(04-12-2017 04:34 PM)TexasTerror Wrote: [ -> ] (04-12-2017 12:56 AM)teamvsn Wrote: [ -> ]Rust definitely stepped UP, going from D3 to NAIA.
I've been to Rust. That was an experience...
Rust is likely utilizing NAIA as a method to cut back on the number of 'team sports' that they had to offer at the Division III level due to enrollment size. Presume they will cut men's volleyball and maybe baseball and/or softball with the move to NAIA.
Not sure they'll fund many scholarships... and perhaps find a landing spot with the GCAC?
Yes, they fit in the GCAC but I've not heard anything official.
Keep in mind that for a private college, athletics is a way of generating (tuition) revenue. Sports are a "profit" center, not an expense. If Rust deems that their current volleyball/baseball/softball athletes would be going there even if their sport didn't exist, they might indeed cut them. Rust's tuition is about $10k, and their room & board about $4k. Let's say they have a 40 man baseball roster. That works out to $560,000 in revenue per year. Surely the coaches and playing field maintenance don't cost that much. Could they afford to see that go?
Maybe they should start football? Assuming a 100 man roster that would be $1.4 million in revenue. Assuming they already have the teaching and residence capacity for 100 extra students, and a location they can rent for practice and games, might that be a good thing for them? Certainly you'd have to offer some scholarships to be competitive on the field, but maybe they aren't worried about competitiveness right off the bat. See what I mean?
Coming at it from another (D2) direction, look at what Stillman did last year. They joined the NAIA and promptly cut all their sports except men's/women's basketball, with the plan of eventually bringing them back. This had the effect of generating a nice clean break with their bloated (D2 rules) athletic department and completely reset the budget. By the end of the summer, they decided to add baseball & softball back immediately. They are rebuilding their program from the ground up, NAIA style. They're competitive too. If they had been eligible this year, their men's basketball team probably would have gotten an at large bid to the national tournament. I just saw that their baseball team beat NAIA #10 William Carey. They are going to love the NAIA. I am hoping they'll reinstate their football team soon.
The NCAA rule and compliance burden is killing smaller schools.
(04-12-2017 02:21 PM)teamvsn Wrote: [ -> ] (04-12-2017 01:35 PM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]Why would a DII go to NAIA?? If anything, I've seen the trend as the opposite in the upper midwest.
That trend has pretty much slowed to a trickle, as the schools that can adapt to D2 have already gone, and those that can't adapt but went anyway have not had good experiences.
Lots of schools that fit into the NAIA's sweet spot would consider going NAIA. The NAIA's sweet spot is for running a high quality athletics program on a lower budget than D2 or even D3. Schools under 3000 students, especially private schools, without huge endowments. There are huge disadvantages in D2 for such schools, like requiring a lot of administrative overhead, compliance rules that make sense for elite athletes but zero sense for normal student athletes, budget flexibility on a year by year basis (for example no scholarship minimums), recruiting rule advantages (year round, international ineligibility, etc.), and a more accommodating approach to coach-athlete relationships that fosters mentoring and leadership development. And many of the "leading institutions" in the NAIA being religiously oriented, there's more of a sense that politics of the organization won't be hostile to them. Only about 25% (a guess) of current NAIA membership are public schools.
Look at it this way: if you are a school of between 1500 and 2000 students, private and religious, don't have the money to fully fund your scholarship levels, and haven't seen national tournaments on a regular basis in decades, why would you want to stay in the NCAA? You could take all the money you spend on administration & compliance, focus it on a few targeted sports and have better teams than you had in the NCAA, win more games, have more championship appearances, more excitement on campus, and perhaps do a better job of developing students into leaders. Or you could have a blue disc on your web site.
Davenport moved to to D2 because they have over 10,000 students enrolled. I noticed the that many of the schools that went back to NAIA are small schools. I also think it have to be schools in a large populated areas that these schools that move up to D2 was more for exposure for being an NCAA member. I know a lot of people never heard of NAIA before and think all the NAIA schools belong to the NCAA.
Which large student population schools from the NAIA like Davenport could make a move to the NAIA to become successful like Arkansas Tech, UCA and so forth that moved up?
(04-12-2017 05:32 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]Davenport moved to to D2 because they have over 10,000 students enrolled. I noticed the that many of the schools that went back to NAIA are small schools. I also think it have to be schools in a large populated areas that these schools that move up to D2 was more for exposure for being an NCAA member. I know a lot of people never heard of NAIA before and think all the NAIA schools belong to the NCAA.
Which large student population schools from the NAIA like Davenport could make a move to the NAIA to become successful like Arkansas Tech, UCA and so forth that moved up?
Davenport (and Purdue NW) has been a great NAIA member but they fit the profile of a school that can be successful in D2 and I wish them well. AFAIK, the only full sport NAIA member left that big is Bellevue, NE. Which is private, secular.
"Exposure" has been one of the justifications for moving to D2 in recent years, but as it turns out it adds ZERO exposure. Unless you mean that of just changing your geographic travel footprint, which moving from D2 to NAIA will do as well. Media exposure, no. Many recent D2 migrants have been sorely disappointed in the promised increased media coverage. Media doesn't care about D2 any more than NAIA. The blue disc adds nothing. If any schools did end up getting additional media exposure, it's from tangental issues such as simultaneous growth, a larger/better athletic program, or stronger local rivalries; all of which could happen in the NAIA as well.
(04-12-2017 05:50 PM)teamvsn Wrote: [ -> ] (04-12-2017 05:32 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]Davenport moved to to D2 because they have over 10,000 students enrolled. I noticed the that many of the schools that went back to NAIA are small schools. I also think it have to be schools in a large populated areas that these schools that move up to D2 was more for exposure for being an NCAA member. I know a lot of people never heard of NAIA before and think all the NAIA schools belong to the NCAA.
Which large student population schools from the NAIA like Davenport could make a move to the NAIA to become successful like Arkansas Tech, UCA and so forth that moved up?
Davenport (and Purdue NW) has been a great NAIA member but they fit the profile of a school that can be successful in D2 and I wish them well. AFAIK, the only full sport NAIA member left that big is Bellevue, NE. Which is private, secular.
"Exposure" has been one of the justifications for moving to D2 in recent years, but as it turns out it adds ZERO exposure. Unless you mean that of just changing your geographic travel footprint, which moving from D2 to NAIA will do as well. Media exposure, no. Many recent D2 migrants have been sorely disappointed in the promised increased media coverage. Media doesn't care about D2 any more than NAIA. The blue disc adds nothing. If any schools did end up getting additional media exposure, it's from tangental issues such as simultaneous growth, a larger/better athletic program, or stronger local rivalries; all of which could happen in the NAIA as well.
I could see Southern Nazarene and Northwest Oklahoma State moving back down to NAIA. They have not been doing so well in D2 getting their behinds to them in football and all that. I am surprise that GAC invited Southern Nazarene instead of Oklahoma City University. OKCU have done a great job at the D1 level in basketball, and was ranked as one of the top 100 men's basketball at D1 with the likes of Duke and all of them for making many NCAA tournaments. I think the link I posted in this thread for Northeast Oklahoma State could be moving to GAC to take the place of one of those 2 schools. I could see Central Oklahoma move in to replace one of the others.
I think Oklahoma Baptist had some success of the three that moved up from NAIA in the GAC in recent years. Their women's LAX is an affiliate in RMAC, and I think one of their sports have been listed as D1 since D2 do not sponsor that sport. They are getting a little more exposure for sure than the other 2 I mention.
I would like to see the Canadian schools to move up from the NAIA. They have the biggest enrollments. University of British Columbia is up there in academics with the PAC 12.
(04-12-2017 06:17 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]I could see Southern Nazarene and Northwest Oklahoma State moving back down to NAIA. They have not been doing so well in D2 getting their behinds to them in football and all that. I am surprise that GAC invited Southern Nazarene instead of Oklahoma City University. OKCU have done a great job at the D1 level in basketball, and was ranked as one of the top 100 men's basketball at D1 with the likes of Duke and all of them for making many NCAA tournaments. I think the link I posted in this thread for Northeast Oklahoma State could be moving to GAC to take the place of one of those 2 schools. I could see Central Oklahoma move in to replace one of the others.
I think Oklahoma Baptist had some success of the three that moved up from NAIA in the GAC in recent years. Their women's LAX is an affiliate in RMAC, and I think one of their sports have been listed as D1 since D2 do not sponsor that sport. They are getting a little more exposure for sure than the other 2 I mention.
I would like to see the Canadian schools to move up from the NAIA. They have the biggest enrollments. University of British Columbia is up there in academics with the PAC 12.
I think it's too soon to approach Southern Naz, NWOSU or OBU. Or any of the other former Sooner Conference teams. The ones suffering are still holding out hope for success, and the successful ones are still riding the coattails of their NAIA success (Lubbock) to know how they'll REALLY do in D2.
OCU stepped down from D1 because of how expensive it got. That hasn't changed; in fact it's gotten worse. They are on the edge of being a good fit for D2 (3k enrollment, 100m endowment) but not D1.
UBC is a baseball/softball only member of the NAIA. In other sports they are committed to CIS.
(04-12-2017 06:17 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]I could see Southern Nazarene and Northwest Oklahoma State moving back down to NAIA. They have not been doing so well in D2 getting their behinds to them in football and all that. I am surprise that GAC invited Southern Nazarene instead of Oklahoma City University. OKCU have done a great job at the D1 level in basketball, and was ranked as one of the top 100 men's basketball at D1 with the likes of Duke and all of them for making many NCAA tournaments. I think the link I posted in this thread for Northeast Oklahoma State could be moving to GAC to take the place of one of those 2 schools. I could see Central Oklahoma move in to replace one of the others.
I think Oklahoma Baptist had some success of the three that moved up from NAIA in the GAC in recent years. Their women's LAX is an affiliate in RMAC, and I think one of their sports have been listed as D1 since D2 do not sponsor that sport. They are getting a little more exposure for sure than the other 2 I mention.
I would like to see the Canadian schools to move up from the NAIA. They have the biggest enrollments. University of British Columbia is up there in academics with the PAC 12.
Northwestern Oklahoma State has completed all of ONE year as a full D2 member and Southern Nazarene has TWO years as a full member. Basing their success on the performance of one or two sports in a very short span of time is narrow-minded, it may not seem like it now but both schools will see more success. Oklahoma Baptist is still in transition and could dominate the conference soon. There is no Great American Conference member with a sport competing in D1, not even close.
What Oklahoma City University accomplished when they were previously D1 means absolutely nothing to today. What happened in college sports ten years ago means nothing to today primarily because the students that were there then are long gone now. History is just that, history. The Great American Conference did not and will not invite the OCU Stars because football is a required sport in the GAC.
No other Canadian school is interested in moving to NCAA D2, which is the only option they have since it is not allowed in D1 or D3. My perception of Simon Fraser is that they are a U.S. school that just happens to be located in Canada.
Quote:I think it's too soon to approach Southern Naz, NWOSU or OBU. Or any of the other former Sooner Conference teams. The ones suffering are still holding out hope for success, and the successful ones are still riding the coattails of their NAIA success (Lubbock) to know how they'll REALLY do in D2.
I don't think Lubbock Christian is riding any coattails of NAIA success after winning a D2 national title in their first year. Most of the players on that team were recruited after LCU began the reclassifying.
(04-12-2017 07:42 PM)AZcats Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:I think it's too soon to approach Southern Naz, NWOSU or OBU. Or any of the other former Sooner Conference teams. The ones suffering are still holding out hope for success, and the successful ones are still riding the coattails of their NAIA success (Lubbock) to know how they'll REALLY do in D2.
I don't think Lubbock Christian is riding any coattails of NAIA success after winning a D2 national title in their first year. Most of the players on that team were recruited after LCU began the reclassifying.
Not true. Look at their stats for 2015-16:
http://lcuchaps.com/cumestats.aspx?path=...&year=2015
and the roster for the Chaps in 2011-12:
http://www.dakstats.com/WebSync/Pages/Te...1&team=222
Key upperclassmen, and the year they first appeared on the roster:
Hampton: 2012-13
Bruffey: 2014-15
Hoppel: 2012-13
Fowler: 2013-14
Schnieder: 2015-16 - SR - Texas Tech
Taylor: 2012-13
Lubbock's last year in the NAIA was 2012-13, meaning these players were all signed before their D2 application was approved, probably before they even submitted their application, and under NAIA rules. They redshirted those young players so that they'd still be eligible in their first year of D2 post season eligibility. And it's not like there wasn't a history: Gomez had been coach there for 10 years as an NAIA school, and made 10 consecutive trips to the national tournament including several deep runs, and a final four in 2012. Look at their schedules from before their transition. That was already a dang good team.
Azusa Pacific's men's basketball used exactly the same strategy. They had some great young recruits that they red shirted to save their eligibility. In their first year of post season eligibility, they made the Elite 8 with starters who were 4 NAIA recruits and a GREAT shooter who transferred from UCSB for his senior year.
(04-12-2017 11:26 PM)teamvsn Wrote: [ -> ] (04-12-2017 07:42 PM)AZcats Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:I think it's too soon to approach Southern Naz, NWOSU or OBU. Or any of the other former Sooner Conference teams. The ones suffering are still holding out hope for success, and the successful ones are still riding the coattails of their NAIA success (Lubbock) to know how they'll REALLY do in D2.
I don't think Lubbock Christian is riding any coattails of NAIA success after winning a D2 national title in their first year. Most of the players on that team were recruited after LCU began the reclassifying.
Not true. Look at their stats for 2015-16:
http://lcuchaps.com/cumestats.aspx?path=...&year=2015
and the roster for the Chaps in 2011-12:
http://www.dakstats.com/WebSync/Pages/Te...1&team=222
Key upperclassmen, and the year they first appeared on the roster:
Hampton: 2012-13
Bruffey: 2014-15
Hoppel: 2012-13
Fowler: 2013-14
Schnieder: 2015-16 - SR - Texas Tech
Taylor: 2012-13
Lubbock's last year in the NAIA was 2012-13, meaning these players were all signed before their D2 application was approved, probably before they even submitted their application, and under NAIA rules. They redshirted those young players so that they'd still be eligible in their first year of D2 post season eligibility. And it's not like there wasn't a history: Gomez had been coach there for 10 years as an NAIA school, and made 10 consecutive trips to the national tournament including several deep runs, and a final four in 2012. Look at their schedules from before their transition. That was already a dang good team.
Azusa Pacific's men's basketball used exactly the same strategy. They had some great young recruits that they red shirted to save their eligibility. In their first year of post season eligibility, they made the Elite 8 with starters who were 4 NAIA recruits and a GREAT shooter who transferred from UCSB for his senior year.
I think Azusa Pacific would be a D1 school down the road. People have heard of them because they are making a name for themselves.
I looked at some of the schools at the NAIA, and found some of them do have a student body for D2. Southern Oregon, from a 2015 enrollment, was larger than Western Oregon and Central Washington. They would fit in GNAC. Northwest Nazarene also have a pretty good size enrollment as well. Southern Oregon is growing faster with students while Eastern Oregon is struggling.
Texas Wesleyan could be a D2 material where they are at in the Dallas Metro area.
Indiana Wesleyan is another that is growing. That might be they have multiple campuses which could bring them up over 10,000.
Of course, those two do have history, and going in one direction, while others going backwards.
I guess winning a championship in football or adding football helps grow the population of students for the schools. Seems to be working for Southern Oregon, Texas Wesleyan and Indiana Wesleyan. Might work out for Lawrence Tech as well.
Back to the OKCU school? Maybe make it into a hybrid like Delaware is. Have OU get involved and make it University of Oklahoma-Oklahoma City. It might help make it grow, and get the school to the school in better finances.
Oklahoma State could do the same with Langston and call it Oklahoma State @ Langston and do the same for Bacone as Oklahoma State at Bacone. Could help save those three schools.
Northwest Nazarene has been D2 already for about 10 years :D
Texas Wesleyan attempted D2 in the early 2000's, thought it was ridiculous and bailed on the transition. They'll laugh at you if you suggest they go D2.
How does it make sense for OU to get involved with a private, religious (Methodist) school????
(04-12-2017 11:57 PM)teamvsn Wrote: [ -> ]Northwest Nazarene has been D2 already for about 10 years :D
Texas Wesleyan attempted D2 in the early 2000's, thought it was ridiculous and bailed on the transition. They'll laugh at you if you suggest they go D2.
How does it make sense for OU to get involved with a private, religious (Methodist) school????
Well, they are not like Baylor, so they are safe. :D
(04-12-2017 11:47 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]Back to the OKCU school? Maybe make it into a hybrid like Delaware is. Have OU get involved and make it University of Oklahoma-Oklahoma City. It might help make it grow, and get the school to the school in better finances.
Oklahoma State could do the same with Langston and call it Oklahoma State @ Langston and do the same for Bacone as Oklahoma State at Bacone. Could help save those three schools.
Oklahoma native, lifelong OU fan, OBU grad here.
OCU is private and associated with the United Methodist Church. They are not merging into OU, or any public institution. They were the 800 pound gorilla of the NAIA for their first 20 years or so after dropping from D-I. I don't know their financial situation, I know they used to be well-resourced at the NAIA level. Even if they never started football, they had the opportunity to move to D-II, as nearby rival Oklahoma Christian did (to the Heartland Conference).
Langston is an HBCU. They are actually governed by the Oklahoma A&M Board of Regents (still the name of the board), the same board that governs OSU. Being an HBCU, they aren't merging into OSU any time soon.
Bacone is a private, historically Native American school with ties to American Baptists. They were a junior college until the 90's. They'd be more likely to shut down than directly merge into a state school.
Back when the whole prop 48 thing was being debated the SWAC and MEAC were strong opponents because they argued it interfered with their academic mission serving students who had impaired academic backgrounds and argued that the testing was racially biased.
I really thought at the time that if they believed it was interfering with their mission that they should have considered NAIA membership where the eligibility standards would be consistent with their admission practices.
The ego factor of being Division I results in schools aligning in ways that don't fit who they are as an institution.
(04-12-2017 11:26 PM)teamvsn Wrote: [ -> ] (04-12-2017 07:42 PM)AZcats Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:I think it's too soon to approach Southern Naz, NWOSU or OBU. Or any of the other former Sooner Conference teams. The ones suffering are still holding out hope for success, and the successful ones are still riding the coattails of their NAIA success (Lubbock) to know how they'll REALLY do in D2.
I don't think Lubbock Christian is riding any coattails of NAIA success after winning a D2 national title in their first year. Most of the players on that team were recruited after LCU began the reclassifying.
Not true. Look at their stats for 2015-16:
http://lcuchaps.com/cumestats.aspx?path=...&year=2015
and the roster for the Chaps in 2011-12:
http://www.dakstats.com/WebSync/Pages/Te...1&team=222
Key upperclassmen, and the year they first appeared on the roster:
Hampton: 2012-13
Bruffey: 2014-15
Hoppel: 2012-13
Fowler: 2013-14
Schnieder: 2015-16 - SR - Texas Tech
Taylor: 2012-13
Lubbock's last year in the NAIA was 2012-13, meaning these players were all signed before their D2 application was approved, probably before they even submitted their application, and under NAIA rules. They redshirted those young players so that they'd still be eligible in their first year of D2 post season eligibility. And it's not like there wasn't a history: Gomez had been coach there for 10 years as an NAIA school, and made 10 consecutive trips to the national tournament including several deep runs, and a final four in 2012. Look at their schedules from before their transition. That was already a dang good team.
Azusa Pacific's men's basketball used exactly the same strategy. They had some great young recruits that they red shirted to save their eligibility. In their first year of post season eligibility, they made the Elite 8 with starters who were 4 NAIA recruits and a GREAT shooter who transferred from UCSB for his senior year.
Thanks. I may be wrong but the evidence you presented proves my statement to be true.
(04-13-2017 08:26 AM)arkstfan Wrote: [ -> ]Back when the whole prop 48 thing was being debated the SWAC and MEAC were strong opponents because they argued it interfered with their academic mission serving students who had impaired academic backgrounds and argued that the testing was racially biased.
I really thought at the time that if they believed it was interfering with their mission that they should have considered NAIA membership where the eligibility standards would be consistent with their admission practices.
The ego factor of being Division I results in schools aligning in ways that don't fit who they are as an institution.
Ego factor or not, but the HBCUs have been think of as being not as equals to the other universities which is why they are struggling. Tennessee State might be the only one doing all right not being in an HBCU conference. I think Florida A&M wanted to shed the HBCU image to join the Sun Belt, but backed out.
Alabama State wants to go to FBS as well and tried to talk to the SBC to let them in, but with South Alabama and Troy in the conference, they will not be let in. The only HBCUs that I could see be let in are Jackson State, Tennessee State, Florida A&M and Bethune-Cookman since they do not have a presence in those states.
Jackson State could fill the Mississippi hole in the SBC. Plus, Jackson State is not really considered a HBCU anymore with them enrolling white kids. They might become another Ole Miss. school with a mix race population.
(04-13-2017 10:30 AM)AZcats Wrote: [ -> ] (04-12-2017 11:26 PM)teamvsn Wrote: [ -> ] (04-12-2017 07:42 PM)AZcats Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:I think it's too soon to approach Southern Naz, NWOSU or OBU. Or any of the other former Sooner Conference teams. The ones suffering are still holding out hope for success, and the successful ones are still riding the coattails of their NAIA success (Lubbock) to know how they'll REALLY do in D2.
I don't think Lubbock Christian is riding any coattails of NAIA success after winning a D2 national title in their first year. Most of the players on that team were recruited after LCU began the reclassifying.
Not true. Look at their stats for 2015-16:
http://lcuchaps.com/cumestats.aspx?path=...&year=2015
and the roster for the Chaps in 2011-12:
http://www.dakstats.com/WebSync/Pages/Te...1&team=222
Key upperclassmen, and the year they first appeared on the roster:
Hampton: 2012-13
Bruffey: 2014-15
Hoppel: 2012-13
Fowler: 2013-14
Schnieder: 2015-16 - SR - Texas Tech
Taylor: 2012-13
Lubbock's last year in the NAIA was 2012-13, meaning these players were all signed before their D2 application was approved, probably before they even submitted their application, and under NAIA rules. They redshirted those young players so that they'd still be eligible in their first year of D2 post season eligibility. And it's not like there wasn't a history: Gomez had been coach there for 10 years as an NAIA school, and made 10 consecutive trips to the national tournament including several deep runs, and a final four in 2012. Look at their schedules from before their transition. That was already a dang good team.
Azusa Pacific's men's basketball used exactly the same strategy. They had some great young recruits that they red shirted to save their eligibility. In their first year of post season eligibility, they made the Elite 8 with starters who were 4 NAIA recruits and a GREAT shooter who transferred from UCSB for his senior year.
Thanks. I may be wrong but the evidence you presented proves my statement to be true.
OK, explain how my evidence shows that you are right.
(04-13-2017 11:46 AM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ] (04-13-2017 08:26 AM)arkstfan Wrote: [ -> ]Back when the whole prop 48 thing was being debated the SWAC and MEAC were strong opponents because they argued it interfered with their academic mission serving students who had impaired academic backgrounds and argued that the testing was racially biased.
I really thought at the time that if they believed it was interfering with their mission that they should have considered NAIA membership where the eligibility standards would be consistent with their admission practices.
The ego factor of being Division I results in schools aligning in ways that don't fit who they are as an institution.
Ego factor or not, but the HBCUs have been think of as being not as equals to the other universities which is why they are struggling. Tennessee State might be the only one doing all right not being in an HBCU conference. I think Florida A&M wanted to shed the HBCU image to join the Sun Belt, but backed out.
Alabama State wants to go to FBS as well and tried to talk to the SBC to let them in, but with South Alabama and Troy in the conference, they will not be let in. The only HBCUs that I could see be let in are Jackson State, Tennessee State, Florida A&M and Bethune-Cookman since they do not have a presence in those states.
Jackson State could fill the Mississippi hole in the SBC. Plus, Jackson State is not really considered a HBCU anymore with them enrolling white kids. They might become another Ole Miss. school with a mix race population.
Dude you are a mountain of misinformation when it comes down to HBCUs. This is like the 3rd post of yours with 1/2 truths and whole lies that I've run across. Usually there's 0 HBCU presence on this board so it goes unchecked but dude stop.
(04-13-2017 12:16 PM)GreenHornet33 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-13-2017 11:46 AM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ] (04-13-2017 08:26 AM)arkstfan Wrote: [ -> ]Back when the whole prop 48 thing was being debated the SWAC and MEAC were strong opponents because they argued it interfered with their academic mission serving students who had impaired academic backgrounds and argued that the testing was racially biased.
I really thought at the time that if they believed it was interfering with their mission that they should have considered NAIA membership where the eligibility standards would be consistent with their admission practices.
The ego factor of being Division I results in schools aligning in ways that don't fit who they are as an institution.
Ego factor or not, but the HBCUs have been think of as being not as equals to the other universities which is why they are struggling. Tennessee State might be the only one doing all right not being in an HBCU conference. I think Florida A&M wanted to shed the HBCU image to join the Sun Belt, but backed out.
Alabama State wants to go to FBS as well and tried to talk to the SBC to let them in, but with South Alabama and Troy in the conference, they will not be let in. The only HBCUs that I could see be let in are Jackson State, Tennessee State, Florida A&M and Bethune-Cookman since they do not have a presence in those states.
Jackson State could fill the Mississippi hole in the SBC. Plus, Jackson State is not really considered a HBCU anymore with them enrolling white kids. They might become another Ole Miss. school with a mix race population.
Dude you are a mountain of misinformation when it comes down to HBCUs. This is like the 3rd post of yours with 1/2 truths and whole lies that I've run across. Usually there's 0 HBCU presence on this board so it goes unchecked but dude stop.
Then, why are there any HBCUs in FBS if they are supposed to be equals to the others?
(04-13-2017 01:16 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ] (04-13-2017 12:16 PM)GreenHornet33 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-13-2017 11:46 AM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ] (04-13-2017 08:26 AM)arkstfan Wrote: [ -> ]Back when the whole prop 48 thing was being debated the SWAC and MEAC were strong opponents because they argued it interfered with their academic mission serving students who had impaired academic backgrounds and argued that the testing was racially biased.
I really thought at the time that if they believed it was interfering with their mission that they should have considered NAIA membership where the eligibility standards would be consistent with their admission practices.
The ego factor of being Division I results in schools aligning in ways that don't fit who they are as an institution.
Ego factor or not, but the HBCUs have been think of as being not as equals to the other universities which is why they are struggling. Tennessee State might be the only one doing all right not being in an HBCU conference. I think Florida A&M wanted to shed the HBCU image to join the Sun Belt, but backed out.
Alabama State wants to go to FBS as well and tried to talk to the SBC to let them in, but with South Alabama and Troy in the conference, they will not be let in. The only HBCUs that I could see be let in are Jackson State, Tennessee State, Florida A&M and Bethune-Cookman since they do not have a presence in those states.
Jackson State could fill the Mississippi hole in the SBC. Plus, Jackson State is not really considered a HBCU anymore with them enrolling white kids. They might become another Ole Miss. school with a mix race population.
Dude you are a mountain of misinformation when it comes down to HBCUs. This is like the 3rd post of yours with 1/2 truths and whole lies that I've run across. Usually there's 0 HBCU presence on this board so it goes unchecked but dude stop.
Then, why are there any HBCUs in FBS if they are supposed to be equals to the others?
No this is about the lies that you've posted on this board. Let's go through them.
1. Alabama State does not desire to go FBS. We have not had any serious discussions about moving nor have we done ANY feasibility studies.
2. When did ANYONE from FAMU say that they wanted to "shed the HBCU image"?
3. When did JSU start not being considered an HBCU? JSUs white population has always bounced between 6-7.5% which is where it still is today. School demographics doesn't determine an HBCU which is what you seem to think is the case.
Like I said previously, stop making up stuff and passing it off as fact.
(04-13-2017 02:02 PM)GreenHornet33 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-13-2017 01:16 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ] (04-13-2017 12:16 PM)GreenHornet33 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-13-2017 11:46 AM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ] (04-13-2017 08:26 AM)arkstfan Wrote: [ -> ]Back when the whole prop 48 thing was being debated the SWAC and MEAC were strong opponents because they argued it interfered with their academic mission serving students who had impaired academic backgrounds and argued that the testing was racially biased.
I really thought at the time that if they believed it was interfering with their mission that they should have considered NAIA membership where the eligibility standards would be consistent with their admission practices.
The ego factor of being Division I results in schools aligning in ways that don't fit who they are as an institution.
Ego factor or not, but the HBCUs have been think of as being not as equals to the other universities which is why they are struggling. Tennessee State might be the only one doing all right not being in an HBCU conference. I think Florida A&M wanted to shed the HBCU image to join the Sun Belt, but backed out.
Alabama State wants to go to FBS as well and tried to talk to the SBC to let them in, but with South Alabama and Troy in the conference, they will not be let in. The only HBCUs that I could see be let in are Jackson State, Tennessee State, Florida A&M and Bethune-Cookman since they do not have a presence in those states.
Jackson State could fill the Mississippi hole in the SBC. Plus, Jackson State is not really considered a HBCU anymore with them enrolling white kids. They might become another Ole Miss. school with a mix race population.
Dude you are a mountain of misinformation when it comes down to HBCUs. This is like the 3rd post of yours with 1/2 truths and whole lies that I've run across. Usually there's 0 HBCU presence on this board so it goes unchecked but dude stop.
Then, why are there any HBCUs in FBS if they are supposed to be equals to the others?
No this is about the lies that you've posted on this board. Let's go through them.
1. Alabama State does not desire to go FBS. We have not had any serious discussions about moving nor have we done ANY feasibility studies.
2. When did ANYONE from FAMU say that they wanted to "shed the HBCU image"?
3. When did JSU start not being considered an HBCU? JSUs white population has always bounced between 6-7.5% which is where it still is today. School demographics doesn't determine an HBCU which is what you seem to think is the case.
Like I said previously, stop making up stuff and passing it off as fact.
The info about Alabama State came up before Georgia State was invited to the SBC. The reason is that what people posted on the news website of the local paper there said something to the fact about Alabama State was talking to SBC about membership. Unless, someone gave that reporter false information? Than, that could be the case. A lot of misinformation have been posted on legit news sites about a sports team and all that. Alabama State does have an FBS size ready stadium if they ever do go to FBS.
Why about Florida A&M? Because they were invited to join FBS and SBC in the early 2000. The first year in transition, they reversed themselves and SBC wound up with a sucky FIU and FAU teams. They would have shed off the HBCU image if they continued on to join the SBC.
Why Jackson State not be considered hardly an HBCU? The reason is they have more of white students enrolled than many of the other HBCUs which seems they are not hurting with enrollment. There are many other students who are not black or white that goes there as well. I am not looking at just the black or white issues with the schools. I am looking at all that make up the population of the campus as students.
(04-13-2017 04:24 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ] (04-13-2017 02:02 PM)GreenHornet33 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-13-2017 01:16 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ] (04-13-2017 12:16 PM)GreenHornet33 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-13-2017 11:46 AM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]Ego factor or not, but the HBCUs have been think of as being not as equals to the other universities which is why they are struggling. Tennessee State might be the only one doing all right not being in an HBCU conference. I think Florida A&M wanted to shed the HBCU image to join the Sun Belt, but backed out.
Alabama State wants to go to FBS as well and tried to talk to the SBC to let them in, but with South Alabama and Troy in the conference, they will not be let in. The only HBCUs that I could see be let in are Jackson State, Tennessee State, Florida A&M and Bethune-Cookman since they do not have a presence in those states.
Jackson State could fill the Mississippi hole in the SBC. Plus, Jackson State is not really considered a HBCU anymore with them enrolling white kids. They might become another Ole Miss. school with a mix race population.
Dude you are a mountain of misinformation when it comes down to HBCUs. This is like the 3rd post of yours with 1/2 truths and whole lies that I've run across. Usually there's 0 HBCU presence on this board so it goes unchecked but dude stop.
Then, why are there any HBCUs in FBS if they are supposed to be equals to the others?
No this is about the lies that you've posted on this board. Let's go through them.
1. Alabama State does not desire to go FBS. We have not had any serious discussions about moving nor have we done ANY feasibility studies.
2. When did ANYONE from FAMU say that they wanted to "shed the HBCU image"?
3. When did JSU start not being considered an HBCU? JSUs white population has always bounced between 6-7.5% which is where it still is today. School demographics doesn't determine an HBCU which is what you seem to think is the case.
Like I said previously, stop making up stuff and passing it off as fact.
The info about Alabama State came up before Georgia State was invited to the SBC. The reason is that what people posted on the news website of the local paper there said something to the fact about Alabama State was talking to SBC about membership. Unless, someone gave that reporter false information? Than, that could be the case. A lot of misinformation have been posted on legit news sites about a sports team and all that. Alabama State does have an FBS size ready stadium if they ever do go to FBS.
Why about Florida A&M? Because they were invited to join FBS and SBC in the early 2000. The first year in transition, they reversed themselves and SBC wound up with a sucky FIU and FAU teams. They would have shed off the HBCU image if they continued on to join the SBC.
Why Jackson State not be considered hardly an HBCU? The reason is they have more of white students enrolled than many of the other HBCUs which seems they are not hurting with enrollment. There are many other students who are not black or white that goes there as well. I am not looking at just the black or white issues with the schools. I am looking at all that make up the population of the campus as students.
https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/...diversity/
Jackson State as of September 2016 has a white student population of 4.5% which is lower than SWAC members Prairie View(5.3%), Texas Southern(4.9%), Alabama A&M(7.2%), and Alabama State(6.3%). Tennessee State, Winston-Salem State, North Carolina Central, North Carolina A&T, Kentucky State, West Virginia State, Bluefield State, and Norfolk State all white student body populations over 10%. JSU is not even in the top half of HBCUs as far as diversity. Also being an HBCU is a FEDERAL DESIGNATION not based on the demographics of the school or what conference a school plays sports in. West Virginia State and Bluefield State are two HBCUs that are majority white.