobody is going to watch games in late September/October with 8 teams. Why? Because the OOC schedules become irrelevant. Nobody will care about two measly At-Large bids that won't factor in until the end. They will just focus on the big division games and schedule FCS schools for warm up.
Unless there was a caveat where you are forced to schedule 2 P5 teams, people will schedule FCS schools. Nobody is going to take a chance with the scheduling if they are guaranteed an auto bid.
College football is no longer a national sport at that point. I've not heard one decent argument of why OOC scheduling would be weighed heavily or even be relevant with 8 teams. And that's because it wouldn't be.
Did I mention OOC scheduling would be irrelevant and teams would schedule cupcakes to fill out the schedule? I'll say it again... meaningless regular season games throughout the beginning of the year and prior to rivalry weekend.
Actually, MORE people will likely watch September and October games and the OOC games would likely improve substantially. The scarcity of 2 at large spots would make SOS paramount. And, OOC games could greatly affect seeding, even for the eventual conference champions - which could be the difference between a home game against WMU or a road game at Clemson.
(11-18-2016 09:25 AM)RUScarlets Wrote: [ -> ]How come people don't watch more second tier college basketball and those fringe teams that are vying to get in? No one cares about those individual seasons; they just care about Selection Sunday and who gets to dance. Yes, football is different, but sorry, I don't see fans tuning in for fringe clubs that are vying for 12-13 seeds with no real shot of going far.
We're talking about 8 playoff spots for 130-plus teams!!!
Only TWO of those spots would be at-large teams under what has been largely discussed here.
The exclusivity of that 8-team playoff is already an insanely high level compared to every single other major American sport (college or pro).
stever20 is correct - we got the same complaints that there would supposedly be less interest in games in the 4-team playoff compared to the 2-team BCS... and that was completely incorrect. When more teams are in the hunt, that drives a TON more interest. We're not discussing an NCAA Tournament-style playoff with tons of at-large spots and margin for error here. Winning a P5 league is already a huge bar to cross and getting one of those at-large spots would require a resume that would need to be competitive even in a 4-team playoff scenario. If anything, this provides incentive for schools to get even more aggressive in making their non-conference scheduling stronger to improve their at-large chances in the event that they don't win their conference (while also not getting punished by getting knocked out of the national title race in the first two weeks because they chose to play a tough non-conference team). An 8-team playoff is still an incredibly exclusive format that doesn't allow for much margin for error in the regular season (just as now). We shouldn't lose sight of that fact.
(11-18-2016 09:59 AM)RUScarlets Wrote: [ -> ]College football is no longer a national sport at that point. I've not heard one decent argument of why OOC scheduling would be weighed heavily or even be relevant with 8 teams. And that's because it wouldn't be.
Did I mention OOC scheduling would be irrelevant and teams would schedule cupcakes to fill out the schedule? I'll say it again... meaningless regular season games throughout the beginning of the year and prior to rivalry weekend.
OOC schedules would IMPROVE. Teams would be willing to risk better OOC games because the conference championship would provide a path the playoff. Big OOC games would benefit your team's growth to compete for the conference championship...and win a couple of big OOC games and you are much more competitive for the 2 Wild Card spots.
More games matter for more fan bases.
It would be huge.
This is simple. All FBS conference champs and 2 wildcards. 12 team playoff. Seeding and homefield determined by committee.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk