FSU looked BAAAAD on Saturday....granted, Lamar Jackson can make you look bad, but the effort given by FSU was lacking...
Chad Kelly is taking some heat now, and he should....he took over as DC for 2014. The FSU defenses under him don't look good...they aren't sharp, attacking defenses. Most of the time they look lost....they got blown out by Oregon a few years ago, and now by Louisville.
The O-Line looks bad, and Trickett has been taking heat as well...
The whole team looks lethargic...they were able to pull a rabbit out of the hat vs. Ole Miss, but not this week. You can't win playing like that....
I wonder how much the stupid Showtime documentary is affecting everything as well....this team has no leaders. Francois is too young and doesn't have the same fire Winston had...FSU looks like they're rebuilding this year, when in fact they returned nearly all the offensive starters and just pulled in a monster recruiting class.....
Next up is USF....FSU needs to right the ship and start playing real football. Jimbo needs to start yelling at some people before this team loses to USF, Miami, Clemson, etc.
Charles Kelly, not Chad Kelly, just for clarity.
Obviously, a lot of things go wrong in a loss like that.
Here's my biggest concern...
Every year Jimbo has given us a pretty good idea going into the season what he he thinks he has. It's coded, but it's not that hard to read. And every year...it pretty much plays out as Jimbo indicated it would.
This year, all signs from Jimbo were that this team was pretty special. We wouldn't have Showtime in if he didn't think so, but overall the tone of his comments indicated this team was ready for prime time.
They're clearly not. So my serious concern is not so much a bad loss as it is, how could there be so great a disconnect between what Jimbo thought we had, and what we do have?
JF is a control freak, for better or worse, and this year has just gotten worse. They've closed practices 100%. He doesn't let his assistants speak to the media, etc.
I have some fear that JF has so controlled the program with an iron grip that he's created a bit of an echo chamber. Is he able to evaluate his coaches objectively? Does he listen to his coaches, are they able to speak freely? He's a stubborn guy, and I have some fear that he has just so completely locked down the program that he's not hearing any other voice but his own.
If this loss is a sign of a cultural problem in the program, that's my stab at diagnosing it.
Hasn't FSU dealt with fairly significant injuries on defense as well? I thought I remembered hearing they had some depth issues in the secondary for injury reasons.
Am I the only one who thinks that FSU is going to thrash USF?
I think FSU curb stomps USF. FSU has two choices whither and die or work like hell and hope Louisville stumbles. Either way if FSU wins out they are in the conversation. I suspect they right that ship quick.
Dalvin Cook is afraid of contact with his shoulder. Jimbo claims he's just "rusty", but it's pretty obvious. If they want to be decent, FSU needs a solid rushing attack (and RB blocking in the pocket) because Francois is not Winston, and everyone should have known that. Start giving Patrick 20 carries if Cook can't. Defensively, Kelly failed in 2014, did decently last season, and is failing this season. Might need to start thinking about a replacement.
(09-19-2016 11:46 AM)EvilVodka Wrote: [ -> ]FSU looked BAAAAD on Saturday....granted, Lamar Jackson can make you look bad, but the effort given by FSU was lacking...
Chad Kelly is taking some heat now, and he should....he took over as DC for 2014. The FSU defenses under him don't look good...they aren't sharp, attacking defenses. Most of the time they look lost....they got blown out by Oregon a few years ago, and now by Louisville.
The O-Line looks bad, and Trickett has been taking heat as well...
The whole team looks lethargic...they were able to pull a rabbit out of the hat vs. Ole Miss, but not this week. You can't win playing like that....
I wonder how much the stupid Showtime documentary is affecting everything as well....this team has no leaders. Francois is too young and doesn't have the same fire Winston had...FSU looks like they're rebuilding this year, when in fact they returned nearly all the offensive starters and just pulled in a monster recruiting class.....
Next up is USF....FSU needs to right the ship and start playing real football. Jimbo needs to start yelling at some people before this team loses to USF, Miami, Clemson, etc.
ND went 10-2 last year with the Showtime documentary. So, I would not use that as an excuse.
No Showtime at ND this year and the Irish are 1-2. Send them back to South Bend......
(09-19-2016 12:56 PM)Lou_C Wrote: [ -> ]Obviously, a lot of things go wrong in a loss like that.
Every year Jimbo has given us a pretty good idea going into the season what he he thinks he has. This year, all signs from Jimbo were that this team was pretty special.
They're clearly not.
Or ... maybe Louisville is that good.
(09-20-2016 09:17 AM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote: [ -> ] (09-19-2016 12:56 PM)Lou_C Wrote: [ -> ]Obviously, a lot of things go wrong in a loss like that.
Every year Jimbo has given us a pretty good idea going into the season what he he thinks he has. This year, all signs from Jimbo were that this team was pretty special.
They're clearly not.
Or ... maybe Louisville is that good.
Oh, there's no doubt Louisville is very good and maybe FSU was always going to lose that game. That's not really the issue.
It's the total breakdown in all facets, and repeats of things that were problems in the Ole Miss and even to an extent in the Charleston Southern game. Louisville is really really good. AND FSU has problems of it's own making as well. That's how you get 63-20 instead of say, 42-27 or something like that.
(09-20-2016 10:56 AM)Lou_C Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2016 09:17 AM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote: [ -> ] (09-19-2016 12:56 PM)Lou_C Wrote: [ -> ]Obviously, a lot of things go wrong in a loss like that.
Every year Jimbo has given us a pretty good idea going into the season what he he thinks he has. This year, all signs from Jimbo were that this team was pretty special.
They're clearly not.
Or ... maybe Louisville is that good.
Oh, there's no doubt Louisville is very good and maybe FSU was always going to lose that game. That's not really the issue.
It's the total breakdown in all facets, and repeats of things that were problems in the Ole Miss and even to an extent in the Charleston Southern game. Louisville is really really good. AND FSU has problems of it's own making as well. That's how you get 63-20 instead of say, 42-27 or something like that.
exactly...this thread isn't trying to discount Louisville at all
This is about repetitive FSU problems that have shown up in other games as well.
(09-19-2016 07:37 PM)bronconick Wrote: [ -> ]Dalvin Cook is afraid of contact with his shoulder. Jimbo claims he's just "rusty", but it's pretty obvious. If they want to be decent, FSU needs a solid rushing attack (and RB blocking in the pocket) because Francois is not Winston, and everyone should have known that. Start giving Patrick 20 carries if Cook can't. Defensively, Kelly failed in 2014, did decently last season, and is failing this season. Might need to start thinking about a replacement.
agreed
Patrick looks good to me...
And just my opinion, but the FSU D should be an attacking physical D, much like LSU and Alabama. #44 is the only one making plays as far as I'm concerned....where are the LBs? where is the aggression?
(09-19-2016 07:37 PM)bronconick Wrote: [ -> ]Dalvin Cook is afraid of contact with his shoulder. Jimbo claims he's just "rusty", but it's pretty obvious. If they want to be decent, FSU needs a solid rushing attack (and RB blocking in the pocket) because Francois is not Winston, and everyone should have known that. Start giving Patrick 20 carries if Cook can't. Defensively, Kelly failed in 2014, did decently last season, and is failing this season. Might need to start thinking about a replacement.
If Cook is playing scared, he's going to cost himself a lot of money come draft time. There's not a big market for timid running backs in the NFL. Teams are more likely to take a chance on an explosive runner who got hurt than on one who plays like he's afraid to get hurt.
(09-19-2016 12:56 PM)Lou_C Wrote: [ -> ]Obviously, a lot of things go wrong in a loss like that.
Here's my biggest concern...
Every year Jimbo has given us a pretty good idea going into the season what he he thinks he has. It's coded, but it's not that hard to read. And every year...it pretty much plays out as Jimbo indicated it would.
This year, all signs from Jimbo were that this team was pretty special. We wouldn't have Showtime in if he didn't think so, but overall the tone of his comments indicated this team was ready for prime time.
They're clearly not. So my serious concern is not so much a bad loss as it is, how could there be so great a disconnect between what Jimbo thought we had, and what we do have?
JF is a control freak, for better or worse, and this year has just gotten worse. They've closed practices 100%. He doesn't let his assistants speak to the media, etc.
I have some fear that JF has so controlled the program with an iron grip that he's created a bit of an echo chamber. Is he able to evaluate his coaches objectively? Does he listen to his coaches, are they able to speak freely? He's a stubborn guy, and I have some fear that he has just so completely locked down the program that he's not hearing any other voice but his own.
If this loss is a sign of a cultural problem in the program, that's my stab at diagnosing it.
Comebacks make for great stories, but it's a terrible trend to develop if you're a talented team. It shows a lack of focus coming into the game and sooner or later you're going to come up against an opponent with the firepower to keep you down. That's what happened Saturday and you could see it in the body language of the FSU players. They didn't like what was happening but this time it was too late. They were off balance and they couldn't stop it.
(09-20-2016 11:22 AM)EvilVodka Wrote: [ -> ] (09-19-2016 07:37 PM)bronconick Wrote: [ -> ]Dalvin Cook is afraid of contact with his shoulder. Jimbo claims he's just "rusty", but it's pretty obvious. If they want to be decent, FSU needs a solid rushing attack (and RB blocking in the pocket) because Francois is not Winston, and everyone should have known that. Start giving Patrick 20 carries if Cook can't. Defensively, Kelly failed in 2014, did decently last season, and is failing this season. Might need to start thinking about a replacement.
agreed
Patrick looks good to me...
And just my opinion, but the FSU D should be an attacking physical D, much like LSU and Alabama. #44 is the only one making plays as far as I'm concerned....where are the LBs? where is the aggression?
On the question of aggression I think you'll see it more against other opponents. IMO Jackson's skill set is going to make most linebackers and defensive ends seem passive. He's a guy who's difficult to contain even when you've made the perfect playcall. If you miss on a blitz or break contain on a pass rush he'll murder you.
Most good DCs know: if they're going to score anyway, attack the backfield! Not like FSU was really containing UL.
Sent from my HTC Desire 626 using
CSNbbs mobile app
(09-20-2016 11:58 AM)L-yes Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2016 11:22 AM)EvilVodka Wrote: [ -> ] (09-19-2016 07:37 PM)bronconick Wrote: [ -> ]Dalvin Cook is afraid of contact with his shoulder. Jimbo claims he's just "rusty", but it's pretty obvious. If they want to be decent, FSU needs a solid rushing attack (and RB blocking in the pocket) because Francois is not Winston, and everyone should have known that. Start giving Patrick 20 carries if Cook can't. Defensively, Kelly failed in 2014, did decently last season, and is failing this season. Might need to start thinking about a replacement.
agreed
Patrick looks good to me...
And just my opinion, but the FSU D should be an attacking physical D, much like LSU and Alabama. #44 is the only one making plays as far as I'm concerned....where are the LBs? where is the aggression?
On the question of aggression I think you'll see it more against other opponents. IMO Jackson's skill set is going to make most linebackers and defensive ends seem passive. He's a guy who's difficult to contain even when you've made the perfect playcall. If you miss on a blitz or break contain on a pass rush he'll murder you.
There's some truth to this. Being aggressive plays into the Cards hands, that's what makes him so difficult to defend. The TV replays consistently showed how Jackson watched the flow of the defense on handoffs. If the linebackers leaned to the direction of the RB then he kept it & had a huge hole to run to. If they stayed home then he handed it off to the RB for a big gain. If you send the rush then he either passes over it or he is athletic enough to elude the blitz & then by the time the secondary gets there he's already gained 30+ yards. You have to pick your poison. FSU, it seems, tried to take away the passing game. I'm not saying that FSU doesn't have issues though. 63-10 shouldn't happen.
(09-20-2016 12:23 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2016 11:58 AM)L-yes Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2016 11:22 AM)EvilVodka Wrote: [ -> ] (09-19-2016 07:37 PM)bronconick Wrote: [ -> ]Dalvin Cook is afraid of contact with his shoulder. Jimbo claims he's just "rusty", but it's pretty obvious. If they want to be decent, FSU needs a solid rushing attack (and RB blocking in the pocket) because Francois is not Winston, and everyone should have known that. Start giving Patrick 20 carries if Cook can't. Defensively, Kelly failed in 2014, did decently last season, and is failing this season. Might need to start thinking about a replacement.
agreed
Patrick looks good to me...
And just my opinion, but the FSU D should be an attacking physical D, much like LSU and Alabama. #44 is the only one making plays as far as I'm concerned....where are the LBs? where is the aggression?
On the question of aggression I think you'll see it more against other opponents. IMO Jackson's skill set is going to make most linebackers and defensive ends seem passive. He's a guy who's difficult to contain even when you've made the perfect playcall. If you miss on a blitz or break contain on a pass rush he'll murder you.
There's some truth to this. Being aggressive plays into the Cards hands, that's what makes him so difficult to defend. The TV replays consistently showed how Jackson watched the flow of the defense on handoffs. If the linebackers leaned to the direction of the RB then he kept it & had a huge hole to run to. If they stayed home then he handed it off to the RB for a big gain. If you send the rush then he either passes over it or he is athletic enough to elude the blitz & then by the time the secondary gets there he's already gained 30+ yards. You have to pick your poison. FSU, it seems, tried to take away the passing game. I'm not saying that FSU doesn't have issues though. 63-10 shouldn't happen.
I think that when the Noles are behind, but still have time to make a comeback, they go to another gear on offense. But if defeat seems inevitable, they seem to give up (see also Houston in the bowl last year). I wouldn't read into the final score that UL is that much better (especially if you might use that to guide future predictions, as in the Clemson game). An FSU win over Clemson and a Clemson win over Louisville, and you have a 3 way tie for the division. Don't write the Noles off just yet.
BTW, if they are all 7-1 in the league, what is the tie breaker?
(09-20-2016 01:10 PM)ken d Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2016 12:23 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2016 11:58 AM)L-yes Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2016 11:22 AM)EvilVodka Wrote: [ -> ] (09-19-2016 07:37 PM)bronconick Wrote: [ -> ]Dalvin Cook is afraid of contact with his shoulder. Jimbo claims he's just "rusty", but it's pretty obvious. If they want to be decent, FSU needs a solid rushing attack (and RB blocking in the pocket) because Francois is not Winston, and everyone should have known that. Start giving Patrick 20 carries if Cook can't. Defensively, Kelly failed in 2014, did decently last season, and is failing this season. Might need to start thinking about a replacement.
agreed
Patrick looks good to me...
And just my opinion, but the FSU D should be an attacking physical D, much like LSU and Alabama. #44 is the only one making plays as far as I'm concerned....where are the LBs? where is the aggression?
On the question of aggression I think you'll see it more against other opponents. IMO Jackson's skill set is going to make most linebackers and defensive ends seem passive. He's a guy who's difficult to contain even when you've made the perfect playcall. If you miss on a blitz or break contain on a pass rush he'll murder you.
There's some truth to this. Being aggressive plays into the Cards hands, that's what makes him so difficult to defend. The TV replays consistently showed how Jackson watched the flow of the defense on handoffs. If the linebackers leaned to the direction of the RB then he kept it & had a huge hole to run to. If they stayed home then he handed it off to the RB for a big gain. If you send the rush then he either passes over it or he is athletic enough to elude the blitz & then by the time the secondary gets there he's already gained 30+ yards. You have to pick your poison. FSU, it seems, tried to take away the passing game. I'm not saying that FSU doesn't have issues though. 63-10 shouldn't happen.
I think that when the Noles are behind, but still have time to make a comeback, they go to another gear on offense. But if defeat seems inevitable, they seem to give up (see also Houston in the bowl last year). I wouldn't read into the final score that UL is that much better (especially if you might use that to guide future predictions, as in the Clemson game). An FSU win over Clemson and a Clemson win over Louisville, and you have a 3 way tie for the division. Don't write the Noles off just yet.
BTW, if they are all 7-1 in the league, what is the tie breaker?
tie breaker is # of National Championships
(09-20-2016 12:23 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2016 11:58 AM)L-yes Wrote: [ -> ] (09-20-2016 11:22 AM)EvilVodka Wrote: [ -> ] (09-19-2016 07:37 PM)bronconick Wrote: [ -> ]Dalvin Cook is afraid of contact with his shoulder. Jimbo claims he's just "rusty", but it's pretty obvious. If they want to be decent, FSU needs a solid rushing attack (and RB blocking in the pocket) because Francois is not Winston, and everyone should have known that. Start giving Patrick 20 carries if Cook can't. Defensively, Kelly failed in 2014, did decently last season, and is failing this season. Might need to start thinking about a replacement.
agreed
Patrick looks good to me...
And just my opinion, but the FSU D should be an attacking physical D, much like LSU and Alabama. #44 is the only one making plays as far as I'm concerned....where are the LBs? where is the aggression?
On the question of aggression I think you'll see it more against other opponents. IMO Jackson's skill set is going to make most linebackers and defensive ends seem passive. He's a guy who's difficult to contain even when you've made the perfect playcall. If you miss on a blitz or break contain on a pass rush he'll murder you.
There's some truth to this. Being aggressive plays into the Cards hands, that's what makes him so difficult to defend. The TV replays consistently showed how Jackson watched the flow of the defense on handoffs. If the linebackers leaned to the direction of the RB then he kept it & had a huge hole to run to. If they stayed home then he handed it off to the RB for a big gain. If you send the rush then he either passes over it or he is athletic enough to elude the blitz & then by the time the secondary gets there he's already gained 30+ yards. You have to pick your poison. FSU, it seems, tried to take away the passing game. I'm not saying that FSU doesn't have issues though. 63-10 shouldn't happen.
Honestly, in regards to the Louisville offense....they sort of remind me of '05 Texas