Since the ACC has already clinched the last two available units from this year's tournament, I've calculated all the units earned this year, added them to the rolling units from the previous five seasons, and multiplied by next year's per unit payout ($265,791).
For 2011-13, I've calculated based on what I believe is the official NCAA count, and also on an adjusted basis for those former Big East schools that kept their units after leaving the conference (the Catholic 7 and Notre Dame).
Pretty sure the numbers for the American and Big East are wrong...the BE schools kept their units...so if Nova earned a unit in 2011, they kept it.
But if Syracuse earned a unit, it remained with the American.
(03-27-2016 09:04 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote: [ -> ]Pretty sure the numbers for the American and Big East are wrong...the BE schools kept their units...so if Nova earned a unit in 2011, they kept it.
But if Syracuse earned a unit, it remained with the American.
That's what I show in the "2017 adjusted" tab, which I agree is more accurate. However, the NCAA treats these units as belonging to the American, they go to the Big East and Notre Dame by agreement between the American and those schools.
(03-27-2016 08:22 AM)orangefan Wrote: [ -> ]Since the ACC has already clinched the last two available units from this year's tournament, I've calculated all the units earned this year, added them to the rolling units from the previous five seasons, and multiplied by next year's per unit payout ($265,791).
For 2011-13, I've calculated based on what I believe is the official NCAA count, and also on an adjusted basis for those former Big East schools that kept their units after leaving the conference (the Catholic 7 and Notre Dame).
Nice job with this. Would have liked one more column with the per-school payout for 2017, as that is ultimately the bottom line here. But of course you could tell me to do my own work on that, LOL.
one question. Was Notre Dame required to share their units with the ACC?
(03-27-2016 11:15 AM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]one question. Was Notre Dame required to share their units with the ACC?
Yes
I have also seen some reports in this, that suggest that the schools that left the Big East (Louisville, Cuse, Pitt, and ND) for the ACC may have taken their units with them. I say this because when Forbes had an article about it, it listed Louisivlle's accumulated credits to the ACC being the drone most valuable over the last six year (behind Kentucky's to the SEC). Other outlets have made the same calculations. I don't know if this is a change and we were unaware of it, or a miscalculation of Forbes part, that perhaps others made the same mistake. But several sources have credited Cuse, UofL, Pitt, and ND's earned units to the ACC.
Also note than conferences receive about the same or more from the NCAA in scholarship Payouts, that tend to mirror the "NCAA units" payout. For example, the ACC is due an estimated $27.5 million this year from the other scholarship pools, such as the grant in aid, student assistance, academic fund, conference grant. Sports sponsorship fund, and academic enhancement funds. But these go straight to scholarship funds at the conference and school level, and skip the athletic departments.
For there to have been a change, it would have had to be voted on by the NCAA at the convention....
(03-27-2016 12:55 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]For there to have been a change, it would have had to be voted on by the NCAA at the convention....
I'm on my phone, and I can't cut and paste all of the info. There are a couple of items that seem to be able to interpreted either way, but this one is worth mentioning...
NCAA Wrote:The basketball fund is distributed to Division I conferences based on their performance in the Division I Men’s Basketball tournament over a six-year rolling period. The 2014 distribution is based on units earned from 2008 to 2013. Independent institutions receive a full unit share based on its tournament participation over the same rolling six-year period. The basketball fund payments are sent to conferences and independent institutions in mid-April.
If a new member participates in the Division I Men’s basketball tournament in March-April 2014, the units for participants will be included in the Basketball Distribution in April 2015.
One unit is awarded to each institution participating in each game, except the championship game. Units are retained by the Conference in which they are earned. In 2013, each basketball unit was approximately $245,500 for a total $188.3 million distribution.
In 2014, each basketball unit will be approximately $250,100 for a total $193.58 million distribution.
For the purpose of distributing the basketball fund, a conference is defined as one that comprises at least six member institutions that are classified as Division I for eight preceding academic years. If a conference falls below the six-member requirement, the basketball fund is retained by the conference for a one-year period only.
The following policies also apply when a conference’s membership changes or realignment occurs:
A. If an institution leaves a conference and realigns with another and its original conference remains in operation, the units it earned remain with the conference that it left.
B. If an institution leaves a conference to become an independent, the units that the institution earned are retained by the conference that it left.
C. If an independent institution joins a conference, it retains the units it earned as an independent prior to the date it elected to join the conference; any units the institution earns subsequent to that date accrue to the conference.
D. If a conference disbands, each institution retains the units it earned in the basketball fund.
E. If an institution leaves a conference and the conference falls below the six-member requirement, the units remain with the conference for a one-year period; however, if the conference then later disbands, those units return to the basketball fund.
F. If 50 percent or more of the member institutions in a given conference leave the conference simultaneously and the remaining conference membership falls below six member institutions, the conference shall be considered disbanded and each member institution shall retain the units it earned in the basketball fund as if the conference had in fact disbanded.
Reading part F, it would seem to indicate that the original Big East could have been deemed disbanded, and the teams that left (probably including West Virginia) may have actually retained their own rights, and transferred them to their new conference, since their definition of a disbanded conference fits the Big East in 2013-14. 10
Members left in one year, the C7, ND, Cuse, and Pitt, and only five of the original remained (UConn, Cincy, USF, Rutgers, and Louisville). That would be "disbanded" by that definition. So perhaps it is true.
I guess we'll see in about two years when the NCAA updates their distribution reports (they are usually two calendar years behind, as only 2014's is now currently available.
(03-27-2016 12:45 PM)adcorbett Wrote: [ -> ]I have also seen some reports in this, that suggest that the schools that left the Big East (Louisville, Cuse, Pitt, and ND) for the ACC may have taken their units with them. I say this because when Forbes had an article about it, it listed Louisivlle's accumulated credits to the ACC being the drone most valuable over the last six year (behind Kentucky's to the SEC). Other outlets have made the same calculations. I don't know if this is a change and we were unaware of it, or a miscalculation of Forbes part, that perhaps others made the same mistake. But several sources have credited Cuse, UofL, Pitt, and ND's earned units to the ACC.
Also note than conferences receive about the same or more from the NCAA in scholarship Payouts, that tend to mirror the "NCAA units" payout. For example, the ACC is due an estimated $27.5 million this year from the other scholarship pools, such as the grant in aid, student assistance, academic fund, conference grant. Sports sponsorship fund, and academic enhancement funds. But these go straight to scholarship funds at the conference and school level, and skip the athletic departments.
Louisville was part of the American for a season...so I doubt they would be part of that.
(03-27-2016 12:45 PM)adcorbett Wrote: [ -> ]I have also seen some reports in this, that suggest that the schools that left the Big East (Louisville, Cuse, Pitt, and ND) for the ACC may have taken their units with them. I say this because when Forbes had an article about it, it listed Louisivlle's accumulated credits to the ACC being the drone most valuable over the last six year (behind Kentucky's to the SEC). Other outlets have made the same calculations. I don't know if this is a change and we were unaware of it, or a miscalculation of Forbes part, that perhaps others made the same mistake. But several sources have credited Cuse, UofL, Pitt, and ND's earned units to the ACC.
Also note than conferences receive about the same or more from the NCAA in scholarship Payouts, that tend to mirror the "NCAA units" payout. For example, the ACC is due an estimated $27.5 million this year from the other scholarship pools, such as the grant in aid, student assistance, academic fund, conference grant. Sports sponsorship fund, and academic enhancement funds. But these go straight to scholarship funds at the conference and school level, and skip the athletic departments.
The American absolutely has all of the units of Syracuse, Louisville, Pittsburgh and West Virginia.
"The Big East's stash of cash has built up in recent years through a combination of exit fees, entry fees and money the league's members earned in the NCAA men's basketball tournament."
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...ing-report
(03-27-2016 01:48 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]just looking- it didn't....
https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files...nFinal.pdf
The ACC for 2014-15 by the NCAA got 18,387,323, while the AAC got 29,368,641.
I think why the AAC was able to keep all the units was their membership never fell below 6 members....
I don't know what the answer is, I was speculating based on the Information from Forbes, SI, and others. One thing I do know is that report listed seems to have some inaccuracies, because it attributes ALL of the original Big East's credits (C7) to the American, and the new Big East being paid as a one bid conference.
I think those are estimates and not the final tally. That or the new big east has the worst negotiators on the planet (and Areacondwserves a BIG) rqise
(03-27-2016 01:59 PM)adcorbett Wrote: [ -> ] (03-27-2016 01:48 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]just looking- it didn't....
https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files...nFinal.pdf
The ACC for 2014-15 by the NCAA got 18,387,323, while the AAC got 29,368,641.
I think why the AAC was able to keep all the units was their membership never fell below 6 members....
I don't know what the answer is, I was speculating based on the I for from Forbes, SI, and others. One thing I do know is that report listed has some inaccuracies, because it attributes all of he Big East's credits (C7) to the American, and the new Big East being paid as a one bid conference.
I think for accounting purposes it's right. The AAC actually does get all the money, but the new Big East on a separate deal gets the units they accrued from the AAC.
(03-27-2016 01:40 PM)adcorbett Wrote: [ -> ] (03-27-2016 12:55 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]For there to have been a change, it would have had to be voted on by the NCAA at the convention....
I'm on my phone, and I can't cut and paste all of the info. There are a couple of items that seem to be able to interpreted either way, but this one is worth mentioning...
NCAA Wrote:The basketball fund is distributed to Division I conferences based on their performance in the Division I Men’s Basketball tournament over a six-year rolling period. The 2014 distribution is based on units earned from 2008 to 2013. Independent institutions receive a full unit share based on its tournament participation over the same rolling six-year period. The basketball fund payments are sent to conferences and independent institutions in mid-April.
If a new member participates in the Division I Men’s basketball tournament in March-April 2014, the units for participants will be included in the Basketball Distribution in April 2015.
One unit is awarded to each institution participating in each game, except the championship game. Units are retained by the Conference in which they are earned. In 2013, each basketball unit was approximately $245,500 for a total $188.3 million distribution.
In 2014, each basketball unit will be approximately $250,100 for a total $193.58 million distribution.
For the purpose of distributing the basketball fund, a conference is defined as one that comprises at least six member institutions that are classified as Division I for eight preceding academic years. If a conference falls below the six-member requirement, the basketball fund is retained by the conference for a one-year period only.
The following policies also apply when a conference’s membership changes or realignment occurs:
A. If an institution leaves a conference and realigns with another and its original conference remains in operation, the units it earned remain with the conference that it left.
B. If an institution leaves a conference to become an independent, the units that the institution earned are retained by the conference that it left.
C. If an independent institution joins a conference, it retains the units it earned as an independent prior to the date it elected to join the conference; any units the institution earns subsequent to that date accrue to the conference.
D. If a conference disbands, each institution retains the units it earned in the basketball fund.
E. If an institution leaves a conference and the conference falls below the six-member requirement, the units remain with the conference for a one-year period; however, if the conference then later disbands, those units return to the basketball fund.
F. If 50 percent or more of the member institutions in a given conference leave the conference simultaneously and the remaining conference membership falls below six member institutions, the conference shall be considered disbanded and each member institution shall retain the units it earned in the basketball fund as if the conference had in fact disbanded.
Reading part F, it would seem to indicate that the original Big East could have been deemed disbanded, and the teams that left (probably including West Virginia) may have actually retained their own rights, and transferred them to their new conference, since their definition of a disbanded conference fits the Big East in 2013-14. 10
Members left in one year, the C7, ND, Cuse, and Pitt, and only five of the original remained (UConn, Cincy, USF, Rutgers, and Louisville). That would be "disbanded" by that definition. So perhaps it is true.
I guess we'll see in about two years when the NCAA updates their distribution reports (they are usually two calendar years behind, as only 2014's is now currently available.
The Big East was very careful not to disband, as it would have caused the loss of all of the Syracuse, West Virginia and Pittsburgh units. I'm guessing the C7 had the ability to cause disbandment, which would have allowed them to keep their own credits, but would have been a nuclear option. This leverage allowed them to negotiate to keep their credits, the Big East name, etc.
Also, the NCAA distribution for 2014-15 is available and clearly shows, the American keeping all of the credits, even from the C7 and Notre Dame, which is why I included separate adjusted and unadjusted tabs.
http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/...nFinal.pdf
(03-27-2016 11:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote: [ -> ] (03-27-2016 08:22 AM)orangefan Wrote: [ -> ]Since the ACC has already clinched the last two available units from this year's tournament, I've calculated all the units earned this year, added them to the rolling units from the previous five seasons, and multiplied by next year's per unit payout ($265,791).
For 2011-13, I've calculated based on what I believe is the official NCAA count, and also on an adjusted basis for those former Big East schools that kept their units after leaving the conference (the Catholic 7 and Notre Dame).
Nice job with this. Would have liked one more column with the per-school payout for 2017, as that is ultimately the bottom line here. But of course you could tell me to do my own work on that, LOL.
I've now added this to the spreadsheet. If you download it again, the per school numbers are there. The only conference change that I'm aware of for next year is Coastal Carolina from the Big South to the Sun Belt, which I reflect in the per school calculation. If anyone knows of others, please advise.
Of course if that were the case, that would be a workaround to avoid giving up the rights to those fees, because as it was, per the NCAA definition, the big east did disband (in terms of the NCAA fund). Then again if they negotiatored that, the same situation I suggested above could be in play with some of the departing teams.
Or Forbes just could have been wrong.
(03-27-2016 01:59 PM)adcorbett Wrote: [ -> ] (03-27-2016 01:48 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]just looking- it didn't....
https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files...nFinal.pdf
The ACC for 2014-15 by the NCAA got 18,387,323, while the AAC got 29,368,641.
I think why the AAC was able to keep all the units was their membership never fell below 6 members....
I don't know what the answer is, I was speculating based on the Information from Forbes, SI, and others. One thing I do know is that report listed seems to have some inaccuracies, because it attributes ALL of the original Big East's credits (C7) to the American, and the new Big East being paid as a one bid conference.
I think those are estimates and not the final tally. That or the new big east has the worst negotiators on the planet (and Areacondwserves a BIG) rqise
This is why I did an adjusted and unadjusted tab. The NCAA recognizes the credits as belonging to the American, but the American has agreed to let the C7 and Notre Dame keep theirs. As I speculate above, the C7 could have caused the Big East to disband to get their credits, but agreed not to.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...ing-report
http://www.si.com/college-basketball/one...-next-year
What's really interesting to me about this is the P5's overall share of the money. Next year, the P5 will get about 49% of the $210 million being distributed despite winning about 75% of the tournament's games.
That's far, far less than the approximately 85% of the CFP/major bowl money the P5 gets.
This difference is attributable to NCAA control of the NCAA tournament but P5 control of the CFP.
In effect, this redounds to the benefit of the weaker P5 basketball conferences, like the SEC and PAC, as the socialistic nature of the NCAA distribution scheme means that they don't suffer much of a per-school financial penalty versus the really good P5 basketball conferences even as they earn far fewer credits.
One reason the C7 could keep Their credits was the fact that They were able to keep the Big East name when They left. They paid the American a fee for the name. Had the Big East Football side won the name, likely the C7 credits would also have remained with the football side for basketball.