CSNbbs

Saw this and wondered what the former players on here think about how the game is evolving? I personally would no longer want my son to play past high school, and have directed him towards sports I consider less dangerous long term: baseball, soccer, tennis, swimming, golf. However, I still like watching football (well, college football, as I find the pro game these days generally boring).

Seems a lot more former players are having long term issues later in life from having played the game. What have been some of your experiences as you age and do you feel you have problems/injuries related to when you played? Do you think the game is more violent and less safe today than when you played? Would you want your own sons to play beyond high school, and if so, does the level of play matter to you as far as their lifelong safety? Is my feeling correct that sports like baseball, soccer, tennis, swimming, golf, are safer than football these days?

Is $1,500 per helmet worth spending to help provide additional safety per each player, or is it wasted money that could better be used elsewhere in a football program?


See the new football helmet that got funding from the NFL
by: Daniel Roberts Yahoo Finance
Monday, February 01, 2016

Watch the 3-minute video in the story link

NFL players suffered 31.6% more concussions last year than they did in 2014, according to new data released this month. As the New York Times points out, it's possible that the higher numbers simply mean that more concussions were diagnosed last year, not that there were more concussions, but it is an alarming stat nonetheless.

The league knows it has a problem with head injuries. And even if the problem is not new, the league recognizes that fans are more aware of the issue than ever before, thanks to high-profile books, increased media interest, and a big-budget biopic, "Concussion," starring Will Smith as Dr. Bennet Omalu, the neuropathologist credited with discovering chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), the disease found in the brains of many deceased former football players.

A new, safer helmet won't be an instant solution to the crisis, but it is a start. The ZERO1 helmet, from Seattle-based startup VICIS (a spin-out from the University of Washington, which co-developed the helmet) has been in development for more than two years. Now it's ready to show off; VICIS is pulling off the camouflage tape it covered the helmet in for months at public events, and CEO Dave Marver is bringing it around to different college and pro football programs across the country.

Marver tells Yahoo Finance that several NFL programs, plus 10 of the top 20 Division I college football teams, have committed to test the helmets this spring at practice, and that VICIS expects to see the helmet on the NFL field come fall. The NFL does not select a single helmet each season and require players to wear it; rather, the players choose their helmet, and this is one of the dangers: a running back might go for a lighter helmet over one that is safer, but heavier. (The NFL declined to comment on which particular helmet its players choose to wear.)

VICIS (the company name is Latin for "change") named its helmet the ZERO1, Marver says, as a reference to the company's goals: "zero compromises, zero defects, and the road to zero concussions." The helmet contains multiple layers of different material inside to slow acceleration. The front of the helmet crumples a little bit on impact, like a car bumper, which you might think would be a problem, but in fact may be more effective at protecting the skull than more basic helmets that seek to deflect a hit with a hard outer shell.



"Existing helmets haven't changed much since the 1970s," Marver says. "They have a very hard outer shell, and they're designed to protect against skull fracture... they don't do a great job at reducing impact forces, and that's what most people think causes brain injury."

VICIS warns that its helmet can't prevent a concussion from happening. But it can lessen the impact of a hard hit. "We're just hopeful it can reduce risk of concussion and make the sport safer," Marver says. "But ultimately, it's going to take a multifaceted approach: rule changes, increased vigilance, and better equipment."

As far as better equipment goes, the NFL, along with General Electric (GE) and Under Armour (UA), launched the Head Health Challenge in 2013 as part of the NFL and GE’s broader Head Health Initiative. All three of them invested $20 million in a fund to award grants to head-injury solutions. VICIS and the University of Washington were among three final winners of the Head Health Challenge II. The other winners were the U.S. Army (which developed a strap that would connect a player's helmet to his chest to keep the head from jerking back on impact) and Viconic, a Dearborn, Mich., company that makes an underlay for artificial turf to soften impact when a player lands on the ground. University of Washington (with VICIS as its commercial partner) received $750,000 in total funding from the challenge to work on the helmet.

The helmet is the most consumer-facing of these three winning products—the one that is easiest for football fans to understand and get excited about. It'll be ready for players to wear by next season, but whether players will choose to wear it is a different question. As Marver acknowledges, "The athletic trainer, equipment manager, and the player himself all care about different things."

--

Daniel Roberts is a writer at Yahoo Finance, covering sports business and technology.

Ex-football player checking in. Never had a concussion and don't have any long-term problems. If sons want to play football, then they will play. The pussification of America has to stop somewhere. Make the game safer? Sure! Take the game away? Hell no.

I think I'll just leave this here:

https://www.uab.edu/mix/stories/football-helmet-testing

Knowing what I know now, I know for a fact I had multiple concussions growing up and once in particular I think possibly changed my abilities in grade school. In a way possibly having multiple knee surgeries and not being able to continue college football was a in a way a blessing? Who knows? It has def changed my views on letting my 2 Sons possibly play. My 6 year old plays basketball and tee-ball and played a year of soccer but didn't like it. I could potentially get him involved in football next year. I didn't start until 4th grade. I know football can be a very safe sport but the dangerous of young kids to get a head injury where their brains and bodies are still growing out weigh my desire to see my Sons play a sport.

However, if it comes a time where they want to play, I will approve aonly after I see who is coaching, the equipment that is used, and the techniques and credentials of those teaching the game. If there is deficiencies in any of those areas I'll not be approving anything related to football.

Never in my wildest dreams would I ever have thought I'd think or say that.

"Is $1,500 per helmet worth spending to help provide additional safety per each player"

Absolutely. Make those helmets mandatory now, if they exist.

I got a pretty severe concussion when I was 14. I tripped over a hammock on our porch. I kept asking my parents what day it was, then forgetting. They thought I was screwing with them. Imagine that . They didn't take me to a doctor or anything. Damned hippies.

I had 3 concussions in 3 years in high school. Also had another one in a playground accident in elementary school. Puked all night and couldn't see straight for about 24 hours. No side effects and high school was 28 years ago.

A good way to limit them would be to take the helmets off, imo. Players would be more concerned about protecting their heads instead of leading with them.

I'll just say that I was never injured in any way playing football. Tore my knee (tore cartilage and meniscus, sprained ACL), ankles (multiple sprains), and fingers (jams, dislocations, breaks) in basketball. Mild concussion in baseball after taking a line drive to the forehead as 3rd baseman. Luckily glove cushioned the blow.

Every sport has its dangers and every sport can cause injuries and long term damage. I have arthritis in my hands and bad knees from basketball at 29 years old.

My kids will play what ever sport they want as long as it brings them joy. Football isn't what it used to be from even when I played. I was more of a defensive player and played safety. Now days it is much harder to play as a defensive player because of how they handle big hits and tackles. Offensive players always get benefit of the doubt and high hits aren't always they defenders fault.

if one played the game, one knows the violence of said game

at lower levels, one sometimes only ankle tackles

at the collegiate level, one sometimes only ankle tackles

at the nfl level, the steroids kick into illogical judgment levels at the highest rate of speed on impact

as long as the game is played and the 'jiggle within wiggles', the helmet still won't mean shite...

take the helmet off and watch how they play the way it was once played...

all a 'better' helmet would do is prevent less 'fear' in the player....

the players are too big and too fast now....that's the issue that nobody wants to address....

people that don't understand the physics of it crack me up....

gladiators is what draws gate receipts...that's the cold hard fact of the matter....

Never had a concussion but got my hand caught between two helmets once and broke a bone at the knuckle area of my index finger. I just taped two fingers together so I could still catch the ball and kept on going. I'm surprise I didn't end up with a neck injury though. The equipment we had wasn't like to today. The helmets didn't fit as well and I'm pretty sure they weren't much more than a thin piece of plastic with some padding on the inside.

That said, stinkfist hit it. The game today compared to when I played high school back in the 90's is so much different now. These guys are stronger, faster and thicker while still being faster. Concussions are an inevitable part of a collision sport. Rules changes seem to be having a positive effect.

While I believe that there is certainly a pussification of America taking place this is not one of them. Otherwise healthy people are dying in the 20's and 30s from CTE. Others are having life long impacts on their ability to function in society once football is over. When you hear guys like Randel El talk about how he would not have played football if he could go back and do it over that's telling. All of these examples should make people come to the realization that this is a serious health issue.

Who is the last running back to play and be a feature back for more than 10 years in the league? The pounding these guys take at that level is just unreal today versus 15/20 years ago.

If we can implement rules that limit head to head collisions and at the same time offer a safer alternative head protection then we can continue to enjoy the sport while reducing serious injuries.

(02-02-2016 02:55 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote: [ -> ]If we can implement rules that limit head to head collisions and at the same time offer a safer alternative head protection then we can continue to enjoy the sport while reducing serious injuries.

Remove all hard surfaces. At most give the guys a soft-shelled helmet similar to a rugby scrum cap. Same with shoulder pads.

Give them enough protection to prevent fractures and breaks from unintentional head-to-head collisions, but not enough to remove the negative reinforcement from the equation.

If it hurts for you to go flying into a tackle headfirst with reckless abandon, then guess what? You're not going to do it!

Sadly, I think marketing will prevent this from ever happening. Teams don't want to give up the giant logos on the sides of their players' heads.

(02-02-2016 02:55 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote: [ -> ]Never had a concussion but got my hand caught between two helmets once and broke a bone at the knuckle area of my index finger. I just taped two fingers together so I could still catch the ball and kept on going. I'm surprise I didn't end up with a neck injury though. The equipment we had wasn't like to today. The helmets didn't fit as well and I'm pretty sure they weren't much more than a thin piece of plastic with some padding on the inside.

That said, stinkfist hit it. The game today compared to when I played high school back in the 90's is so much different now. These guys are stronger, faster and thicker while still being faster. Concussions are an inevitable part of a collision sport. Rules changes seem to be having a positive effect.

While I believe that there is certainly a pussification of America taking place this is not one of them. Otherwise healthy people are dying in the 20's and 30s from CTE. Others are having life long impacts on their ability to function in society once football is over. When you hear guys like Randel El talk about how he would not have played football if he could go back and do it over that's telling. All of these examples should make people come to the realization that this is a serious health issue.

Who is the last running back to play and be a feature back for more than 10 years in the league? The pounding these guys take at that level is just unreal today versus 15/20 years ago.

If we can implement rules that limit head to head collisions and at the same time offer a safer alternative head protection then we can continue to enjoy the sport while reducing serious injuries.

I'm all for figuring out safety....

however, it has no chance of happening tomorrow...

and may never accomplish the overall goal

mass vs velocity = Gs.....it's that simple....

as a parent, you either allow it, or let them dictate.....

is no different than smoking or drankin' and the consequences.....with the exception that more of 'em are smokin' and drankin'.....and smokin' da weed would easily be the least of the issue in scope (long term)

I find it interesting that smokin' is decreasing and drinking is on the uptick.....who'd a thunk that media exposure and ad dollars would make a difference?

Not necessarily stink. If you look at the new/recently added kickoff and targeting rules both in the NFL and NCAA the numbers show decreases in the number of concussions.

The problem is the league swept this issue under the carpet for so long that they put not only their own at risk, but everyone on down the line from college to high school who follows the NFL's lead on such issues.

While you're always going to have risks and there is no way to limit a concussion it's just pure asinine to not attempt to do things that will prevent serious injuries. The fact that some of these players experienced dozens of concussions in their careers shouldn't happen. One here or there isn't that big of deal, but the pure volume of serious brain injuries experienced by the same players is hard to fathom. That's what can be prevented.

(02-02-2016 05:54 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote: [ -> ]Not necessarily stink. If you look at the new/recently added kickoff and targeting rules both in the NFL and NCAA the numbers show decreases in the number of concussions.

The problem is the league swept this issue under the carpet for so long that they put not only their own at risk, but everyone on down the line from college to high school who follows the NFL's lead on such issues.

While you're always going to have risks and there is no way to limit a concussion it's just pure asinine to not attempt to do things that will prevent serious injuries. The fact that some of these players experienced dozens of concussions in their careers shouldn't happen. One here or there isn't that big of deal, but the pure volume of serious brain injuries experienced by the same players is hard to fathom. That's what can be prevented.

I'll have to agree and disagree at the same time....and that's my point....the money train for some is where those the 'choose to' put their health at risk....

and go upwards in the beginning of the thread where I address the 'helmet issue'

again, it's no different than smokin' or drankin'....I have zero sympathy for the warriors....that's why I watch....

if I wanted to watch 'all get blue ribbons', I check out.....

it's a decision that the person coupled with those that monitor......everything else is bs in my mind...

I read earlier in the week that the NFL reported more concussions this year than last year. That said, it is probably because more concussions are being reported than ever before. In the past even if a player knew he was injured he would still play through it. Peyton pretty much said he sand bagged his preseason response test so he could pass during the season if he thought he could play. That's fine in the pros but that attitude trickles down to the lower levels as well. The new safety rules/ protecols should help protect the kids from themselves but any improvement to equipment should be made as well.

(02-02-2016 06:30 PM)benny_t Wrote: [ -> ]I read earlier in the week that the NFL reported more concussions this year than last year. That said, it is probably because more concussions are being reported than ever before. In the past even if a player knew he was injured he would still play through it. Peyton pretty much said he sand bagged his preseason response test so he could pass during the season if he thought he could play. That's fine in the pros but that attitude trickles down to the lower levels as well. The new safety rules/ protecols should help protect the kids from themselves but any improvement to equipment should be made as well.

there's the crux....

and if one wants to continue to sacrifice, there isn't a test that will stop them....

it is what it is.....and we all pay for the warriors that continue on at some point....

there is no doubting the consequences if you ever played any contact sport....

most boys will do it as long as they can....that's what boys do....

I'm surprised the suicide rate of professional athletes isn't playing in tandem....oopsy, it is.....that only contributes to that overall reason...

those fellers are a select crew (incl college/hs)....most parents/players know it going in at that point....

bigger, faster, stronger.....physics is all this is....

sorry if that sounds harsh, but it is what it is.....the consequences for those that continue to gamble with their skull....and it's a mthrfk'r when you lose that game....

disclaimer: I can't tell you how many times I have to retype or edit....and I made it to 50 quitting early in the game as I type this rhetoric....wouldn't trade either for anything....some plug those things moving forward....it's what fighters of life and soul do...some don't make it....some do....

I have empathy for those that choose either/or....in the beginning, one can only hope it's their choice.....some don't have one.....such is the battle as they become the warrior....

those that understand the preceding will understand why I easily wanted a daughter as my only....

as always, just my two 'sense'....

(02-02-2016 06:30 PM)benny_t Wrote: [ -> ]I read earlier in the week that the NFL reported more concussions this year than last year. That said, it is probably because more concussions are being reported than ever before. In the past even if a player knew he was injured he would still play through it. Peyton pretty much said he sand bagged his preseason response test so he could pass during the season if he thought he could play. That's fine in the pros but that attitude trickles down to the lower levels as well. The new safety rules/ protecols should help protect the kids from themselves but any improvement to equipment should be made as well.

I was going off last year's info. It will be difficult to understand why there was an increase this year. It may be less about it being reported but more about players having better awareness about telling a trainer. You have to imagine some of these guys who are dying early and/or coming talking about how they can't make it up a flight of stairs at the age of 40 are scaring the crap out of them.

The rate of concussions among NFL players fell 25 percent this season, according to the league, even as injury reporting and trips to the injured reserve list rose overall.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/122484...rcent-year

According to USA Today, the NFL recently released a report that says reported concussions have declined nearly 35% over a three year period. Additionally, concussions resulting from helmet-to-helmet hits are also down approximately 43% over the same period. The study documented the number of concussions sustained by NFL players in the 2012, 2013, and 2014 seasons.
http://sports.cbslocal.com/2015/08/06/nf...ince-2012/

Found the reporting from this past season. Indeed, it appears to be a significant increase. Have to believe this is likely due to player awareness about even minor concussions that would normally be ignored but it appears the NFL is already in PR mode by suggesting exactly what you all did about how much better they are at identifying, reporting, blah blah blah. Perhaps the millions of dollars that has been set aside for players who have concussions suddenly makes them more attune to letting their situation be known?

Jeff Miller, the NFL's senior vice president of health and safety policy, said during a conference call the league will study what might have caused the incidence of head injuries to rise so much this season. Among the possible explanations Miller mentioned were a doubling in the number of players screened for possible concussions, "unprecedented levels of players reporting signs and signals of concussions," and the fact that trainers who work as spotters or independent neurologists on sidelines "are much more actively participating in identifying this injury."
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14672860/nfl-says-diagnosed-concussions-way-season

(02-02-2016 09:54 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote: [ -> ]Found the reporting from this past season. Indeed, it appears to be a significant increase. Have to believe this is likely due to player awareness about even minor concussions that would normally be ignored but it appears the NFL is already in PR mode by suggesting exactly what you all did about how much better they are at identifying, reporting, blah blah blah. Perhaps the millions of dollars that has been set aside for players who have concussions suddenly makes them more attune to letting their situation be known?

Jeff Miller, the NFL's senior vice president of health and safety policy, said during a conference call the league will study what might have caused the incidence of head injuries to rise so much this season. Among the possible explanations Miller mentioned were a doubling in the number of players screened for possible concussions, "unprecedented levels of players reporting signs and signals of concussions," and the fact that trainers who work as spotters or independent neurologists on sidelines "are much more actively participating in identifying this injury."
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14672860/nfl-says-diagnosed-concussions-way-season

once again, "because they said it"....

it sickens me to be brutally honest.....all of this bs....

they know....the parents know...the owners know...the MEDIA already knew too...

so what does any of that mean?

(02-04-2016 01:09 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/04/health/fre...index.html

it's funny how smear the queer, backyard football, moto jumping crashes, brawls and countless other 'sans helmet' collisions happened back in my childhood days w/o a whisper floating in the wind.....

all I see is the continuation of sad stories when things don't work out long term for some of the select few....pussification of 'murica media it is

I have zero sympathy regarding this issue...not n'ar none...

humans build things and attempt to improve upon previous designs.....we learn, conquer, and some die trying...it's how we got here

this issue is no different than any other in scope....

one always has a choice....