CSNbbs

Well, in light of what happened in the basketball thread with UTSA, I thought I'd start just one thread where we can have all the B word analysis, opinion, discussion, flaming, etc... posted to help keep the other threads clean(er).

Coach B word does look to have survived yet again, and will be back for his upcoming 10th season.

Anyone who wants to provide more information and analysis, how about one central thread where we can have it all together?

I'm less than thrilled there have been no changes announced publicly so far. JK did refer to changes on the way in his podcast, but was unclear what they'd actually be. I don't know at this time how he really feels about the B word, as he's indicated things both pro and con at times in the past. But generally keeping his cards close to his vest. So not sure if anyone or anything else may or may not be tying his hands.

I have some friends who went to Army here locally, and we'll all get together to watch the first game of 2016 season. They are pretty excited about it even now as they feel that they have an excellent chance to win since its at their placer, and they almost pulled it off on the road at HRS this past season. Other than Navy, they tell me they focus on the upcoming season's first game in advance, so it seems there will be a bit more than usual interest in the game around the country, at least from Army supporters.

I'd still be interested in seeing those coaching comparisons on one chart between our last few head football coaches, Ant. You can post them here if you'd like. Or not.

In the spirit of this thread, here's how promoting our head football coach's successes here at Rice looks to some others in the conference:

(01-06-2016 01:16 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-06-2016 01:12 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-05-2016 02:07 PM)FlyHawk98 Wrote: [ -> ]Good for UTSA. You guys have already established a nice core fan base. This shows them you are not going to settle with being mediocre.

Plus a good hire could re-energize the fan base, and create some buzz.

Hope you guys make a good hire.

How about going after Bailiff? He knows Texas recruiting, familiar with your area, has had unprecedented success at Rice, at least according to some, and could use a change of scenery and lesser recruiting restrictions. Plus, believes in the meercat. What's not to like?

The expression in the picture looks to me like someone watching most of our football games would often look this past decade.

So...when Bailiff comes forward to confess all his sins before you, will you be satisfied with that and returning any money he's ever received for coaching football, or will he need to join you on bended knee in anointing Rhoades as the Savior of all thing holy, too?

Geez.

(01-07-2016 02:08 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ]Rhoades's first year was better than Bailiff's first year.
Bailiff's second year was far better than Rhoades's second year so far.
But improvement in athletics is seldom linear. I'm okay with a step back this year if we make a huge step forward next year.
I expect that Rhoades's third year will turn out to be substantially better than Bailiff's third year. If not, then I would expect Rhoades to get the same level of scrutiny and criticism that we have imposed on Bailiff. That seems eminently fair to me.

I'll reply to this here.

I do keep in mind that Rhoades inherited a team at the very bottom from Braun, a head Coach at the end of his career, who shifted gears into broadcasting the next season, who called some of his successor's games as an announcer, and who admitted on air a few times that Coach Rhoades was getting more out of the players Braun recruited that he did. Braun I believe is still a supporter of both Rice and of Coach Rhoades, which is nice to see it has seemingly worked out well for everyone so far.

Here's how Rhoades compares so far to Rice's recent Men's Basketball Head Coaches going back to the last time we were in the NCAAs, 1970:


So, despite the poor start again this season, Rhoades is still doing better than Coach Braun so far. Braun had the following records in his first two years:

BB 2008-09 10-22 .312
BB 2009-10 8-23 .258
BB first 2 years: 18-45 .286

In Wilson's first two seasons, keep in mind he inherited a program that had already been rehabilitated by his predecessor, Scott Thompson, who chose not to stick around to see it through:

WTW 1992-93 18-10 .643
WTW 1993-94 15-14 .517
WTW first 2 years: 33-24 .578

Scott Thompson, who came in after Tommy Suitts/Greg Walcavich had gone 8-19 in 1986-1987 (see, Rice has gotten rid of a coach mid-season!) inherited a real dumpster fire. Autry Court was old and unairconditioned. The locker room facilities were as bad or worse than the present football locker room is reported to be. Thompson had the school spend upfront to renovate the basketball locker room before his first season started.

Thompson turned the negative of Rice's unairconditioned gym into a fearsome asset, by encouraging the "Jungle Gym" theme and atmosphere amongst his players, fans and running with the moniker bestowed by the DMN writer who so dubbed it. Getting a suspended floor to help prevent injuries was, in my opinion, far more important to helping the Owls than the air conditioning, which was more for fan comfort, but skewed to the Owls' advantage when hosting opponents who were not used to it.

Thompson, starting from basically ground zero (he had inherited D'Wayne Tanner, Andy Gilchrist and an injured Glenn Youngkin, of Youngkin center fame) and had brought in his first freshman class of David Willie and Chip Scott) had the following record his first two years here:

ST 1987-88 6-21 .222
ST 1988-89 12-16 .428
ST first two years: 18-37 .327


Okay, turning to the B word:
I do keep in mind that the Bword inherited a team somewhat rehabilitated and on the way up, fresh off a bowl season from Todd Graham. It was Todd Graham that inherited the team at the very bottom (1-11) from Hatfield and had to do a lot of heavy lifting to change a culture that had grown quite stagnant in many ways....Hatfield, who despite some very successful (by then Rice standards) seasons that would have already put Rice in several bowl games if there had been the bloated number of lesser bowls there have been this past decade, with 3 winning seasons against a higher level of competition overall for much of his career here at Rice, including a co-SWC Conference Championship in 1994. Graham was a head Coach at the very beginning of his career, who shifted gears (and schools) into becoming a Top 10 head football coach at a P5 school, where he remains (so far) today. I'm not saying I wish he was still here. I am saying we really needed a guy like him to shake us up at the time, and we could use one again now, in my opinion.

Graham's 2006 Rice team was 7-6 that season, including the bowl loss to Troy in the New Orleans bowl, Rice's first bowl appearance in decades since the 1961 BlueBonnet Bowl at Rice Stadium in 1961. Graham, for all his travels, has had just 2 losing seasons so far in his entire 10-year coaching career, one more year than Coach Bword. Graham has gone to 9 bowl games in those 10 years. Bword has gone to just 4 in his 9 years so far.

Here's how Bailiff compares so far to Rice's recent Men's Football Head Coaches going back to the last time we were really relevant nationally in football, around the early 1960s:



So, we can chew on some of those numbers and comparisons.

If anyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, from the get-go, it would be Coach Goldsmith in football, and Coaches Rhodes, Thompson, and Braun (who inherited a real mess from Wilson's end and after the season-in-the-wilderness, remember) and Coach Graham in baseball.

Bailiff inherited a relative plumb by Rice standards not by national football standards. He did raise the level somewhat, has been on a roller-coaster with varying hills and valleys his decade here, and has Rice more or less back to basically where the program was after Graham left 10 years ago when Bailiff started here.

That will hopefully explain to some of you why I am so far still very enamored with Coach Rhoades and what he is doing, despite the present record, and why I have long since given up on the Bword doing much beyond what he has already accomplished here.

Now, I agree with Owl69 above, if Coach Rhodes is tanking it in 3 to 4 years, with his own recruits and a chance to establish his style, system and assistants of his choice here, I'll be getting my basketball pitchfork out as well. At this point, I feel my basketball pitchfork will collect a lot of rust in storage before it is needed again in basketball.

And this season is not over yet in basketball. Though it looks a bit more difficult so far than last year where he could rely on the senior leadership of leftovers Gearhart and Peera (who Rhoades helped transform into playas by his coaching) I still hold out hope our basketball team will improve this season. But, I have said before, the way it has played out, this looks like another season 1. Next year we should see some better improvement with a bit more depth and more of Rhoades' own recruits, not to mention Lott and Jackson hopefully back and no worse for the wear of their difficult injuries (fingers crossed).

Meantime, I just want to see more defensive effort and hands up instead of at their sides, and more movement w/o the ball on offense to improve the flow. The per-game scoring average appears to be trending up in the right direction. One more solid player available would have made a huge difference in basketball so far in my opinion.

In football it would take a lot more than just one player, and I'm not sold that coach Bword knows how to use them as effectively to maximize their potential with what he has shown this past decade here. My gut feeling and eyeball observation is that our football players win games in spite of our system as much as because of it. In other words, they battle the opponent and their own coaching each game. Not so in basketball, in my opinion, so far. I think this years' basketball team would be worse with either Braun or Wilson (or Walchovich/Suitts) at this point.

All just my opinions. Agree or disagree if you wish.

*btw: lining up all that data, even with using the 'code' command, is still a real pain. Why does the spacing still space out, and is there an easier way to get it right w/o individually space-barring things each item? I seem to recall we used to have a sticky on posting tricks and how-to advice on this board, but it was removed a few years ago. Thanks.

(01-07-2016 04:06 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ]

Code:

David Bailiff  2007–pres   53–60       .469
Todd Graham    2006        7–6         .538     
Ken Hatfield   1994–2005   55–78–1     .410     
Fred Goldsmith 1989-93     23–31–1     .427     
Jerry Berndt   1986-88     6–27–0      .182     
Watson Brown   1984-85     4–18–0      .182     
Ray Alborn     1978-83     13–53–0     .197     
Homer Rice     1976-77     4–18–0      .182     
Al Conover     1972-75     14–28–2     .341     
Bill Peterson  1971        3–7–1       .318     
Bo Hagan       1967-70     12–27–1     .313     
Jess Neely     1940-66     144–124–10  .536

Looking at the raw numbers from my chart posted above, yes, Bailiff has the third-best winning percentage as a Rice football head coach after Neely and Todd graham. Fred Goldsmith is next in that list, followed by Hatfield.

Now, is Graham the best head coach at Rice, better than Neely? In my opinion, no.

Neely was and is still the best Rice head football coach so far. Followed by Goldsmith, in my opinion, then Hatfield, next Todd Graham, then comes Bailiff in at #4 on this lost so far. I think Goldsmith and Hatfield were both better coaches at Rice than Bailiff all things considered. Graham is harder to say, since we just have the one season. At worst it is a push, but Graham had much more heavy lifting to do than Bailiff in my opinion, and did a lot more a lot faster, and did more himself.

Of course, we saw how taking things into his own hands left us high and dry, but if we'd had a more cooperative AD and dept situation, perhaps Graham could have stuck more to just coaching, and perhaps he would have behaved somewhat differently instead of looking to leave so soon. Plus, his subsequent coaching success tells me he's the better coach than Bailiff overall.

To me, the most amazing thing about Todd Graham is that he hasn't landed anybody on probation yet.

(01-07-2016 04:22 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ]To me, the most amazing thing about Todd Graham is that he hasn't landed anybody on probation yet.

save it for the "G" word thread.

J/K

(01-07-2016 04:21 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-07-2016 04:06 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ]

Code:

David Bailiff  2007–pres   53–60       .469
Todd Graham    2006        7–6         .538     
Ken Hatfield   1994–2005   55–78–1     .410     
Fred Goldsmith 1989-93     23–31–1     .427     
Jerry Berndt   1986-88     6–27–0      .182     
Watson Brown   1984-85     4–18–0      .182     
Ray Alborn     1978-83     13–53–0     .197     
Homer Rice     1976-77     4–18–0      .182     
Al Conover     1972-75     14–28–2     .341     
Bill Peterson  1971        3–7–1       .318     
Bo Hagan       1967-70     12–27–1     .313     
Jess Neely     1940-66     144–124–10  .536

Speaking of G word--that would be G for Goldsmith, who pretty much did most of the heavy lifting for Rice football--and in the SWC, no less. I was here for Brown/Berndt/Goldsmith, so I can attest to how futily bad we were in football back then. Yes, losing every game in a season stinks just a tad more than this past 5-7 season with wins against nobodys, but not a whole lot worse. Arguably, there were still more fans in the stands back in the late 80's/early 90's, attesting to both the better quality of and relevance of more of the opponents back then.

The miracle-worker Goldsmith left to go to Duke and a chance at coaching a P5 school, perhaps thinking he could follow in a Spurrier-like path, more likely seeing the writing on the wall with the pending breakup of the SWC.

Looking at the chart of the record above, Bailiff inherited among the best situations for a Rice head football coach and has arguably not done a whole lot with it. The beef I have for those who say we could do worse and that he's not that bad a coach, is yes, we could go back to Berndt-and Brown-level performances, except we are in CUSA 3.14159 now, and there are almost double the bowl games now, with more on the way (Austin Bowl, anyone? Totally unnecessary at this point, but I digress.)

Considering the overall records of the 3 coaches who immediately preceded him, Bailiff has been at best a caretaker head coach, overseeing our various AD transitions and the further downgrade of our conference to near Sunbelt level. Not entirely his fault, but he is also not totally without blame, as Owl69 has pointed out, if he had raised the bar clearly by having several 9 and 10 win seasons each of these past 9 years instead of what he led us to, it might have given others pause enough to take a serious look at Rice. At the least, I think it's not a stretch to say that kind of performance would have had Rice invited to the AAC instead of Tulsa, coached mostly at the time to winning records by...Todd Graham...the other G word. They are smaller in enrollment than us, and are also private school, by the way, and in a smaller media market.

The jump in overall performance for Rice definitely came with Goldsmith, and, dare I say it, we have been on a relative plateau at about the level Fred Goldsmith established for Rice, give or take a little, ever since.

What we could really use is someone capable of taking Rice higher than the level we are at now.

And, to be fair, Goldsmith accomplished that jump up WITHOUT:

-no EZF, and not even a plan for one (like Bword had under RG) or one under construction (like Bword has had under JK)
-no stadium renovations like Todd Graham engineered before his one season here, removing and replacing all the old wooden splinter bench seating, pressure washing and painting the stadium, (hey, I was one who actually liked the sine-waves on the bottom bowl to jazz things up), building a new scoreboard (since demolished)
-oh yeah, how could we forget the old worn out astroturf over concrete crowned football field vs the new fieldturf-style level playing field Todd Graham had installed before his one season here and which Bailiff has had the benefit of for his ten years, even having the not-that-old entire surface replaced already once in his tenure.
-no bowl game right before he took over to build on
-a president and especially faculty not as favorable towards athletics, football in particular
-a school that turned down an opportunity to go SEC with Arkansas because it would not, you guess it, invest its money in its football program
-coming off a previous coaching regime that had the nation's longest losing streak at one point
-a more hostile BOT
-a lesser salary and budget for staff and assistants
-even worse branding (no OER yet) and no proof Rice could succeed in any sport (Thompson not fully successful yet in Hoops and no OG National championship, in fact, no OG on campus yet)
-an even smaller student body from which to draw fans and fees, measurably so, and thus
-less alumni overall,
-and a recent alumni base with no idea even mediocrity was an achievable result at Rice in most sports, football in particular
-Rice student life and facilities did not merit the label of happiest students at the time, by far (remember Joyce's Central Kitchen, anyone? The "rusted cage" student weight room at the old (unairconditioned) student gym)

To be fair: Rice did still own KTRU, and we had a much better looking Sammy the Owl back then.


So, yes, it can be done in football with just a head coach, although it does take the right head football coach, a special head coach to do it when things are not all lined up in his favor. That's also why I think Goldsmith was the second-best Rice football head coach so far.

With the scheduling of LSU in 2018, anyone really think Bailiff will have Rice ready to maybe steal that game on the road by then?

(01-07-2016 04:55 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-07-2016 04:22 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ]To me, the most amazing thing about Todd Graham is that he hasn't landed anybody on probation yet.

save it for the "G" word thread.

LOL

(01-07-2016 04:06 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-07-2016 02:08 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ]Rhoades's first year was better than Bailiff's first year.
Bailiff's second year was far better than Rhoades's second year so far.
But improvement in athletics is seldom linear. I'm okay with a step back this year if we make a huge step forward next year.
I expect that Rhoades's third year will turn out to be substantially better than Bailiff's third year. If not, then I would expect Rhoades to get the same level of scrutiny and criticism that we have imposed on Bailiff. That seems eminently fair to me.

I'll reply to this here.

I do keep in mind that Rhoades inherited a team at the very bottom from Braun, a head Coach at the end of his career, who shifted gears into broadcasting the next season, who called some of his successor's games as an announcer, and who admitted on air a few times that Coach Rhoades was getting more out of the players Braun recruited that he did. Braun I believe is still a supporter of both Rice and of Coach Rhoades, which is nice to see it has seemingly worked out well for everyone so far.

Here's how Rhoades compares so far to Rice's recent Men's Basketball Head Coaches going back to the last time we were in the NCAAs, 1970:

Code:

Don Knodel       1966-1974     76-127    .374
Bob Polk         1974-1977     17-63     .212
Mike Schuler     1977-1981     30-76     .283
Tommy Suitts     1981-1987     64-106    .376
Scott Thompson   1987-1992     65-79     .451
Willis Wilson    1992-2008     219-246   .471
Ben Braun        2008-2014     63-128    .330
Mike Rhoades     2014-pres     17-30     .362

So, despite the poor start again this season, Rhoades is still doing better than Coach Braun so far. Braun had the following records in his first two years:

BB 2008-09 10-22 .312
BB 2009-10 8-23 .258
BB first 2 years: 18-45 .286

In Wilson's first two seasons, keep in mind he inherited a program that had already been rehabilitated by his predecessor, Scott Thompson, who chose not to stick around to see it through:

WTW 1992-93 18-10 .643
WTW 1993-94 15-14 .517
WTW first 2 years: 33-24 .578

Scott Thompson, who came in after Tommy Suitts/Greg Walcavich had gone 8-19 in 1986-1987 (see, Rice has gotten rid of a coach mid-season!) inherited a real dumpster fire. Autry Court was old and unairconditioned. The locker room facilities were as bad or worse than the present football locker room is reported to be. Thompson had the school spend upfront to renovate the basketball locker room before his first season started.

Thompson turned the negative of Rice's unairconditioned gym into a fearsome asset, by encouraging the "Jungle Gym" theme and atmosphere amongst his players, fans and running with the moniker bestowed by the DMN writer who so dubbed it. Getting a suspended floor to help prevent injuries was, in my opinion, far more important to helping the Owls than the air conditioning, which was more for fan comfort, but skewed to the Owls' advantage when hosting opponents who were not used to it.

Thompson, starting from basically ground zero (he had inherited D'Wayne Tanner, Andy Gilchrist and an injured Glenn Youngkin, of Youngkin center fame) and had brought in his first freshman class of David Willie and Chip Scott) had the following record his first two years here:

ST 1987-88 6-21 .222
ST 1988-89 12-16 .428
ST first two years: 18-37 .327


Okay, turning to the B word:
I do keep in mind that the Bword inherited a team somewhat rehabilitated and on the way up, fresh off a bowl season from Todd Graham. It was Todd Graham that inherited the team at the very bottom (1-11) from Hatfield and had to do a lot of heavy lifting to change a culture that had grown quite stagnant in many ways....Hatfield, who despite some very successful (by then Rice standards) seasons that would have already put Rice in several bowl games if there had been the bloated number of lesser bowls there have been this past decade, with 3 winning seasons against a higher level of competition overall for much of his career here at Rice, including a co-SWC Conference Championship in 1994. Graham was a head Coach at the very beginning of his career, who shifted gears (and schools) into becoming a Top 10 head football coach at a P5 school, where he remains (so far) today. I'm not saying I wish he was still here. I am saying we really needed a guy like him to shake us up at the time, and we could use one again now, in my opinion.

Graham's 2006 Rice team was 7-6 that season, including the bowl loss to Troy in the New Orleans bowl, Rice's first bowl appearance in decades since the 1961 BlueBonnet Bowl at Rice Stadium in 1961. Graham, for all his travels, has had just 2 losing seasons so far in his entire 10-year coaching career, one more year than Coach Bword. Graham has gone to 9 bowl games in those 10 years. Bword has gone to just 4 in his 9 years so far.

Here's how Bailiff compares so far to Rice's recent Men's Football Head Coaches going back to the last time we were really relevant nationally in football, around the early 1960s:

Code:

David Bailiff  2007–pres   48–53       .475
Todd Graham    2006        7–6         .538     
Ken Hatfield   1994–2005   55–78–1     .410     
Fred Goldsmith 1989-93     23–31–1     .427     
Jerry Berndt   1986-88     6–27–0      .182     
Watson Brown   1984-85     4–18–0      .182     
Ray Alborn     1978-83     13–53–0     .197     
Homer Rice     1976-77     4–18–0      .182     
Al Conover     1972-75     14–28–2     .341     
Bill Peterson  1971        3–7–1       .318     
Bo Hagan       1967-70     12–27–1     .313     
Jess Neely     1940-66     144–124–10  .536

So, we can chew on some of those numbers and comparisons.

If anyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, from the get-go, it would be Coach Goldsmith in football, and Coaches Rhodes, Thompson, and Braun (who inherited a real mess from Wilson's end and after the season-in-the-wilderness, remember) and Coach Graham in baseball.

Bailiff inherited a relative plumb by Rice standards not by national football standards. He did raise the level somewhat, has been on a roller-coaster with varying hills and valleys his decade here, and has Rice more or less back to basically where the program was after Graham left 10 years ago when Bailiff started here.

That will hopefully explain to some of you why I am so far still very enamored with Coach Rhoades and what he is doing, despite the present record, and why I have long since given up on the Bword doing much beyond what he has already accomplished here.

Now, I agree with Owl69 above, if Coach Rhodes is tanking it in 3 to 4 years, with his own recruits and a chance to establish his style, system and assistants of his choice here, I'll be getting my basketball pitchfork out as well. At this point, I feel my basketball pitchfork will collect a lot of rust in storage before it is needed again in basketball.

And this season is not over yet in basketball. Though it looks a bit more difficult so far than last year where he could rely on the senior leadership of leftovers Gearhart and Peera (who Rhoades helped transform into playas by his coaching) I still hold out hope our basketball team will improve this season. But, I have said before, the way it has played out, this looks like another season 1. Next year we should see some better improvement with a bit more depth and more of Rhoades' own recruits, not to mention Lott and Jackson hopefully back and no worse for the wear of their difficult injuries (fingers crossed).

Meantime, I just want to see more defensive effort and hands up instead of at their sides, and more movement w/o the ball on offense to improve the flow. The per-game scoring average appears to be trending up in the right direction. One more solid player available would have made a huge difference in basketball so far in my opinion.

In football it would take a lot more than just one player, and I'm not sold that coach Bword knows how to use them as effectively to maximize their potential with what he has shown this past decade here. My gut feeling and eyeball observation is that our football players win games in spite of our system as much as because of it. In other words, they battle the opponent and their own coaching each game. Not so in basketball, in my opinion, so far. I think this years' basketball team would be worse with either Braun or Wilson (or Walchovich/Suitts) at this point.

All just my opinions. Agree or disagree if you wish.

*btw: lining up all that data, even with using the 'code' command, is still a real pain. Why does the spacing still space out, and is there an easier way to get it right w/o individually space-barring things each item? I seem to recall we used to have a sticky on posting tricks and how-to advice on this board, but it was removed a few years ago. Thanks.

without sounding like a heretic, I am perversely a bit OK that the MBB season is a tad disappointing. If we reel off 16 plus wins this year, we may well be fighting more suitors for Rhodes, and may not necessarily win those battles again. So, though I LOVE winning, can deal w waiting a year to see what he can do w the return of the wounded warriors, and another recruiting class

I like coach Rword. I like his approach. I think he will be successful here. I expect be in the running for the Big Dance year after next. I know his current season is a little less successful than hoped for, and I am sure that injuries are among the reasons/excuses for that happening.

But trying to compare coach Bword to Coach Rword at any point of their careers or the current season is the ultimate in mixing apples and oranges.

This is getting ridiculous.

(01-07-2016 01:29 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ]I'm less than thrilled there have been no changes announced publicly so far. JK did refer to changes on the way in his podcast, but was unclear what they'd actually be.

I'm not sure what the "changes" will be, but JK isn't the only one to reference them. Some of Stephanie Kuzydym's last few tweets:

Stephanie Kuzydym Wrote:Coach Bailiff will make some changes in how everything is run. This year's results hurt him because he saw hurt in his players.

Stephanie Kuzydym Wrote:Those changes have already begun although I can't disclose them to you. Just know Rice still has bowl game expectations.

(01-08-2016 11:40 AM)mrbig Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-07-2016 01:29 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ]I'm less than thrilled there have been no changes announced publicly so far. JK did refer to changes on the way in his podcast, but was unclear what they'd actually be.

I'm not sure what the "changes" will be, but JK isn't the only one to reference them. Some of Stephanie Kuzydym's last few tweets:

Stephanie Kuzydym Wrote:Coach Bailiff will make some changes in how everything is run. This year's results hurt him because he saw hurt in his players.

Stephanie Kuzydym Wrote:Those changes have already begun although I can't disclose them to you. Just know Rice still has bowl game expectations.

Who was hurt more? Coach B's emotions? The players' confidence? Fans' heads as they were repeatedly banged against the wall in frustration? Or the eyeballs of anyone who had to watch us play this year as they were slowly gauged out?

I vote #4.

(01-08-2016 11:40 AM)mrbig Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-07-2016 01:29 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ]I'm less than thrilled there have been no changes announced publicly so far. JK did refer to changes on the way in his podcast, but was unclear what they'd actually be.

I'm not sure what the "changes" will be, but JK isn't the only one to reference them. Some of Stephanie Kuzydym's last few tweets:
Coach Bailiff will make some changes in how everything is run. This year's results hurt him because he saw hurt in his players.

Those changes have already begun although I can't disclose them to you. Just know Rice still has bowl game expectations.

What does "bowl game expectations" really mean today? The soon-to-be-approved Austin Bowl next season. We just missed a bowl last season, so the bar has been lowered to 5 or at most 6 wins to meet that. If she had said 'Access Bowl expectations" a la UH, it would have meant something.

Bailiff should run for office, that is his real talent: appearing to say something that makes a commitment without committing to anything and still drawing a fat paycheck while attending banquets paid by others in your honor. I know how cynical that sounds, but really, I am complimenting the man: Bailiff has a real talent that is wasted as a football coach, he could really clean up as a do-nothing politician. And he's so nice, people would vote for him like they did Bubba.

(01-08-2016 11:47 AM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-08-2016 11:40 AM)mrbig Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-07-2016 01:29 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ]I'm less than thrilled there have been no changes announced publicly so far. JK did refer to changes on the way in his podcast, but was unclear what they'd actually be.

I'm not sure what the "changes" will be, but JK isn't the only one to reference them. Some of Stephanie Kuzydym's last few tweets:
Coach Bailiff will make some changes in how everything is run. This year's results hurt him because he saw hurt in his players.

Those changes have already begun although I can't disclose them to you. Just know Rice still has bowl game expectations.

What does "bowl game expectations" really mean today? The soon-to-be-approved Austin Bowl next season. We just missed a bowl last season, so the bar has been lowered to 5 or at most 6 wins to meet that. If she had said 'Access Bowl expectations" a la UH, it would have meant something.

Bailiff should run for office, that is his real talent: appearing to say something that makes a commitment without committing to anything and still drawing a fat paycheck while attending banquets paid by others in your honor. I know how cynical that sounds, but really, I am complimenting the man: Bailiff has a real talent that is wasted as a football coach, he could really clean up as a do-nothing politician. And he's so nice, people would vote for him like they did Bubba.

I think it is pretty clear what the expectation means today: making a bowl.

I think you more have issue that you don't think making a bowl is a big deal and an expectation that needs to be publicly stated because it only requires 6 wins.

There is no way that making a NY6 bowl should be an "expectation," because there are very few programs where that would be anywhere close to a legitimate expectation, and we are certainly not one of those, simply due to the conference we currently reside in. I bet UH didn't have NY6 Bowl "expectations" going into the year. It very well could be a goal for us to make a bowl of that prestige, but there is a big difference between goal and expectation, especially when there is only one spot for all of the G5 teams in the NY6 Bowls

(01-08-2016 11:47 AM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-08-2016 11:40 AM)mrbig Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-07-2016 01:29 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ]I'm less than thrilled there have been no changes announced publicly so far. JK did refer to changes on the way in his podcast, but was unclear what they'd actually be.

I'm not sure what the "changes" will be, but JK isn't the only one to reference them. Some of Stephanie Kuzydym's last few tweets:
Coach Bailiff will make some changes in how everything is run. This year's results hurt him because he saw hurt in his players.

Those changes have already begun although I can't disclose them to you. Just know Rice still has bowl game expectations.

What does "bowl game expectations" really mean today? The soon-to-be-approved Austin Bowl next season. We just missed a bowl last season, so the bar has been lowered to 5 or at most 6 wins to meet that. If she had said 'Access Bowl expectations" a la UH, it would have meant something.

Bailiff should run for office, that is his real talent: appearing to say something that makes a commitment without committing to anything and still drawing a fat paycheck while attending banquets paid by others in your honor. I know how cynical that sounds, but really, I am complimenting the man: Bailiff has a real talent that is wasted as a football coach, he could really clean up as a do-nothing politician. And he's so nice, people would vote for him like they did Bubba.

This is not fair, and this sort of criticism is not where the focus should be IMO. David is who he is. He is not manipulating the situation so he can make meaningless commitments and 'draw a fat paycheck'. No one is forcing Rice to pay him what he makes. You may disagree with his methods of preparing the team, recruiting, game decisions, or whatever- and there are some valid criticisms in there IMO. But please be open to the possibility (or probability IMO) that he is a great guy who is running the program as best he can and who truly has goals of conference championships and Top 25 rankings. If his abilities are not up to that task, then it's up to his bosses to determine what we do with that reality. This is a free message board so people can say whatever they want, but IMO the personal nature of some of the Bailiff criticisms are out of bounds.
Again- he is not holding the Rice powers-that-be hostage. They are employing him at their option. If he fails and they continue to employ him don't blame him for keeping his job

(01-08-2016 11:45 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-08-2016 11:40 AM)mrbig Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-07-2016 01:29 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ]I'm less than thrilled there have been no changes announced publicly so far. JK did refer to changes on the way in his podcast, but was unclear what they'd actually be.

I'm not sure what the "changes" will be, but JK isn't the only one to reference them. Some of Stephanie Kuzydym's last few tweets:

Stephanie Kuzydym Wrote:Coach Bailiff will make some changes in how everything is run. This year's results hurt him because he saw hurt in his players.

Stephanie Kuzydym Wrote:Those changes have already begun although I can't disclose them to you. Just know Rice still has bowl game expectations.

Who was hurt more? Coach B's emotions? The players' confidence? Fans' heads as they were repeatedly banged against the wall in frustration? Or the eyeballs of anyone who had to watch us play this year as they were slowly gauged out?

I vote #4.

#3 and #4 are the same.

It is VERY interesting and intriguing exactly what these changes are, and why no one can disclose them at this time. You'd think if they were minor changes there would not be such secrecy around them. And I can tell you (probably all I'll be able to tell you) that when I did ask JK to schedule time next week to chat about the football program, he agreed so long as I agreed to keep our dialogue strictly confidential.

Makes you wonder just what changes are in the works.

Walt - I agree, it feels like the Ranger Rick days where he had a secret plan that no one could talk about. But Ranger Rick is gone and I have to believe there is some plan ... but why the secrecy and why is no one at liberty to say anything when we are 6 weeks after the end of Rice's season? Kind of strange.

(01-08-2016 12:17 PM)Middle Ages Wrote: [ -> ]This is not fair, and this sort of criticism is not where the focus should be IMO. David is who he is. He is not manipulating the situation so he can make meaningless commitments and 'draw a fat paycheck'. No one is forcing Rice to pay him what he makes. You may disagree with his methods of preparing the team, recruiting, game decisions, or whatever- and there are some valid criticisms in there IMO. But please be open to the possibility (or probability IMO) that he is a great guy who is running the program as best he can and who truly has goals of conference championships and Top 25 rankings. If his abilities are not up to that task, then it's up to his bosses to determine what we do with that reality. This is a free message board so people can say whatever they want, but IMO the personal nature of some of the Bailiff criticisms are out of bounds.
Again- he is not holding the Rice powers-that-be hostage. They are employing him at their option. If he fails and they continue to employ him don't blame him for keeping his job

Well said.