CSNbbs

(03-22-2018 04:39 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote: [ -> ]Trust me...we have a couple of connections that can help if we are truly interested in Kostas.

He's going pro.

(03-22-2018 04:54 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2018 04:39 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote: [ -> ]Trust me...we have a couple of connections that can help if we are truly interested in Kostas.

He's going pro.

Ok...I heard testing the water and could transfer if it is not a positive response.

(03-22-2018 04:39 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote: [ -> ]Trust me...we have a couple of connections that can help if we are truly interested in Kostas.

Since you evidently don't want to be specific about the "couple of connections" could you maybe give us a generalization ... players currently on ODU's roster, ODU coaches, family or friends in the area, etc.?

Giles....Paschall is every bit of 6’9 255. Seems like you choose to leave out details that could only hurt your argument.

(03-22-2018 04:26 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2018 01:33 PM)JJMonarch Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2018 01:14 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]I used basketball reference because I really didn't care if he's listed at 6-8 or 7-4 and I'm not going to spend the time searching several avenues and reconciling a number that is meaningless. Carver is listed at like 6-7 or something crazy, fwiw.

Yes, Purdue has multiple big men that can play. So does Kentucky and Texas A&M. Many of the others on the list do not. If Wagner goes down, Michigan is not going to get much from their big(s).

I don't think we can blame only scheme on the freshman not playing. Some of it was them just not being good enough to get into the rotation as freshman.

Exactly, we pushed the ball at every opportunity. Even in the conference tournament game we lost, the sideline commentator mentioned after a timeout that Jones was telling his team in the huddle to push the ball more when the opportunity was there. He was happy with the defense we were playing but wanted us to be more aggressive on offense. Gilesfan is exactly right about the playing time our freshmen guards received. Whether we agree with Jones or not, the coach believed we were a better team on the floor with the guys he played. The scheme was not the reason our freshmen didn't play against WKY.

If you failed to see Jeff's "scheme" in play during the last game against WKU then I'm not likely to change your mind, however that doesn't mean it wasn't evident.

Exhibit (A) - Jeff starts the game in a zone defense - which he has admitted this season he isn't nearly as comfortable playing - and ODU jumps out to a 5-7 point lead in the first 7-10 minutes. He then reverts to what he is comfortable with - Jeff's defense scheme - and switches to a man-to-man. Not only does everyone realize that WKU plays much worse offensively against a zone, but it was providing noticeable results, yet Jeff abandoned it anyway. WKU blitzed ODU the remainder of the half, got us in foul trouble with their drives inside, and led by several points going into halftime. To his credit, he opened with the zone again in the 2nd half and eventually overcame the halftime deficit to take a 1 point lead. Still lost, but it is a real head scratcher as to why he left what was working, especially since he had yet to defeat WKU in two prior tries playing mostly his man-to-man. He couldn't get away from his comfort zone (no pun intended).

Exhibit (B) - How many 3 point attempts did ODU make against WKU in the Conference Tournament (very few)? What was their shooting percentage from 3 that game (pathetic)? How many points did their anemic offence put up (49)? Did ODU's best three point shooters play in the game (NO)? Why not, especially since the offense was struggling to score? The answer is fairly simple - they don't fit Jeff's defensive man-to-man scheme since they apparently don't play it as well as he wants them to. Because of that he doesn't play them. If they were at Marshall each would have possibly averaged double figures and gone to the NCAA Tournament because they play a different scheme where 3 point shooting is a highly desired commodity. Yes, Jeff's scheme did play into their lack of playing time. It's not all Jeff's fault though since he has played the same style since he has been here and they should know that coming in. Jeff did give the guys more leeway in increasing the tempo, but we in no way could be confused with playing like Marshall offensively. They are two totally different styles/schemes that puts a premium on different skill sets.

You are correct in that I am not changing my mind and I am sure you are not changing yours. However, I am fairly certain both of our freshman guards would not have averaged double figures playing for Marshall. Of course that is debatable but Marshall had two very solid guards in Burkes and Elmore. I think they both averaged over 20 PPG so I doubt Hueitt and Godwin would have averaged double figures. Plus you admitted yourself that we played a lot of zone against Western so the man to man scheme is not why our freshmen didn't get into the game. As I mentioned in my first comments, we might not agree with who Jones played but the bottom line is he thought we had a better chance to win with the players he put on the floor. Our offense went south in that game, no doubt about that. Would I have liked to see him throw in Godwin and Hueitt to see what they could do? Absolutely, but that didn't happen. I think one of his schemes is that we hit some threes and knock down our foul shots with the players that got us there. Easy to sit back now and be critical. We all watched our Monarchs all season and everyone within earshot heard him telling our players all year to push the ball. Heck, when Hueitt and Godwin were in the game he ran plays for them it seemed on almost every possession. But for anyone to suggest they would average double figures for Marshall is highly questionable.

The Marshall fans would be the first to tell you that they didn't have a very deep bench. The TV announcers even said it during their game against WVA. For a team that puts up 3 pointers by the dozens each game it's not a stretch to think that Godwin and Hueitt could have knocked down one or two of them each half on average with maybe one or two 2 pointers or a foul shot or two mixed in as long at they were a part of the regular rotation. Even in Jones' system, Hueitt got into a game earlier in the season for no more than 10 minutes and made four 3 pointers. I can't even imagine how many he could make standing there in the corner waiting for a kick out from Elmore for an open 3. Same thing for Godwin. Yes, I believe they would have been welcomed by Dantoni and gotten to set up at the 3 point line in the Marshall offense this season. Frankly I would be surprised under those circumstances if they were stuck on the bench.

As far as them not getting into the game even though Jones was playing zone, I have to believe that it is because Jones wanted to feel comfortable switching back to his preferred man-to-man on the fly at any point.

It's not Monday morning quarterbacking to see that the outside game is non-existent, at least by halftime. Assessing those things is what coaches are paid big money to do. I agree that Jones put the players out on the court that he felt gave him and ODU the best chance of winning. That too is what coaches are paid to do and his job is the one that is (or at least should be) on the line depending on his success in making those decisions, not mine. After losing to WKU three times this season it would appear that Jeff is still trying to figure out the right decisions to get that job done successfully. Any idea why he abandoned the zone midway through the first half after it had given him a working margin up to that point in time? My wife would tell you that it is not Monday morning quarterbacking when I was screaming at the TV late in the 1st half during the game for him to get them back in the zone. WKU had been eating them alive and was on a 10 or 12 point run at the time.

(03-22-2018 06:38 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ]The Marshall fans would be the first to tell you that they didn't have a very deep bench. The TV announcers even said it during their game against WVA. For a team that puts up 3 pointers by the dozens each game it's not a stretch to think that Godwin and Hueitt could have knocked down one or two of them each half on average with maybe one or two 2 pointers or a foul shot or two mixed in as long at they were a part of the regular rotation. Even in Jones' system, Hueitt got into a game earlier in the season for no more than 10 minutes and made four 3 pointers. I can't even imagine how many he could make standing there in the corner waiting for a kick out from Elmore for an open 3. Same thing for Godwin. Yes, I believe they would have been welcomed by Dantoni and gotten to set up at the 3 point line in the Marshall offense this season. Frankly I would be surprised under those circumstances if they were stuck on the bench.

As far as them not getting into the game even though Jones was playing zone, I have to believe that it is because Jones wanted to feel comfortable switching back to his preferred man-to-man on the fly at any point.

It's not Monday morning quarterbacking to see that the outside game is non-existent, at least by halftime. Assessing those things is what coaches are paid big money to do. I agree that Jones put the players out on the court that he felt gave him and ODU the best chance of winning. That too is what coaches are paid to do and his job is the one that is (or at least should be) on the line depending on his success in making those decisions, not mine. After losing to WKU three times this season it would appear that Jeff is still trying to figure out the right decisions to get that job done successfully. Any idea why he abandoned the zone midway through the first half after it had given him a working margin up to that point in time? My wife would tell you that it is not Monday morning quarterbacking when I was screaming at the TV late in the 1st half during the game for him to get them back in the zone. WKU had been eating them alive and was on a 10 or 12 point run at the time.

I was screaming with you my friend. And I love the game that Hueitt and Godwin bring. I have been watching ODU BB a long time and quite frankly I have not been as excited about any freshman wing player ( that's what I'll call Hueitt and Godwin for right now) since Petey Sessoms as I have Hueitt and Godwin. I am not trying to say they will be that good but just the electricity they bring into the game from the fans is something I have not seen since Sessoms. I am not counting our big men like Loughton or Lee but Sessoms had that "it" factor as a wing player that these two kids
have. I understand your frustration and I see your point but Elmore and Burkes were the best backcourt in the league. I am sure the Marshall coach would have loved to have our two freshmen on his team but I still doubt they would have averaged double figures. Just my opinion. They can be just as effective next year and beyond under our system at ODU.

(03-22-2018 06:02 PM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ]Giles....Paschall is every bit of 6’9 255. Seems like you choose to leave out details that could only hurt your argument.

I used basketball reference and listed him as a big player. Im not sure what your point is. Him and spellman are there big guys. You guys are concentrating on semantics for some reason

Marshall had Elmore, Burks, Watson, and West in the backcourt. While they shoot a lot of threes (west shot 41%, watson 36%) they also like guys that can drive to the hoop. That isnsomething beither Hueitt or Godwin do at this point. Im not sure either would have played that much as 5th guard.

“St. John’s transfer Tariq Owen is down to Maryland, Oklahoma State, Ohio State, Ole Miss, Texas Tech, Western Kentucky, ODU & VCU.”

(03-22-2018 07:36 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2018 06:02 PM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ]Giles....Paschall is every bit of 6’9 255. Seems like you choose to leave out details that could only hurt your argument.

I used basketball reference and listed him as a big player. Im not sure what your point is. Him and spellman are there big guys. You guys are concentrating on semantics for some reason

Because you’re trying to justify that teams win without size, and that’s true, but it has to be the right system for a team to win without size.

(03-22-2018 07:42 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]Marshall had Elmore, Burks, Watson, and West in the backcourt. While they shoot a lot of threes (west shot 41%, watson 36%) they also like guys that can drive to the hoop. That isnsomething beither Hueitt or Godwin do at this point. Im not sure either would have played that much as 5th guard.

What Godwin and Hueitt can do is not likely something that any of us can factually say at this point based upon the very limited amount of time they have been shown to us. One thing we do know is that both were recruited primarily due to their 3 point shooting prowess, and Dantoni loves those kind of players.

(03-22-2018 08:55 PM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2018 07:36 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2018 06:02 PM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ]Giles....Paschall is every bit of 6’9 255. Seems like you choose to leave out details that could only hurt your argument.

I used basketball reference and listed him as a big player. Im not sure what your point is. Him and spellman are there big guys. You guys are concentrating on semantics for some reason

Because you’re trying to justify that teams win without size, and that’s true, but it has to be the right system for a team to win without size.

That is really it in a nutshell to me too 757. I'm OK with ODU playing more like Marshall does, or like VCU does, but it has to be part of the coach's DNA to be successful and I don't see that it is a part of Jeff's DNA to play that style. That's not to say that he couldn't decide to change to that spread court, fast paced, drive and shoot 3's style, but like the saying goes ... I'm from Missouri, you'll have to show me.

You dont have to play fast to spread the court.

(03-22-2018 09:10 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ]but like the saying goes ... I'm from Missouri, you'll have to show me.

Preferred pronunciation, Ma-zu-rah or Mi-sa-ree?

(03-22-2018 09:00 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2018 07:42 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]Marshall had Elmore, Burks, Watson, and West in the backcourt. While they shoot a lot of threes (west shot 41%, watson 36%) they also like guys that can drive to the hoop. That isnsomething beither Hueitt or Godwin do at this point. Im not sure either would have played that much as 5th guard.

What Godwin and Hueitt can do is not likely something that any of us can factually say at this point based upon the very limited amount of time they have been shown to us. One thing we do know is that both were recruited primarily due to their 3 point shooting prowess, and Dantoni loves those kind of players.

COntrary to popular belief, but I would guess those 2 werent tearing it up in practice, earning playing time.

(03-22-2018 09:19 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2018 09:00 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2018 07:42 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]Marshall had Elmore, Burks, Watson, and West in the backcourt. While they shoot a lot of threes (west shot 41%, watson 36%) they also like guys that can drive to the hoop. That isnsomething beither Hueitt or Godwin do at this point. Im not sure either would have played that much as 5th guard.

What Godwin and Hueitt can do is not likely something that any of us can factually say at this point based upon the very limited amount of time they have been shown to us. One thing we do know is that both were recruited primarily due to their 3 point shooting prowess, and Dantoni loves those kind of players.

COntrary to popular belief, but I would guess those 2 werent tearing it up in practice, earning playing time.

Couldn't you realistically have just said that you guess they weren't doing as well at practice in the man-to-man defense as Jeff requires? Seems that Jeff's track record of playing non-offensive players Taylor and Baker for the past 3-4 years would tend to be significant evidence of where his priorities lie. He has to find some balance or ODU might end up finding itself in an important game where they fail to even score 50 points. Oh wait ... that just happened.

I remember reading in the Pilot how Godwin was draining 3 pointers from the corner in practice while playing on the scout team against the starters. Again, it would appear that end of the court carries far less weight in practice with Jeff. He probably just got upset with one of his starters at that practice (probably Randy) for letting Godwin score.

(03-22-2018 09:18 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2018 09:10 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ]but like the saying goes ... I'm from Missouri, you'll have to show me.

Preferred pronunciation, Ma-zu-rah or Mi-sa-ree?

LOL.

(03-22-2018 09:51 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2018 09:19 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2018 09:00 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2018 07:42 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]Marshall had Elmore, Burks, Watson, and West in the backcourt. While they shoot a lot of threes (west shot 41%, watson 36%) they also like guys that can drive to the hoop. That isnsomething beither Hueitt or Godwin do at this point. Im not sure either would have played that much as 5th guard.

What Godwin and Hueitt can do is not likely something that any of us can factually say at this point based upon the very limited amount of time they have been shown to us. One thing we do know is that both were recruited primarily due to their 3 point shooting prowess, and Dantoni loves those kind of players.

COntrary to popular belief, but I would guess those 2 werent tearing it up in practice, earning playing time.

Couldn't you realistically have just said that you guess they weren't doing as well at practice in the man-to-man defense as Jeff requires? Seems that Jeff's track record of playing non-offensive players Taylor and Baker for the past 3-4 years would tend to be significant evidence of where his priorities lie. He has to find some balance or ODU might end up finding itself in an important game where they fail to even score 50 points. Oh wait ... that just happened.

I remember reading in the Pilot how Godwin was draining 3 pointers from the corner in practice while playing on the scout team against the starters. Again, it would appear that end of the court carries far less weight in practice with Jeff. He probably just got upset with one of his starters at that practice (probably Randy) for letting Godwin score.

You seem to think its scheme related, I do not. I also do not believe they were killing it on the offensive end and just couldnt get in the game. Those 2 freshman will be fine, but that doesn mean they are hotshots from the start.

If anyone believed the freshman would have come in and lot it up offensively, they would have played.

(03-22-2018 10:09 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2018 09:51 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2018 09:19 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2018 09:00 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2018 07:42 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]Marshall had Elmore, Burks, Watson, and West in the backcourt. While they shoot a lot of threes (west shot 41%, watson 36%) they also like guys that can drive to the hoop. That isnsomething beither Hueitt or Godwin do at this point. Im not sure either would have played that much as 5th guard.

What Godwin and Hueitt can do is not likely something that any of us can factually say at this point based upon the very limited amount of time they have been shown to us. One thing we do know is that both were recruited primarily due to their 3 point shooting prowess, and Dantoni loves those kind of players.

COntrary to popular belief, but I would guess those 2 werent tearing it up in practice, earning playing time.

Couldn't you realistically have just said that you guess they weren't doing as well at practice in the man-to-man defense as Jeff requires? Seems that Jeff's track record of playing non-offensive players Taylor and Baker for the past 3-4 years would tend to be significant evidence of where his priorities lie. He has to find some balance or ODU might end up finding itself in an important game where they fail to even score 50 points. Oh wait ... that just happened.

I remember reading in the Pilot how Godwin was draining 3 pointers from the corner in practice while playing on the scout team against the starters. Again, it would appear that end of the court carries far less weight in practice with Jeff. He probably just got upset with one of his starters at that practice (probably Randy) for letting Godwin score.

You seem to think its scheme related, I do not. I also do not believe they were killing it on the offensive end and just couldnt get in the game. Those 2 freshman will be fine, but that doesn mean they are hotshots from the start.

If anyone believed the freshman would have come in and lot it up offensively, they would have played.

That's your opinion. Jeff's history at ODU tells a different story -

Name a strong defensive player at ODU that Jeff has ever played sparingly, or even as a reserve, while he instead played a much better offensive player at that position?

Also, there is a big gap between "lighting it up" and simply providing offense when it is much needed - as in 49 points. Why is it so often a choice between one extreme or another with you? The right answer is usually somewhere in the middle.

No one has said that they (Godwin or Hueitt) are hotshots (whatever that is supposed to mean).