CSNbbs

Discuss.

Geography for the most part.

Yup, they really don't fit another league. They have a pretty tight cluster and they have largely been together for a long time. Not much reason for them to leave for the G5's that would be most likely to ask.

Well, they are the lowest rung of FBS alongside Conference USA and the Sun Belt, and all fit within a tight geographical region. There might be something if the P5 conferences start up again i.e. if B12 or ACC loses some teams and subsequently backfills with AAC teams, potentially we could see the MAC lose Northern Illinois and Buffalo.

Geography, limited market penetration potential, smaller fan bases, etc.

(12-13-2015 12:11 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ]Discuss.

Same reason the SEC, Pac12, and Big Ten haven't had any defections. Everyone there is happy and the conference makes sense geographically.

The MAC was founded in 1946. Here's when each of the current 12 teams joined the MAC compared to when other conferences were founded for context-

1896- B1G founded
1932- SEC founded

1946- MAC founded, Ohio joins MAC
1947- Miami and Western Michigan joins MAC
1950- Toledo joins MAC
1951- Kent State joins MAC
1952- Bowling Green joins MAC

1953- ACC founded
1959- Pac12 founded

1971- Central Michigan and Eastern Michigan joins MAC
1973- Ball State joins MAC
1975- Northern Illinois joins MAC

1976- Sun Belt founded
1979- BE/AAC founded

1992- Akron joins MAC

1995- CUSA founded
1996- BigXII founded

1998- Buffalo joins MAC

1999- MWC founded

imo, the MAC is what every college athletic conferences should be- a collection of like minded institutions that share a strong academic, cultural, financial and geographic identity and that have a long term commitment to each other.

The irony is the core teams are not good enough to be invited to better conferences or want to split in half.

And its the teams that only stay a short time are the ones that are out of the geographic footprint, so end result is the conference never grows outside the Midwest. If UCF, Temple, UMass, Marshall were still in the conference, there would be a stronger push to expand in the east, but they left.

And another thing that helps, when one of the core teams leave to move up, it does not work and they come crawling back. Like NIU did when it left for the Big West. Next time NIU will think twice before it moves. Who knows, maybe one day Marshall will come crawling back.

If Cinci ends up in the Big 12 the AAC would probably come knocking. Ohio or Toledo would get them back in Ohio and have some of the best fan support in the MAC.

(12-13-2015 04:13 PM)goofus Wrote: [ -> ]The irony is the core teams are not good enough to be invited to better conferences or want to split in half.

And its the teams that only stay a short time are the ones that are out of the geographic footprint, so end result is the conference never grows outside the Midwest. If UCF, Temple, UMass, Marshall were still in the conference, there would be a stronger push to expand in the east, but they left.

And another thing that helps, when one of the core teams leave to move up, it does not work and they come crawling back. Like NIU did when it left for the Big West. Next time NIU will think twice before it moves. Who knows, maybe one day Marshall will come crawling back.

NIU left to go independent, then ended up in the Big West. And that was a long time ago when there were a lot more independents. Leaving for a conference would be different. Though I believe NIU would still think twice about it.

Geography is still an issue, as most would only be in the Big 14 footprint, or possibly Big 12, and none of the MAC schools fit in those conferences. A school like Ohio wouldn't be too out of place geographically in the AAC I suppose.

Perception plays a part in this, a huge part brought about by having NO national media exposure for 50 plus years under the shadow of the B1G, until the 2000s despite it's legacy status as one of the oldest conferences in D1. Exposure help w/ recruiting.

(12-13-2015 12:11 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ]Discuss.

Because they are in B1G territory and none of them are expansion candidates for the B1G and not big draws for the conferences in the south.

Thus, as others have said, geography to be simple.

One thing i hated about the MAC for years was they operated like a poor man's ivy league, with a bunch schools that are just happy playing DI-A, no aggressive moves as CFB passed it by. I think this is what drove NIU admin in the 80s to break up w/ the MAC to try to make a name for itself as an Independent. I don't think it's a league of missed opportunities anymore.

(12-13-2015 04:13 PM)goofus Wrote: [ -> ]The irony is the core teams are not good enough to be invited to better conferences or want to split in half.

There is no irony. The core teams of the MAC are good enough to move up, ranking all of the FBS programs by their all time winning percentage has Miami at #20, Central Michigan at #23 and Bowling Green at #30. That's more than good enough to "move up". The problem is FBS is a corrupt sports league run by a good ol boys network that insures competition is kept to a minimum. There's no way in hell Ohio State and Michigan would ever let in state rivals share in their glory.

There's nothing ironic about it.

(12-13-2015 07:39 PM)perimeterpost Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-13-2015 04:13 PM)goofus Wrote: [ -> ]The irony is the core teams are not good enough to be invited to better conferences or want to split in half.

There is no irony. The core teams of the MAC are good enough to move up, ranking all of the FBS programs by their all time winning percentage has Miami at #20, Central Michigan at #23 and Bowling Green at #30. That's more than good enough to "move up". The problem is FBS is a corrupt sports league run by a good ol boys network that insures competition is kept to a minimum. There's no way in hell Ohio State and Michigan would ever let in state rivals share in their glory.

There's nothing ironic about it.

Disagree. It's about fan support and commitment from the university.

South Carolina had a terrible history throughout its existence and is located in a mostly rural, small state. In the 1980s our rival won a national title and had much more national prestige.

In the early 1990s we were floundering but when FSU declined an SEC invitation why did they call us? Because the university funded the program heavily and we have 80k people at every single home game. If Ohio or Central Michigan or even Cincinnati did that then they would be in the Big Ten too

(12-13-2015 08:01 PM)Gamecock Wrote: [ -> ]Disagree. It's about fan support and commitment from the university.

South Carolina had a terrible history throughout its existence and is located in a mostly rural, small state. In the 1980s our rival won a national title and had much more national prestige.

In the early 1990s we were floundering but when FSU declined an SEC invitation why did they call us? Because the university funded the program heavily and we have 80k people at every single home game. If Ohio or Central Michigan or even Cincinnati did that then they would be in the Big Ten too

Except that they wouldn't. South Carolina was an expansion of the SEC footprint ... OhioU, CMU or UC would not be seen as an expansion of the Big Ten footprint, and would not give the Big Ten the increased Eastern Exposure, access to improved recruiting grounds, and improved contact with out of area alumni that they are looking for. And OhioU and CMU would also be way out of the academic level that the Big Ten is looking for in a school.

(12-13-2015 05:20 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote: [ -> ]If Cinci ends up in the Big 12 the AAC would probably come knocking. Ohio or Toledo would get them back in Ohio and have some of the best fan support in the MAC.

Probably not.

None of the MAC schools have much statewide support besides their corners of the state. Therefore, they aren't compelling adds, even though they are in massive population states.

The reasons no one has really moved up have been discussed at length. But with regards to no one moving to the C-USA, I think it just shows how much of a relative stride the MAC has made the past ten years. When Marshall moved out the C-USA had a clear edge in bowls and TV, now the gap has been dramatically narrowed and there really isn't any benefit to giving up geographic sensibilities and rivalries for a marginal increase in money that would be absorbed mostly by travel costs in all sports. Even ten years ago it didn't make very much sense for the time, Miami and Toledo both told the C-USA no thanks when they were backfilling off of Big East expansion. The reason it works for Marshall is because they identify with the southern schools a lot more anyways, and they were on the MAC's naughty list after their NCAA violations.

(12-13-2015 07:39 PM)perimeterpost Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-13-2015 04:13 PM)goofus Wrote: [ -> ]The irony is the core teams are not good enough to be invited to better conferences or want to split in half.

There is no irony. The core teams of the MAC are good enough to move up, ranking all of the FBS programs by their all time winning percentage has Miami at #20, Central Michigan at #23 and Bowling Green at #30. That's more than good enough to "move up". The problem is FBS is a corrupt sports league run by a good ol boys network that insures competition is kept to a minimum. There's no way in hell Ohio State and Michigan would ever let in state rivals share in their glory.

There's nothing ironic about it.

Sure, those winning percentage are impressive, but like anything else in college football you cannot take them at their surface value. Who did they play to achieve those numbers?