There are some logistical problems with having the higher seed hosting. It means that the tournament is dragged along for a week or more, since teams have to travel in-between games. It also could mean trouble for whatever TV we want to have it on, since it's a whole lot easier for Fox or CBSSN to bring a van to one venue for 4-5 days than it is to fly all across the country to the campus sites. Moving to campus site tournaments could mean we have at best ASN until we hit the tournament final. You also lose whatever advertising and outreach you'd have with a neutral site, since the city won't really want to advertise the tourney as the event. They wouldn't have any stake in it. The conference would have to pay for ad space, in a half a dozen cities, all without the revenue that would be brought in by the bid for the tourney.
It's also a lot easier for schools to plan for a neutral site game, because flights/hotels can be made in advance and fan packages can be made easier and cheaper.
TL;DR Neutral site games concentrate resources and give the conference as a whole more bang for their buck when it comes to exposure.
Does this mean neutral sites are 100000% the way to go? No, but I wanted to demonstrate that campus-site games might not be the slam-dunk they're made out to be.
(04-21-2016 06:27 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2016 05:51 AM)BigBlue23 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2016 05:37 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2016 05:07 AM)BigBlue23 Wrote: [ -> ]I am assuming the reason for neutral site tournaments is revenue? I might be mistaken. I know public position is neutral court so no team has an advantage...but does CUSA tournament really make money? There are like 100 people who attend.
I like playing at higher seeds...but I don't think that is how this is going to flow.
Yes. Cities and and the host school bid for the tournament together. The highest bidder wins. This insulates the league from the financial risk of running a lowly attended tournament.
I wonder what would be more financially rewarding for the conference. A guaranteed pay day at a neutral site or splitting gate proceeds from higher seeds. You would assume that would equate to 7 close to sold out games?
Geesus. You gotta also wonder what would be easier to market to TV execs, a bunch of sold out tournament games or an empty arena because the host school isn't playing.
The lack of maleability this league has displayed isn't very inspiring. The host city hosting both tournaments worked when Memphis was in the league due to their great support and central locale. It just doesn't work anymore for anyone but the host.
I'm a big fan of the higher seed hosting the game, but I see the TV execs balking at the idea. They would need 4 (or more) crews to cover the games vs. 1 at a central location. I'm sure the cost could be part of the negotiated rights.
To me, the energy & excitement of a sold out arena far outweighs the "bush league" perception of a home court game. Nothing looks more bush league than an empty arena.
What's the point where ODU fans will actually come in number? Birmingham was just way too far - no direct flights and the start time was awful. As someone already mentioned, the tournament start time ought to be changed - starting on a Thursday or Friday would be much more ideal to get fans to attend.
I'm thinking Charlotte would be a great place.
I can only speak for myself but I would probably go most years if the tourney was in Charlotte or even Raleigh.
(04-20-2016 04:59 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2016 04:50 PM)cmett003 Wrote: [ -> ]If it is in Birmingham again, C-USA would be a complete joke. I think Charlotte would be the best location, great "big" city and growing fast. All the respectable conferences have their tournaments in big cities.
It'd have to be at Bojangles Coliseum, since there's no way CUSA could fill or even get close to filling Time Warner Arena. Plus the CIAA is playing next year's tournament at Bojangles, though they should be done by the time CUSA were to move in.
I just can't see the tournament ever being a success. Even if the conference gets markedly better, the footprint is so broad that almost assuredly you'll be looking at cringeworthy crowds when the host school isn't playing. I'd just as soon they scrap the tournament entirely and have the top four teams play a round-robin to determine the auto-bid (and spike all four teams' RPIs in the process).
They have curtains that cover the top level. It makes it look very much like only the lower bowl and suite level exists anyway.
Doesn't matter though because the CIAA tournament is the week before. The Hornets aren't going to give up their arena for two straight weeks.
(04-21-2016 09:14 AM)ODU Hoops Wrote: [ -> ]I can only speak for myself but I would probably go most years if the tourney was in Charlotte or even Raleigh.
You can speak for me also (and my wife would almost certainly come along).
Beyond Charlotte, it would depend on the attractiveness of the location -- and a reasonable likelihood that we might survive to at least the semi-final game.
(04-21-2016 10:10 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2016 09:14 AM)ODU Hoops Wrote: [ -> ]I can only speak for myself but I would probably go most years if the tourney was in Charlotte or even Raleigh.
You can speak for me also (and my wife would almost certainly come along).
Beyond Charlotte, it would depend on the attractiveness of the location -- and a reasonable likelihood that we might survive to at least the semi-final game.
Same here. How sucky would it be to take off work, book travel and motel, and then watch the team get beat in the first game? (I guess that is always a risk).
Now once I retire, that's a different story.
Charlotte, Raleigh, Myrtle Beach or Charleston locations would get me to attend. Maybe Atlanta too.
(04-21-2016 09:58 AM)Niner National Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2016 04:59 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2016 04:50 PM)cmett003 Wrote: [ -> ]If it is in Birmingham again, C-USA would be a complete joke. I think Charlotte would be the best location, great "big" city and growing fast. All the respectable conferences have their tournaments in big cities.
It'd have to be at Bojangles Coliseum, since there's no way CUSA could fill or even get close to filling Time Warner Arena. Plus the CIAA is playing next year's tournament at Bojangles, though they should be done by the time CUSA were to move in.
I just can't see the tournament ever being a success. Even if the conference gets markedly better, the footprint is so broad that almost assuredly you'll be looking at cringeworthy crowds when the host school isn't playing. I'd just as soon they scrap the tournament entirely and have the top four teams play a round-robin to determine the auto-bid (and spike all four teams' RPIs in the process).
They have curtains that cover the top level. It makes it look very much like only the lower bowl and suite level exists anyway.
Doesn't matter though because the CIAA tournament is the week before. The Hornets aren't going to give up their arena for two straight weeks.
The CIAA is returning to Time Warner? I read somewhere (can't remember where) that the CIAA was going to Bojangles. I thought that was a bit small for what they've traditionally drawn.
Wait, here we go: The CIAA will start playing early-round games at Bojangles starting next year but keep the later-round games at TW.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/...60124.html
(04-20-2016 10:25 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]I think you need to have at least the final four at a neutral site.
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Logistical nightmare. You could have UTEP as the 1 seed, play a couple of home games and then have to travel to, say Myrtle Beach for their next game the next day. Maybe ideal for a very regional conference like the old CAA that stretched from UNCW to Navy, but this just couldn't work in our conference.
I like the Ivy's four-team tournament they're starting next season. Keeps the riff-raff out, ensures that the conference's representative will at least be respectable.
(04-21-2016 01:12 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ]I like the Ivy's four-team tournament they're starting next season. Keeps the riff-raff out, ensures that the conference's representative will at least be respectable.
Just playing devils advocate here...that would have meant that we missed the tournament this year.
(04-21-2016 01:50 PM)BigBlue23 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2016 01:12 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ]I like the Ivy's four-team tournament they're starting next season. Keeps the riff-raff out, ensures that the conference's representative will at least be respectable.
Just playing devils advocate here...that would have meant that we missed the tournament this year.
Ivy League only has 8 member institutions. A similar method for C-USA could be an 8 team tournament, which could be interesting. The teams included in this years tourney would be:
UAB
MTSU
Marshall
La Tech
ODU
UTEP
Charlotte
WKU
1st round: UAB/WKU, MTSU/UNC-C, Marshall/UTEP, LTU/ODU
Start it Friday, have championship game on Sunday afternoon before the selection show.
(04-21-2016 02:01 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2016 01:50 PM)BigBlue23 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2016 01:12 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ]I like the Ivy's four-team tournament they're starting next season. Keeps the riff-raff out, ensures that the conference's representative will at least be respectable.
Just playing devils advocate here...that would have meant that we missed the tournament this year.
Ivy League only has 8 member institutions. A similar method for C-USA could be an 8 team tournament, which could be interesting. The teams included in this years tourney would be:
UAB
MTSU
Marshall
La Tech
ODU
UTEP
Charlotte
WKU
1st round: UAB/WKU, MTSU/UNC-C, Marshall/UTEP, LTU/ODU
Start it Friday, have championship game on Sunday afternoon before the selection show.
Yeah, I don't know that you can do a four-team tournament for any conference that doesn't do round-robin. But eight, or even six, would do fine. Or set a floor for teams -- maybe they have to have at least a .500 record in-conference to go to the tournament. It makes scheduling the tournament a bit tricky but I'd think they could rig something up quickly.
(04-21-2016 08:05 AM)odu09 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2016 07:21 AM)Memphis Blazer Wrote: [ -> ]CUSA fans for the most part don't travel to tournaments, so locals have to be relied upon. Fair or not, there has to be a team with home court advantage. No one in Memphis cares about CUSA and knowing Memphis fans, the tournament there would be a source of derision.
Well, if it's true that CUSA fans don't travel to tournaments anyway, why not just reward the #1 overall team with the home court for the tournament? That way if they do get that advantage at least it's going to the "best" team and hopefully will do well in the NCAAT, assuming they win and not completely choke against the 8 seed...
What happens when one of the teams with a high school gym gets the one seed?
And to poke more holes...if I am the city bidding to host, why would I give up 6-8 schools coming here, taking my hotels, eating my food, bringing their fans to my hotels, etc. Even if the school gets bounced early and only has a few fans, that is why cities bid to host. Economic impact.
(04-21-2016 03:04 PM)BigBlue23 Wrote: [ -> ]And to poke more holes...if I am the city bidding to host, why would I give up 6-8 schools coming here, taking my hotels, eating my food, bringing their fans to my hotels, etc. Even if the school gets bounced early and only has a few fans, that is why cities bid to host. Economic impact.
With rare exceptions, those 6-8 teams are bringing next to no fans to the tournament because they've been bad all season. How many FAU and UTSA fans made the trip to Birmingham?
A smaller tournament also might mean that you could do the men's and women's tournament at the same site, which opens up hosting options for places that have one, but not two, suitable sites.
Right now bidding on the C-USA tournament should be at an all time low, Norfolk should make a run at it.
"Wait, you mean we can sell 185 hotel rooms for two whole nights, then watch that dwindle to 56 rooms for night three so 800 people can go to the championship game?
We will offer you $5000 to host the the tournament plus give you 1% of gate and concessions. You should be happy we are even bidding."
Haha
(04-21-2016 03:56 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2016 03:04 PM)BigBlue23 Wrote: [ -> ]And to poke more holes...if I am the city bidding to host, why would I give up 6-8 schools coming here, taking my hotels, eating my food, bringing their fans to my hotels, etc. Even if the school gets bounced early and only has a few fans, that is why cities bid to host. Economic impact.
With rare exceptions, those 6-8 teams are bringing next to no fans to the tournament because they've been bad all season. How many FAU and UTSA fans made the trip to Birmingham?
A smaller tournament also might mean that you could do the men's and women's tournament at the same site, which opens up hosting options for places that have one, but not two, suitable sites.
They might not bring fans but they bring their team and support staff. Minimum of 15 hotel rooms per team for a minimum of 2 nights. This includes players, coaches, administrators, trainers and then additions can include band and cheerleaders. Fans are a bonus. Those same people must eat in the city etc.
So 14 teams x 15 rooms x 2 nights x $125 (modest hotel room) x 2 for the ladies tournament at you are over $100,000. And Jose are crazy conservative numbers. Odu prob travels with 40 or more hotel rooms. Plus food.
The economic impact is real before any fans arrive. So a city bidding to host won't concede half the field.
