(05-27-2016 01:55 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]Hell, I disagree with nearly everything he interprets from his reading of the Bible...lol
And I disagree with you on may things too apparently (according to your words) , but everyone is free to read it and make up their own mind. My views are pretty A typical for those who believe in a rapture and coming 1000 year Kingdom. I'm just able to explain it in detail using scripture.
If you disagree with what I posted in this thread, you are free to explain why using the Scriptures, or you can just disagree and not worry about it.
Everyone can read it and decide for themselves.
That is what I want more than anything. If people aren't studying these passages for themselves, then it does them very little good.
(05-27-2016 01:55 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]Hell, I disagree with nearly everything he interprets from his reading of the Bible...lol
And I disagree with you on may things too apparently (according to your words) , but everyone is free to read it and make up their own mind. My views are pretty A typical for those who believe in a rapture and coming 1000 year Kingdom. I'm just able to explain it in detail using scripture.
If you disagree with what I posted in this thread, you are free to explain why using the Scriptures, or you can just disagree and not worry about it.
Everyone can read it and decide for themselves.
That is what I want more than anything.
It's just a personal choice with me...I don't put too much thought into the end times. I live for today, in the right way, and have faith that I will be saved when the time comes. I don't have any real desire to try and figure out why and/or how and/or where it comes.
(05-27-2016 02:11 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]It's just a personal choice with me...I don't put too much thought into the end times. I live for today, in the right way, and have faith that I will be saved when the time comes. I don't have any real desire to try and figure out why and/or how and/or where it comes.
(05-27-2016 02:11 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]It's just a personal choice with me...I don't put too much thought into the end times. I live for today, in the right way, and have faith that I will be saved when the time comes. I don't have any real desire to try and figure out why and/or how and/or where it comes.
Romans 10:9
I try to live my life by the entire Word of God, not just the verses I agree with the most or make my life easiest. Its not easy, but its far more rewarding imo.
Peter said this about prophecy:
2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto you do well that ye take heed,
What Jesus said about the prophecies in Revelation :
Revelation 22:7 Behold I am coming quickly; blessed is he who keeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
And Paul says this:
2 Timothy 3:16-17 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Consider Jesus' words to the Jewish leaders:
Matthew 16:2-3 When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red. And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
(05-27-2016 02:20 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote: [ -> ]What Jesus said about the prophecies in Revelation :
Revelation 22:7 Behold I am coming quickly; blessed is he who keeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
You'd be hard-pressed to get many to come to any sort of consensus on what it all means....every word of it...as you appear to be want to do...but Godspeed to you and lots of luck!
Most Christians do just fine with their life and with their faith but not agreeing on or with any exact interpretation of it.
(05-27-2016 04:00 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]You'd be hard-pressed to get many to come to any sort of consensus on what it all means....every word of it...as you appear to be want to do...but Godspeed to you and lots of luck!
If that is what you honestly read in these posts, then its no wonder you disagree with almost everything I say. You are struggling to interpret even MY words, much less the Word of God.
As has been posted multiple times now in this thread, the point here is to help gather the scriptures on this particular issue and help get others to study it and decide for themselves. The only way people can see and believe these things is to read it for themselves in the scriptures. For those who already agree with the rapture, it helps them gather more scriptures on it.
If you would like to actually discuss the topic of the thread using the scriptures, then I would welcome that.
Revelation 1:7
"Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen.
The word rapture is not used in the Bible and I don't believe that the end times will involve a great disappearing act due to the scripture at the beginning of Revelation. For the most part I view Revelation as symbolism. Jesus has already established his kingdom and it is reigning within you if you are a believer.
Luke 17:20-21
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
(05-29-2016 08:13 PM)Dawgxas Wrote: [ -> ]Revelation 1:7
"Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen.
The word rapture is not used in the Bible and I don't believe that the end times will involve a great disappearing act due to the scripture at the beginning of Revelation. For the most part I view Revelation as symbolism. Jesus has already established his kingdom and it is reigning within you if you are a believer.
Luke 17:20-21
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
The word "trinity" isn't in the bible either, but it is clearly taught from Genesis through Revelation..
Thew Word "Bible" is not in the bible, but I don;t hear any complaints about the word.
The Word "monotheism" is not in the bible either, but it is clearly taught on every single page.
The word "rapture" is from the latin translation of the greek word "harpazo" which is used multiple times in the "pre trib rapture" verses.
Every living eye will see the Lord at the 2nd coming, but not at the rapture. (see post #3 for those scriptures)
The Church is already in Heaven from Rev 4 onward as seen in Rev 5:9-10 and 19:1-14. (see post #4)
The Kingdom of God is within us now, the Kingdom of Heaven is yet to come.
Here are some really cool OT verses as well.
Zephaniah 2:2-3
1 Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired;
2 Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you. 3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.
Psalm 27:4-5
4 One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple.
5 For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.
Psalm 31:20 Thou shalt hide them in the secret of thy presence from the pride of man: thou shalt keep them secretly in a pavilion from the strife of tongues.
Isaiah 26:19-20
19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. 20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
John 14:2-3 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
No disrespect to NASA's recent discoveries, but the Bible recorded 2000 years ago that the heavens are full of other planets.
Hebrews 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the WORLDS;
Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the WORLDS were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
(05-31-2016 11:20 AM)uofmcamaro Wrote: [ -> ]eric, I'm gonna go ahead and say that people don't take so much issue with the scriptures you present as to the way you present.
I don't see how anything here should be a problem. I laid out specific passages from books all over the bible and repeatedly suggested people need to study it for themselves.
The whole idea is for people to read and study these scriptures first hand, not just hear yet another opinion on it. Its one thing to have an opinion, its another to understand why in the scriptures.
No one is supposed to be deciding based on my opinion, they are supposed to study and understand it for themselves.
(05-31-2016 01:54 PM)Hood-rich Wrote: [ -> ]It would help to organize the verses you think support each viewpoint. You're leaving them open to a lot of interpretation, which might be your point.
They are absolutely organized. And approach the subject from multiple angles.
Here is a the layout:
Post #2 focuses on the more blunt pre wrath/rapture verses of all.
Post #3 is focused on the two key passages everyone always points to in 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thessalonians and the focus on a separate Resurrection of the just believers here.
Post #4 dives into showing how the Church is standing in heaven wearing crowns before the first seal is ever broken.
Post #5 is just about the two separate harvests depicted in Revelation 14.
Post #6 is focused on showing the Church returning with Christ for the second coming, not waiting on his arrival.
Post #13 shows the 3 different 2nd coming prophecies in Matthew chapters 13, 24 and 25
I'm asking people to STUDY these for themselves. So stop worrying so much about how I personally see it and study it for yourself. There is a lot of material here, its not designed to convince you just by reading this thread.
But what's been the problem Eric, at least for me, is that when I/we do study them and reach different conclusions, you seem to judge us as either ignorant, agenda driven, or not Christian.
(05-31-2016 03:16 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]But what's been the problem Eric, at least for me, is that when I/we do study them and reach different conclusions, you seem to judge us as either ignorant, agenda driven, or not Christian.
No, I said you personally were a far left agenda driven poster. Not other people. Your reputation for political trolling in the spin room speaks for itself.
If you want to actually discuss the subject of the thread, I would welcome it. If you just want to keep talking about me personally, no thanks.
If I am way off base on something scripturally here, then it should not be hard to illustrate at all.
(05-31-2016 03:16 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]But what's been the problem Eric, at least for me, is that when I/we do study them and reach different conclusions, you seem to judge us as either ignorant, agenda driven, or not Christian.
If I am way off base on something scripturally here, then it should not be hard to illustrate at all.
I've done that several times...but you're incredulous. Sorry.
Honestly, I don't give this kind of thing a whole lot of thought. I know where I'm going when I die.
I do have a theory on the "asleep in Christ" / dead rising. My theory is that since God must exist outside of what we know as time and space that he sees all things as they're happening at once. When we die our souls go straight to heaven or hell. The Bible is clear about that. There is no purgatory or waiting room. In our reality we die and a certain amount of "earth time" passes before we're risen up. In His reality it happens instantaneously from the moment we die as His perspective is seeing all things at once. Basically after we die our souls make that jump into His reality (and through our time years later) when he is returning.
Not sure how much sense that makes. It's hard for me to describe in words.
(06-01-2016 12:04 PM)Hood-rich Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, I don't give this kind of thing a whole lot of thought. I know where I'm going when I die.
I do have a theory on the "asleep in Christ" / dead rising. My theory is that since God must exist outside of what we know as time and space that he sees all things as they're happening at once. When we die our souls go straight to heaven or hell. The Bible is clear about that. There is no purgatory or waiting room. In our reality we die and a certain amount of "earth time" passes before we're risen up. In His reality it happens instantaneously from the moment we die as His perspective is seeing all things at once. Basically after we die our souls make that jump into His reality (and through our time years later) when he is returning.
Not sure how much sense that makes. It's hard for me to describe in words.
I think I understand you perfectly. That is very close to how I see it in the scriptures.
