I feel like screaming at a few of our players that more often than not pass up on open shots without so much as looking at the basket. I saw at least 4 different players do that tonight against North Texas. I'm talking about opportunities where they were wide open for a shot that they have made in games before and yet didn't even look like they wanted to attempt it. This makes me feel like they don't have any confidence in their ability to knock it down, or they are too scared.
One guy was not more than 10 feet out along the baseline and he acted like he couldn't get it out of his hands fast enough. Two others were at the 3 point arc and they had a wide open shot but didn't even look at the basket before passing it around the perimeter against the zone. The other was again at the 3 point arc and the guy (one of our better 3 point shooters) was so wide open that he immediately dribbled about 10 feet toward the basket into heavy traffic and managed to turn a potential 3 point play into an ugly offensive possession. I don't get it. They work to get an open look then don't even look, much less shoot it. Trey can't score 25-35 every night.
(02-11-2016 10:45 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ]I feel like screaming at a few of our players that more often than not pass up on open shots without so much as looking at the basket. I saw at least 4 different players do that tonight against North Texas. I'm talking about opportunities where they were wide open for a shot that they have made in games before and yet didn't even look like they wanted to attempt it. This makes me feel like they don't have any confidence in their ability to knock it down, or they are too scared.
One guy was not more than 10 feet out along the baseline and he acted like he couldn't get it out of his hands fast enough. Two others were at the 3 point arc and they had a wide open shot but didn't even look at the basket before passing it around the perimeter against the zone. The other was again at the 3 point arc and the guy (one of our better 3 point shooters) was so wide open that he immediately dribbled about 10 feet toward the basket into heavy traffic and managed to turn a potential 3 point play into an ugly offensive possession. I don't get it. They work to get an open look then don't even look, much less shoot it. Trey can't score 25-35 every night.
If there names don't end in Freeman or Bacote, then no, they can't make shots.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky.
(02-12-2016 12:35 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ]"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky.
That's still preferable to missing 100% of the shots you do take. Do you want someone like Taylor or Vassor taking a 15 footer? That's not their game.
(02-12-2016 12:35 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ]"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky.
-Michael Scott
(02-12-2016 12:50 AM)Chillie Willie Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2016 12:35 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ]"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky.
That's still preferable to missing 100% of the shots you do take. Do you want someone like Taylor or Vassor taking a 15 footer? That's not their game.
Of course not. That isn't the situations that I was describing as noted by the fact that I mentioned the players passed up shots that they had made in games before. Last night they didn't even act interested in taking the same shot and actually in most cases seemed to be in a hurry to make the opportunity for them to take that shot disappear. It was as if they didn't want anyone to notice they were passing on the shot.
These were instances that if the players I noticed had taken the shot from that spot no one would have questioned it. Two of them did take shots from the same range at other times during the game last night and make them. I just don't like to see players that are being asked to contribute offensively in support of Trey not even look at their opportunities when they are there. It puts too much pressure on Trey to score every time down the floor.
By the way ... Vassor was 2 for 2 last night from 15 feet, but I understand your point.
I think there are so many factors in the process of what is a good shot to take and when. Sure, I thought Vassor passed up one shot at the rim, Biberaj passed up an open mid-range baseline jumper, Talley didn't even look to shoot a 3 from the wing when his man was sagging 5 feet from him. But, in the end, it's easy for me to criticize these players from my seat in the stands, but confidence is a funny thing. I don't think they're scared, they just might be over-thinking, believing that someone else might have a better shot. I'm sure in the film breakdown, the coaches will point out what shots should have been taken, and which ones, should not have been.
Maybe the game plan was to run late into the shot clock to slow the game down. I mean, we did end up holding them 28 points below their season average.
(02-12-2016 09:23 AM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ]I think there are so many factors in the process of what is a good shot to take and when. Sure, I thought Vassor passed up one shot at the rim, Biberaj passed up an open mid-range baseline jumper, Talley didn't even look to shoot a 3 from the wing when his man was sagging 5 feet from him. But, in the end, it's easy for me to criticize these players from my seat in the stands, but confidence is a funny thing. I don't think they're scared, they just might be over-thinking, believing that someone else might have a better shot. I'm sure in the film breakdown, the coaches will point out what shots should have been taken, and which ones, should not have been.
I don't disagree with any of those things that you have mentioned Coach. Still, it gets frustrating, to me at least, when we pass up an open look for a player that has demonstrated his capability to make that shot, when it is a good and reasonable shot to take, and end up taking a more highly contested shot, get an offensive foul, or don't even get any shot at all due to a turnover (we had 9 of them in the first half last night).
Other than perhaps trying to run some clock or maybe trying to get a specific player in foul trouble it seems that the intent of anyone's offense is to get open looks against the defense for players in spots where they can make shots.
This is one of the things that drives me crazy about JJ's offense. Whether it is because he is telling guys not to shoot the ball, just the added pressure of low possession basketball, guys just do not step into shots confidently. Talley is the one that bothers me the most. If he is going to play the 3 he has got to be able to knock down an open 3. I am sure he is not shooting it well in practice which is why doesn't shoot in games, but he has a good looking shot, and a nice touch. I would rather see him keep firing away until he they start falling. The only way to get confidence is to see a few go in.
(02-12-2016 09:23 AM)T-Mac Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe the game plan was to run late into the shot clock to slow the game down. I mean, we did end up holding them 28 points below their season average.
It was pretty obvious to me that the game plan was to slow the game down, pound the boards and take shots carefully. And it worked. A big win.
(02-12-2016 09:57 AM)odu83alumni Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2016 09:23 AM)T-Mac Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe the game plan was to run late into the shot clock to slow the game down. I mean, we did end up holding them 28 points below their season average.
It was pretty obvious to me that the game plan was to slow the game down, pound the boards and take shots carefully. And it worked. A big win.
Post game JJ said it was ODU pushing the ball for potential fast breaks (even though some were mishandled) that was a difference in how the second half unfolded. Bacote had a terrible first half, but he led the FB charge and ended up with 10 second-half points.
NT's half court defense confounded ODU most of the night...their bigs moved out to challenge/deny Trey his elbow shots and ODU was ineffective for 3. Once ODU fashioned the lead, it was FTs and put-backs that maintained the margin.
Just a note, Talley is 2 of 10 on the year from 3. Baker is 23-79. Caver is 2-6. If your name is not Freeman or Bacote, I don't want you shooting 3s. (work on it in the offseason/practice)
Mosely was our guy that we need to spread the floor and unfortunately that didn't work out. THus, it's hard to design a good offense that doesn't have a true post up threat and doesn't have 3 point shooters. We have to design an offense around getting Freeman quality shots and most of them end up being mid range jumpers (and attack the glass).
I previously found a site that showed stats on different types of shots in college basketball, but I cant seem to locate at the moment. I would venture to guess that only Freeman makes a decent percentage of mid range jumpers (the worst shot in basketball, but something Freeman is very good at)
Someone brought up next year......I think we will have a much more well rounded team. I was actually shocked to see how well Colbert played at Illinois. He seems like a very good rebounder as well.
Ah, found it. Freeman is at 43% on midrange J's. Bacote at 39%. Talley at 36%. Caver 36%. Everyone else pretty bad.
(02-12-2016 10:55 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]Just a note, Talley is 2 of 10 on the year from 3. Baker is 23-79. Caver is 2-6. If your name is not Freeman or Bacote, I don't want you shooting 3s. (work on it in the offseason/practice)
Mosely was our guy that we need to spread the floor and unfortunately that didn't work out. THus, it's hard to design a good offense that doesn't have a true post up threat and doesn't have 3 point shooters. We have to design an offense around getting Freeman quality shots and most of them end up being mid range jumpers (and attack the glass).
I previously found a site that showed stats on different types of shots in college basketball, but I cant seem to locate at the moment. I would venture to guess that only Freeman makes a decent percentage of mid range jumpers (the worst shot in basketball, but something Freeman is very good at)
Someone brought up next year......I think we will have a much more well rounded team. I was actually shocked to see how well Colbert played at Illinois. He seems like a very good rebounder as well.
I believe that those shooting numbers are a chicken egg thing. If Nik, Talley, and Baker were shooting without hesitation whenever an open shot presents itself, I think they all could be decent enough. I don't want to see them shooting it 7 times a game, but 3-4 attempts if they are wide open is not unreasonable. All of them have good enough looking shots, so it appears to be a confidence issue. I say let them shoot until they are confident. Talley especially. If he could make defenders respect his jumper he would be unstoppable.
(02-12-2016 09:57 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]This is one of the things that drives me crazy about JJ's offense. Whether it is because he is telling guys not to shoot the ball, just the added pressure of low possession basketball, guys just do not step into shots confidently. Talley is the one that bothers me the most. If he is going to play the 3 he has got to be able to knock down an open 3. I am sure he is not shooting it well in practice which is why doesn't shoot in games, but he has a good looking shot, and a nice touch. I would rather see him keep firing away until he they start falling. The only way to get confidence is to see a few go in.
If you've listened to Jones at all recently, he's virtually begging someone other than Trey to make a scoring contribution. He isn't telling anyone not to shoot and in fact made the comment that if he could just get 6 points or so out of Baker he'd be thrilled. That doesn't sound like a guy telling someone not to shoot. We've clearly become too reliant on Trey and maybe that's just natural when teammates see a guy putting up the kind of numbers he's been doing lately. Talley and Stith are coming on, for sure, Bacote is always a possibility, and we may well carry a better balanced offense into the tournament.
(02-12-2016 10:55 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]Just a note, Talley is 2 of 10 on the year from 3. Baker is 23-79. Caver is 2-6. If your name is not Freeman or Bacote, I don't want you shooting 3s. (work on it in the offseason/practice)
Mosely was our guy that we need to spread the floor and unfortunately that didn't work out. THus, it's hard to design a good offense that doesn't have a true post up threat and doesn't have 3 point shooters. We have to design an offense around getting Freeman quality shots and most of them end up being mid range jumpers (and attack the glass).
I previously found a site that showed stats on different types of shots in college basketball, but I cant seem to locate at the moment. I would venture to guess that only Freeman makes a decent percentage of mid range jumpers (the worst shot in basketball, but something Freeman is very good at)
Someone brought up next year......I think we will have a much more well rounded team. I was actually shocked to see how well Colbert played at Illinois. He seems like a very good rebounder as well.
Baker and Biberaj both had better shooting percentages from 3 last night than Freeman did. If they didn't take the shots you never would have known that would happen. Can't get locked into one or two players responsible for doing everything offensively. As we saw, even Freeman can have an off shooting night. Baycote has had several off nights recently. Makes things too easy to defend and the other players don't progress as they should. What if one or both of them were to be out for any reason (illness, injury, fouls, etc.)? Do we not attempt any 3 pointers then?
(02-12-2016 11:28 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2016 10:55 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]Just a note, Talley is 2 of 10 on the year from 3. Baker is 23-79. Caver is 2-6. If your name is not Freeman or Bacote, I don't want you shooting 3s. (work on it in the offseason/practice)
Mosely was our guy that we need to spread the floor and unfortunately that didn't work out. THus, it's hard to design a good offense that doesn't have a true post up threat and doesn't have 3 point shooters. We have to design an offense around getting Freeman quality shots and most of them end up being mid range jumpers (and attack the glass).
I previously found a site that showed stats on different types of shots in college basketball, but I cant seem to locate at the moment. I would venture to guess that only Freeman makes a decent percentage of mid range jumpers (the worst shot in basketball, but something Freeman is very good at)
Someone brought up next year......I think we will have a much more well rounded team. I was actually shocked to see how well Colbert played at Illinois. He seems like a very good rebounder as well.
I believe that those shooting numbers are a chicken egg thing. If Nik, Talley, and Baker were shooting without hesitation whenever an open shot presents itself, I think they all could be decent enough. I don't want to see them shooting it 7 times a game, but 3-4 attempts if they are wide open is not unreasonable. All of them have good enough looking shots, so it appears to be a confidence issue. I say let them shoot until they are confident. Talley especially. If he could make defenders respect his jumper he would be unstoppable.
It is the most inefficient shot in basketball so I wouldn't want anyone shooting it unless they were really good at it or it was end of shot clock situation.
(02-12-2016 11:36 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2016 10:55 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]Just a note, Talley is 2 of 10 on the year from 3. Baker is 23-79. Caver is 2-6. If your name is not Freeman or Bacote, I don't want you shooting 3s. (work on it in the offseason/practice)
Mosely was our guy that we need to spread the floor and unfortunately that didn't work out. THus, it's hard to design a good offense that doesn't have a true post up threat and doesn't have 3 point shooters. We have to design an offense around getting Freeman quality shots and most of them end up being mid range jumpers (and attack the glass).
I previously found a site that showed stats on different types of shots in college basketball, but I cant seem to locate at the moment. I would venture to guess that only Freeman makes a decent percentage of mid range jumpers (the worst shot in basketball, but something Freeman is very good at)
Someone brought up next year......I think we will have a much more well rounded team. I was actually shocked to see how well Colbert played at Illinois. He seems like a very good rebounder as well.
Baker and Biberaj both had better shooting percentages from 3 last night than Freeman did. If they didn't take the shots you never would have known that would happen. Can't get locked into one or two players responsible for doing everything offensively. As we saw, even Freeman can have an off shooting night. Makes things too easy to defend and the other players don't progress as they should. What if one or both of them were to be out for any reason (illness, injury, fouls, etc.)? Do we not attempt any 3 pointers then?
A sample size of 1 night is awfully small.
No, we should not shoot 3s if you aren't good at it.
(02-12-2016 11:38 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2016 11:36 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2016 10:55 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]Just a note, Talley is 2 of 10 on the year from 3. Baker is 23-79. Caver is 2-6. If your name is not Freeman or Bacote, I don't want you shooting 3s. (work on it in the offseason/practice)
Mosely was our guy that we need to spread the floor and unfortunately that didn't work out. THus, it's hard to design a good offense that doesn't have a true post up threat and doesn't have 3 point shooters. We have to design an offense around getting Freeman quality shots and most of them end up being mid range jumpers (and attack the glass).
I previously found a site that showed stats on different types of shots in college basketball, but I cant seem to locate at the moment. I would venture to guess that only Freeman makes a decent percentage of mid range jumpers (the worst shot in basketball, but something Freeman is very good at)
Someone brought up next year......I think we will have a much more well rounded team. I was actually shocked to see how well Colbert played at Illinois. He seems like a very good rebounder as well.
Baker and Biberaj both had better shooting percentages from 3 last night than Freeman did. If they didn't take the shots you never would have known that would happen. Can't get locked into one or two players responsible for doing everything offensively. As we saw, even Freeman can have an off shooting night. Makes things too easy to defend and the other players don't progress as they should. What if one or both of them were to be out for any reason (illness, injury, fouls, etc.)? Do we not attempt any 3 pointers then?
A sample size of 1 night is awfully small.
No, we should not shoot 3s if you aren't good at it.
Then you believe that Talley and Caver (and possibly some others) should therefore have the green light since their sample size is not large enough to discredit them? You realize don't you that to make just 1 of 3 from beyond the arc is the equivalent of shooting 50% from inside the arc. By those standards and your own stats, Caver is shooting the equivalent of 50% points wise on his 3 point attempts. Sounds like he should keep that up as long as he doesn't regress in doing so.
No one is saying that people should just go out and start chucking up shots. Of course things have to be within the flow of the offense. We are just commenting that sometimes it appears that good, solid shot opportunities are being passed up by guys that aren't named Freeman. That includes some being passed up by Baycote.