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The question I would have is this...what teams could the Big XII-II take that would actually help individual teams in the Big XII?

Houston? BYU? Uconn? Cincy? Boise? SDSU?

West Virginia is obviously helped by a neighbor. But for the others, is there really much of a benefit?

I suppose that taking one of BYU/SDSU/Boise and one of Cincy/Uconn might do something. Although it might not help out the football product too much. I suppose it might end the 'Big XII is unstable' meme. If I'm them, I do nothing. If I have to do something, I'd go SDSU and Uconn. Remember, San Diego will probably be losing its NFL team in 2017.

I don't see anyone leaving the Pac12, ACC, SEC, or B1G to join the Big XII-II.

There are some heavy power academic schools in the G5 and some in FCS.

The time have change, and the research dollars are going to other schools as well.

Since we know that no schools west of the Rockies will be invited. I could see New Mexico and Colorado State on the list since they would not be an island. Not sure they want a 5th Texas school in the Big 12. So Houston is out. UConn is too far out, and not a candidate for the Big 12.

Memphis, Cincinnati, East Carolina, UCF, USF and maybe Old Dominion could be the schools. I thought someone said ODU wants to expand their stadium some more.

(02-01-2016 01:17 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]UConn is too far out, and not a candidate for the Big 12.

I completely disagree. UConn is already playing in a conference with SMU, Houston, Tulsa, Tulane and Memphis, so joining the B12 would not be a burden on them. For all other schools, it's only one road trip per year in a handful of sports.

Connecticut is the largest state without a P5 program, and is one of the best supported college sports programs in the Northeast along with Syracuse and Penn State. It would also give the B12 a presence in the Northeast and the NYC area, which would expand interest in the conference outside its traditional southwestern footprint.

(02-01-2016 01:17 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]There are some heavy power academic schools in the G5 and some in FCS.

The time have change, and the research dollars are going to other schools as well.

Since we know that no schools west of the Rockies will be invited. I could see New Mexico and Colorado State on the list since they would not be an island. Not sure they want a 5th Texas school in the Big 12. So Houston is out. UConn is too far out, and not a candidate for the Big 12.

Memphis, Cincinnati, East Carolina, UCF, USF and maybe Old Dominion could be the schools. I thought someone said ODU wants to expand their stadium some more.

I usually ignore your posts, but this one needs a response.

The Big XII is an athletic association, NOT an academic one. The only Conference where academics could trump athletics...thereby causing a school to get invited foremost because of their academic standing would be the Big Ten, where joining the conference also brings an invitation to the CIC.

That doesn't mean academic standing can't DISqualify someone from B12 membership. For example, I could see Memphis getting passed on by the B12 because of their academic reputation. But there is NO...absolutely NO...possibility that the B12 takes ODU, or SUNY-Buffalo, or any other school from FCS because "they are AAU members" or "they get the research dollars."

The metrics the B12 looks at are (in this order of importance):
-Football prestige, history, and size of fanbase.
-Overall market impact and "name" prestige of the school and institutional "fit". ("Our kind of people.")
-Other sports accomplishments beginning with (men's) Basketball, baseball, (women's) basketball, and then Olympic sports...National Championships alone here.
-Academic standing and reputation.

All of them are important for the B12, but academic standing and reputation is at the lower end of the consideration.

They could let WVU test the SEC, ACC waters again without penalty, Go West, after say Houston, BYU, Colorado State to get to 12 without the eastern island. This is coming to a head soon, there is just too much smoke coming out of the Plains not to be believed.

I been following the Big 12 for years for realignment and I know I'll be called an idiot for this but I do like Tulane in the conference. And if you throw in Memphis and Cincinnati and then lets say Southern Miss, then you got ground in SEC (west) country. But I know Southern Miss doesn't have anything going for them at the time so that's out.

Texas - Oklahoma
West Virginia - Cincinnati
Texas Tech - Baylor
Kansas State - Kansas
Iowa State - Oklahoma State
Southern Miss - Memphis
Tulane - TCU

Maybe switch TCU and Baylor.

Then like have annual rival games with Texas and Texas A&M and Tulane and LSU.

(02-01-2016 01:33 PM)MSSTATE_Texan Wrote: [ -> ]I been following the Big 12 for years for realignment and I know I'll be called an idiot for this but I do like Tulane in the conference. And if you throw in Memphis and Cincinnati and then lets say Southern Miss, then you got ground in SEC (west) country. But I know Southern Miss doesn't have anything going for them at the time so that's out.

Texas - Oklahoma
West Virginia - Cincinnati
Texas Tech - Baylor
Kansas State - Kansas
Iowa State - Oklahoma State
Southern Miss - Memphis
Tulane - TCU

Maybe switch TCU and Baylor.

Then like have annual rival games with Texas and Texas A&M and Tulane and LSU.

Rice would get a serious look before Tulane ever would...

(02-01-2016 01:36 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-01-2016 01:33 PM)MSSTATE_Texan Wrote: [ -> ]I been following the Big 12 for years for realignment and I know I'll be called an idiot for this but I do like Tulane in the conference. And if you throw in Memphis and Cincinnati and then lets say Southern Miss, then you got ground in SEC (west) country. But I know Southern Miss doesn't have anything going for them at the time so that's out.

Texas - Oklahoma
West Virginia - Cincinnati
Texas Tech - Baylor
Kansas State - Kansas
Iowa State - Oklahoma State
Southern Miss - Memphis
Tulane - TCU

Maybe switch TCU and Baylor.

Then like have annual rival games with Texas and Texas A&M and Tulane and LSU.

Rice would get a serious look before Tulane ever would...

While that is true, neither would get in before Houston. Or Uconn. Or Cincy. Or Boise. Or BYU. Or SDSU. Or ECU. Or Memphis. Or UCF. Or USF. or Southern Miss.

Tulane and Rice are small schools. They are private. They don't attract casual fans in their communities. Rice cut its' stadium's capacity and Tulane just built a small stadium. Both get smothered by the NFL in their cities.

Rice would get a 'serious look' before Tulane. But neither of them are getting a 'serious look' barring some rather crazy events.

(02-01-2016 01:32 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-01-2016 01:17 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]There are some heavy power academic schools in the G5 and some in FCS.

The time have change, and the research dollars are going to other schools as well.

Since we know that no schools west of the Rockies will be invited. I could see New Mexico and Colorado State on the list since they would not be an island. Not sure they want a 5th Texas school in the Big 12. So Houston is out. UConn is too far out, and not a candidate for the Big 12.

Memphis, Cincinnati, East Carolina, UCF, USF and maybe Old Dominion could be the schools. I thought someone said ODU wants to expand their stadium some more.

I usually ignore your posts, but this one needs a response.

The Big XII is an athletic association, NOT an academic one. The only Conference where academics could trump athletics...thereby causing a school to get invited foremost because of their academic standing would be the Big Ten, where joining the conference also brings an invitation to the CIC.

That doesn't mean academic standing can't DISqualify someone from B12 membership. For example, I could see Memphis getting passed on by the B12 because of their academic reputation. But there is NO...absolutely NO...possibility that the B12 takes ODU, or SUNY-Buffalo, or any other school from FCS because "they are AAU members" or "they get the research dollars."

The metrics the B12 looks at are (in this order of importance):
-Football prestige, history, and size of fanbase.
-Overall market impact and "name" prestige of the school and institutional "fit". ("Our kind of people.")
-Other sports accomplishments beginning with (men's) Basketball, baseball, (women's) basketball, and then Olympic sports...National Championships alone here.
-Academic standing and reputation.

All of them are important for the B12, but academic standing and reputation is at the lower end of the consideration.

Memphis and East Carolina check for number 1.
Memphis does have a market impact nationally for their basketball. Plus their fans have been loyal to them in football even in losing years.
East Carolina, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF, USF and even ODU have some good fan support that never really dropped in football.

How I think the Big 12 is leaning right now:

Pro-Expansion

Oklahoma - duh

OSU - want OU to be happy and stay put so their program is not put at risk of being left out

Baylor/TCU - Both need a stable Big 12 and don't want to risk getting left out again. However, unlike OU do not want any expansion from TX

WVU - tired of being on an island and want either someone geographically closer or their access to Florida restored.

Anti-Expansion

UT - duh

TTU - probably doesn't care as long as more TX teams aren't added but will vote with UT because ensuring a coattail ride out of the B12 if things get real is more important.

KSU - As the North's only other FB school, being cut off from the OK and TX schools and put in a new B12 North is not in their best interests from a fan and recruiting point.

KU - Jayhawks seem to like the current B12 Basketball set up and don't want to see the old division restored. Plus they have options if anything happens.

Could go either way

ISU - All they want is to continue having a Power Conference home and they know if the Big 12 dissolves they are deep trouble and will vote whichever way they see as the path to a B12 not breaking up.

Big 12 needs to wait out the GOR and then add Clemson and FSU.

(02-01-2016 01:50 PM)10thMountain Wrote: [ -> ]How I think the Big 12 is leaning right now:

Pro-Expansion

Oklahoma - duh

OSU - want OU to be happy and stay put so their program is not put at risk of being left out

Baylor/TCU - Both need a stable Big 12 and don't want to risk getting left out again. However, unlike OU do not want any expansion from TX

WVU - tired of being on an island and want either someone geographically closer or their access to Florida restored.

Anti-Expansion

UT - duh

TTU - probably doesn't care as long as more TX teams aren't added but will vote with UT because ensuring a coattail ride out of the B12 if things get real is more important.

KSU - As the North's only other FB school, being cut off from the OK and TX schools and put in a new B12 North is not in their best interests from a fan and recruiting point.

KU - Jayhawks seem to like the current B12 Basketball set up and don't want to see the old division restored. Plus they have options if anything happens.

Could go either way

ISU - All they want is to continue having a Power Conference home and they know if the Big 12 dissolves they are deep trouble and will vote whichever way they see as the path to a B12 not breaking up.

I think the conference is fairly united in the "whatever brings stability" camp. The debatable question is about what moves (or lack of moves) bring the most stability.

Isn't ISU on an island too, though not as far from the "mainland"?

(02-01-2016 01:31 PM)orangefan Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-01-2016 01:17 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]UConn is too far out, and not a candidate for the Big 12.

I completely disagree. UConn is already playing in a conference with SMU, Houston, Tulsa, Tulane and Memphis, so joining the B12 would not be a burden on them. For all other schools, it's only one road trip per year in a handful of sports.

Connecticut is the largest state without a P5 program, and is one of the best supported college sports programs in the Northeast along with Syracuse and Penn State. It would also give the B12 a presence in the Northeast and the NYC area, which would expand interest in the conference outside its traditional southwestern footprint.

But the question isn't whether the Big 12 would be a good option for UConn. It is whether UConn is a good option for the Big 12. The fans of 9 of the 10 current members really aren't going to get excited about any of the assets the Huskies may bring to the table. Especially since none of those assets are football related. The Big 12 doesn't need or want a presence in the northeast.

The problem facing the Big 12 is that no realistically available expansion candidates truly expand their reach in a way that would make a conference network viable. And if Boren really means it when he says no B12 network, no Oklahoma, then I believe he is saying OU is available to the Big Ten (first priority) or the SEC. The only question remains which current B12 schools will go with them.

(02-01-2016 01:42 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-01-2016 01:36 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-01-2016 01:33 PM)MSSTATE_Texan Wrote: [ -> ]I been following the Big 12 for years for realignment and I know I'll be called an idiot for this but I do like Tulane in the conference. And if you throw in Memphis and Cincinnati and then lets say Southern Miss, then you got ground in SEC (west) country. But I know Southern Miss doesn't have anything going for them at the time so that's out.

Texas - Oklahoma
West Virginia - Cincinnati
Texas Tech - Baylor
Kansas State - Kansas
Iowa State - Oklahoma State
Southern Miss - Memphis
Tulane - TCU

Maybe switch TCU and Baylor.

Then like have annual rival games with Texas and Texas A&M and Tulane and LSU.

Rice would get a serious look before Tulane ever would...

While that is true, neither would get in before Houston. Or Uconn. Or Cincy. Or Boise. Or BYU. Or SDSU. Or ECU. Or Memphis. Or UCF. Or USF. or Southern Miss.

Tulane and Rice are small schools. They are private. They don't attract casual fans in their communities. Rice cut its' stadium's capacity and Tulane just built a small stadium. Both get smothered by the NFL in their cities.

Rice would get a 'serious look' before Tulane. But neither of them are getting a 'serious look' barring some rather crazy events.

Tulane definitely over Rice. There is absolutely no shot of Rice getting into the B12 with Houston in their city. Rice has 3800 undergrads and 6500 total students, Tulane 8400 undergrads and 13500 total. Rice is a great school with a massive endowment but it adds nothing to the B12 especialyl considering Houston is a more viable option if they B12 wants even deeper Houston penetration. Tulane offers little but it does add a new market, premier college sports city, academics and most of a ll a new commitment to athletics (new assets, new AD, solid FBall hire, soon to be new Bball with an AD from a Bball school). Just look at the AAC taking a putrid Tulane program over Rice.

(02-01-2016 01:56 PM)Artifice Wrote: [ -> ]Big 12 needs to wait out the GOR and then add Clemson and FSU.

They would have moved in 2012 if They had wanted to. That ship sailed out Looong ago.

If the Big 12 goes, the ACC had better try to land a brand or two or the resultant action will only serve to distance the ACC even more from the Big 10 and/or the SEC.

(02-01-2016 02:02 PM)Erictelevision Wrote: [ -> ]Isn't ISU on an island too, though not as far from the "mainland"?

ISU is approx. 300-350 miles from the KS schools

So they're no more on an island than TTU is since that about the same distance between Lubbock and Fort Worth

(02-01-2016 01:56 PM)Artifice Wrote: [ -> ]Big 12 needs to wait out the GOR and then add Clemson and FSU.

What makes you think that either have any interest in the Big 12