(12-21-2016 10:56 AM)bricksnivy Wrote: [ -> ] (12-21-2016 10:49 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote: [ -> ]HE did some awkward things too. He was missing 2 of his top 3 starters. It's pretty amazing they got that far. His overworking of Miller though also showed up in Game 7.
Why did he leave Shaw in the game after a 17 minute rain delay? Despite Ryan Merritt pitching 4.1 scoreless 2-hit baseball in the ALCS, he didn't see the mound the WS. He overworked Miller, and started Kluber on short rest in back-to-back starts.
Missing 2 of 3 starters is justification for Francona, but Rondon and Strop injuries are irrelevant for Chapman discussion.
This is all encapsulated in my argument. They make difficult decisions, and the outcome (plus it's significance) determines how we react. It doesn't make sense. It's outcome bias.
I'm sorry Strop pitched well in the WS, i don't buy the injury. I've already said Francona made some silly decisions. I'm not giving him a free pass like Mullet. But i'm also not giving Maddon a free pass when they won despite him.
(12-21-2016 11:37 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote: [ -> ] (12-21-2016 10:56 AM)bricksnivy Wrote: [ -> ] (12-21-2016 10:49 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote: [ -> ]HE did some awkward things too. He was missing 2 of his top 3 starters. It's pretty amazing they got that far. His overworking of Miller though also showed up in Game 7.
Why did he leave Shaw in the game after a 17 minute rain delay? Despite Ryan Merritt pitching 4.1 scoreless 2-hit baseball in the ALCS, he didn't see the mound the WS. He overworked Miller, and started Kluber on short rest in back-to-back starts.
Missing 2 of 3 starters is justification for Francona, but Rondon and Strop injuries are irrelevant for Chapman discussion.
This is all encapsulated in my argument. They make difficult decisions, and the outcome (plus it's significance) determines how we react. It doesn't make sense. It's outcome bias.
I'm sorry Strop pitched well in the WS, i don't buy the injury. I've already said Francona made some silly decisions. I'm not giving him a free pass like Mullet. But i'm also not giving Maddon a free pass when they won despite him.
Fair enough. I don't mind questioning his decisions. That comes with the territory. My opinion is that there is that it is such a nuanced decision, it's unfair to say they won in despite of him. My opinion, they're not there without him.
I think the fact that Strop didn't pitch in the 10th is evidence he was injured. He injured his MCL on August 11 and missed the next 6 weeks. Personally, I think he misses at least 8 weeks if not for the playoffs approaching; they had to see what he had before entering the post season. In the WS, he only pitched two innings, despite having a career year in 2016.
I would not have pitched Chapman in the 9th inning of game 6. I think I'm already on record of saying as much in this thread. So, I'm not saying it was the right decision, to be clear. I just don't think it was a terrible decision, or evidence that he's a lesser manager.
(12-21-2016 07:46 AM)bricksnivy Wrote: [ -> ]Hey Mullet, what's your opinion of Francona bringing in Miller in a 6 run game and throwing 27 pitches?
Dumb move I thought but he was doing that the entire playoff run and Miller can throw back to back days and multiple innings.
What do you guys think of Edwin? 3-60? That's a STEAL IMO and i'm pissed the Yanks were not in on that.
(12-24-2016 12:02 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote: [ -> ]What do you guys think of Edwin? 3-60? That's a STEAL IMO and i'm pissed the Yanks were not in on that.
It's a good sign, but he's aging. I still prefer the Cub's talented youth who now have the ultimate experience. Edwin was a good signing for the Native Americans though.
(12-24-2016 12:31 PM)CoastGuardHawk06 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2016 12:02 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote: [ -> ]What do you guys think of Edwin? 3-60? That's a STEAL IMO and i'm pissed the Yanks were not in on that.
It's a good sign, but he's aging. I still prefer the Cub's talented youth who now have the ultimate experience. Edwin was a good signing for the Native Americans though.
An aging guy that hit 42 bombs and batted in 127. For three years it's very low risk IMO
Cleveland with the big deal on Edwin and I think that might put them right back in the WS again.I am not sold on the Boston pitching even with Sale as the new stud.
I understand the Yankees want to give the kids a chance to play but Matt Holliday? He came with a 1 year deal but they overpaid even for that -guessing they are waiting to see what happens this season and go for the big time next signing season.
(12-29-2016 08:55 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote: [ -> ]Cleveland with the big deal on Edwin and I think that might put them right back in the WS again.I am not sold on the Boston pitching even with Sale as the new stud.
I understand the Yankees want to give the kids a chance to play but Matt Holliday? He came with a 1 year deal but they overpaid even for that -guessing they are waiting to see what happens this season and go for the big time next signing season.
We for once are on the same page here! Holliday hasn't been relevant in 4 years. I would have loved for them to make a splash with Edwin and get these young cats some legit protection. In Terms of Cleveland, it's a nice signing, but unless the re-sign Napoli too who had a great year it's only a slight upgrade in terms of numbers for them.
Man, I'm the last person that wants to defend Holliday, but there's a little exaggeration in his decline. Holliday was good in 2013 and 2014, had a down year in 2015 (mainly due to injuries) and was decent last year. He still hit 20 homeruns in 110 games last year. In '15, it was a leg injury (quad or hammy), which can be concerning. But, I don't think his legs were an issue this year. He missed the last 5-6 weeks after getting HBP on the RH. He's still got a little pop and he's always been a DH stuck in the NL.
EE is an upgrade over Napoli, IMO. It's a good signing for Cleveland.
All Chicago has left to do is sign Tyson Ross, and come to terms with Arrieta and I'll call the off season a success.
Since we all love baseball, this is a great article on Anthony Rizzo and how he bounced around and ultimately ended up as a cornerstone in Chicago.
"...the only piece of the club's young core who didn't progress so smoothly is the one who started everything. Nobody knew what Anthony Rizzo would become in Chicago—much less that a challenge trade between two of baseball's bottom feeders would be the first domino that would propel Chicago to its first World Series in more than a century."
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/in...rtstwitter
(12-29-2016 09:14 AM)bricksnivy Wrote: [ -> ]Man, I'm the last person that wants to defend Holliday, but there's a little exaggeration in his decline. Holliday was good in 2013 and 2014, had a down year in 2015 (mainly due to injuries) and was decent last year. He still hit 20 homeruns in 110 games last year. In '15, it was a leg injury (quad or hammy), which can be concerning. But, I don't think his legs were an issue this year. He missed the last 5-6 weeks after getting HBP on the RH. He's still got a little pop and he's always been a DH stuck in the NL.
EE is an upgrade over Napoli, IMO. It's a good signing for Cleveland.
All Chicago has left to do is sign Tyson Ross, and come to terms with Arrieta and I'll call the off season a success.
I agree EE is an upgrade. My point was if you add in his numbers and subtract Napoli's from last year it's not a huge net increase.
In terms of Holliday, yes 5 years isn't correct, but he hasn't had a legit good year in 14, 15, 16. Yes he hit 20 hr last year, but he batted .246. With older players i follow the trends. If a guy in his mid 30's has trended down 3 years in a row, it will usually continue. I obviously hope i'm wrong but history tells me i won't be.
(12-29-2016 10:01 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote: [ -> ]In terms of Holliday, yes 5 years isn't correct, but he hasn't had a legit good year in 14, 15, 16. Yes he hit 20 hr last year, but he batted .246. With older players i follow the trends. If a guy in his mid 30's has trended down 3 years in a row, it will usually continue. I obviously hope i'm wrong but history tells me i won't be.
My other thought with Holliday is that the Yankees aren't likely contenders. It's tough to sell a rebuild in NY, I get it, but if he's healthy and has a resurgent year, they're still a fringe playoff team and likely in the WC game. Or, they decide to sell for more prospects at the deadline. Plus, I have the impression that he's a good clubhouse guy, and he's known as a hard worker. Both of which should be good for the young guys on the team
Did his contract prevent NY from making a more significant move? Do they have a potential DH in their system, or will there be more attractive options next off season? I don't know the answers to those questions, but what's 13 million to the Yankees?
(12-29-2016 10:46 AM)bricksnivy Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2016 10:01 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote: [ -> ]In terms of Holliday, yes 5 years isn't correct, but he hasn't had a legit good year in 14, 15, 16. Yes he hit 20 hr last year, but he batted .246. With older players i follow the trends. If a guy in his mid 30's has trended down 3 years in a row, it will usually continue. I obviously hope i'm wrong but history tells me i won't be.
but what's 13 million to the Yankees?
It's 13 mil that should have been spent on a guy like EE to give the young kids legit protection.
Minor moves that won't generate a lot of excitement outside of Chicago, but I love the last two pitching signings by Hoyer. Brett Anderson is a really solid addition if he can stay healthy. That's a big if, but they're not counting on him and there is tremendous upside.
I also really like the signing of Eddie Butler. I'm not a prospects guru. Outside of the Cubs system, I don't keep up with many of the amateur top 100, so I won't try to convince you that I know much about Butler. From what I've gathered, it's all upside. He's 25 years old, controllable through 2022 and has an option left. Reports indicate he has a solid fastball and change, and this past season worked to develop a slider. He's got a year to work on his stuff in Iowa, and Chicago can evaluate his ability to contribute without needing him whatsoever.
Chicago's pitching stayed remarkably healthy last year. Part of that is how well Maddon managed innings, and part of it is luck. We have no depth in the minors, so adding a AAA starter with this kind of upside, while giving up very little, is a great move.
http://www.csnchicago.com/mlb-cubs-rocki...hing-depth
With a few minor moves, including trading Vogelbach for Mike Montgomery, they've done a great job of addressing the back-end of the rotation. The approach for solidifying the top of the rotation will be more challenging. Arrieta situation will be interesting. I don't think the front office will sign Arrieta and go after Shohei Otani. It's one or the other, and my money is an aggressive offer to Otani unless Jake takes a 5 year deal.
(02-02-2017 08:33 AM)bricksnivy Wrote: [ -> ]Minor moves that won't generate a lot of excitement outside of Chicago, but I love the last two pitching signings by Hoyer. Brett Anderson is a really solid addition if he can stay healthy. That's a big if, but they're not counting on him and there is tremendous upside.
I also really like the signing of Eddie Butler. I'm not a prospects guru. Outside of the Cubs system, I don't keep up with many of the amateur top 100, so I won't try to convince you that I know much about Butler. From what I've gathered, it's all upside. He's 25 years old, controllable through 2022 and has an option left. Reports indicate he has a solid fastball and change, and this past season worked to develop a slider. He's got a year to work on his stuff in Iowa, and Chicago can evaluate his ability to contribute without needing him whatsoever.
Chicago's pitching stayed remarkably healthy last year. Part of that is how well Maddon managed innings, and part of it is luck. We have no depth in the minors, so adding a AAA starter with this kind of upside, while giving up very little, is a great move.
http://www.csnchicago.com/mlb-cubs-rocki...hing-depth
With a few minor moves, including trading Vogelbach for Mike Montgomery, they've done a great job of addressing the back-end of the rotation. The approach for solidifying the top of the rotation will be more challenging. Arrieta situation will be interesting. I don't think the front office will sign Arrieta and go after Shohei Otani. It's one or the other, and my money is an aggressive offer to Otani unless Jake takes a 5 year deal.
The only move i like the Yankees have made is inviting several of their stud youngsters(including Torres, thanks! :)) to ST. Other than that i see another year of mediocrity
I'll keep an eye on Torres for certain. Cubs gave up too much for a rental; and Cubs wouldn't have won the WS without said rental. As we look for TOR pitching, it would be nice to have Torres to offer, but I can't complain. He was always trade bait; he's blocked at the major league level by Russell and Baez, but it will be interesting how this trade is viewed in 5-10 years. I can't see Cubs ever being considered the "loser" of the trade since the ultimate gamble paid off, but just how big of a winner was NY?
(02-02-2017 11:01 AM)bricksnivy Wrote: [ -> ]I'll keep an eye on Torres for certain. Cubs gave up too much for a rental; and Cubs wouldn't have won the WS without said rental. As we look for TOR pitching, it would be nice to have Torres to offer, but I can't complain. He was always trade bait; he's blocked at the major league level by Russell and Baez, but it will be interesting how this trade is viewed in 5-10 years. I can't see Cubs ever being considered the "loser" of the trade since the ultimate gamble paid off, but just how big of a winner was NY?
I don't agree they gave up too much. It's a rare trade that worked out for both sides. Opportunities to win the WS don't come often, then they present themselves you make the needed move. They did and won the WS. Win-win I agree he was expendable because of the guys you mention, same reason why Yanks have been said to be shopping Mateo, he's expendable now with Torres in the fold. 5-10 years from now even if Torres is very good, Cubs still got a WS and that can't be taken for granted. WS> a good player IMO
That wasn't meant to be a complaint. Championships have been hard to come by for the Northside, so I'm happy.
(02-02-2017 04:22 PM)bricksnivy Wrote: [ -> ]That wasn't meant to be a complaint. Championships have been hard to come by for the Northside, so I'm happy.
I do like Torres, but i think your future is bright without him(and a title )
Great celebration at Wrigley tonight. Pretty cool having the players raise the championship banner, just as they did after their last title in 1908. I'm so thankful for the Ricketts family. The Cubs are top notch top to bottom right now, and there is plenty of credit to go around, but the only curse Chicago had was bad ownership. When that changed, the fortune of the club did as well.
I loved the sign that read, "17 minutes of rain washed away 108 years of drought."