CSNbbs

It's what Obama and Hillary are selling..

What's it take to get on the no fly list?

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(12-02-2015 09:38 PM)blunderbuss Wrote: [ -> ]What's it take to get on the no fly list?

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Practically nothing. Countless people have been put on there by mistake, just by having the same name. An 8 year old boy. Multiple Congressmen.

Insane proposition.

(12-02-2015 09:38 PM)blunderbuss Wrote: [ -> ]What's it take to get on the no fly list?

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Nobody knows for sure but here is a little info

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2015/09/09...-fly-list/

Quote:t’s probably America’s most controversial list. You can be put on it without your knowledge, and getting off it is extremely difficult.

It’s the federal no-fly list, a collection of names of people who are not allowed to board commercial flights into or out of the United States. According to leaked documents obtained by The Intercept, more than 47,000 people were on America’s no-fly list as of August 2013. That number reportedly includes 800 Americans, many of whom don’t even know they’re on it. The government sends no official notification to those on the list; many times, people don’t find out until they’re denied boarding at the airport.

A number of high-profile lawsuits have claimed the government unjustly added people to the list and blocked their efforts to have their names removed. Last summer, a federal court ruled in favor of 13 people who claimed the government violated their constitutional rights to travel by placing them on the no-fly list. The government was ordered to tell the plaintiffs whether they’re on the list, spell out the reasons they are barred from travel, and to give them a chance to challenge the government finding.

The case was one of the biggest challenges yet to the super-secret government list, but the veil that shrouds the no-fly list still remains.

“There is this black box procedure which operates purely behind the curtains and no one is able to part those curtains and find out what really goes on,” airline industry analyst Robert Mann explained to Yahoo Travel.

The government maintains that the secrecy about the no-fly list is necessary for national security. A potential terrorist can be tipped off that the government is watching him, the logic goes, if he gets a letter saying he’s now on a government blacklist.

“I think it’s like any high security process,” says Mann. “You don’t want to reveal sources and methods because knowledge of those sources and methods permit nefarious individuals to compromise them.”

Actually, if you really want to curtail this there are 3 things that must be done IMHO. 1) Stop giving press to the crazies trying to shoot everyone up. Other idiots see this and in their own twisted minds it's their way to get attention. 2) If someone is known to be mentally ill on a serious level, they need to be institutionalized. A lot of deranged people are around today because asylums are no longer a part of the equation. 3) If these gunmen are terrorists, then you need to root out the mechanism that creates them. If it's our porous border, that needs to change. If it's due to a mosque recruiting terrorists then that mosque needs to be shut down, etc.

Gun control is not the answer. Funny how the street gangs still have guns in cities with strict gun control laws...

(12-02-2015 09:42 PM)Kronke Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-02-2015 09:38 PM)blunderbuss Wrote: [ -> ]What's it take to get on the no fly list?

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Practically nothing. Countless people have been put on there by mistake, just by having the same name. An 8 year old boy. Multiple Congressmen.

Insane proposition.

Yes lets sell weapons to terrorists

(12-02-2015 09:48 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-02-2015 09:38 PM)blunderbuss Wrote: [ -> ]What's it take to get on the no fly list?

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Nobody knows for sure but here is a little info

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2015/09/09...-fly-list/

Quote:t’s probably America’s most controversial list. You can be put on it without your knowledge, and getting off it is extremely difficult.

It’s the federal no-fly list, a collection of names of people who are not allowed to board commercial flights into or out of the United States. According to leaked documents obtained by The Intercept, more than 47,000 people were on America’s no-fly list as of August 2013. That number reportedly includes 800 Americans, many of whom don’t even know they’re on it. The government sends no official notification to those on the list; many times, people don’t find out until they’re denied boarding at the airport.

A number of high-profile lawsuits have claimed the government unjustly added people to the list and blocked their efforts to have their names removed. Last summer, a federal court ruled in favor of 13 people who claimed the government violated their constitutional rights to travel by placing them on the no-fly list. The government was ordered to tell the plaintiffs whether they’re on the list, spell out the reasons they are barred from travel, and to give them a chance to challenge the government finding.

The case was one of the biggest challenges yet to the super-secret government list, but the veil that shrouds the no-fly list still remains.

“There is this black box procedure which operates purely behind the curtains and no one is able to part those curtains and find out what really goes on,” airline industry analyst Robert Mann explained to Yahoo Travel.

The government maintains that the secrecy about the no-fly list is necessary for national security. A potential terrorist can be tipped off that the government is watching him, the logic goes, if he gets a letter saying he’s now on a government blacklist.

“I think it’s like any high security process,” says Mann. “You don’t want to reveal sources and methods because knowledge of those sources and methods permit nefarious individuals to compromise them.”

I can see how leftists want to use this "tool".

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(12-02-2015 10:28 PM)AirRaid Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-02-2015 09:42 PM)Kronke Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-02-2015 09:38 PM)blunderbuss Wrote: [ -> ]What's it take to get on the no fly list?

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

Practically nothing. Countless people have been put on there by mistake, just by having the same name. An 8 year old boy. Multiple Congressmen.

Insane proposition.

Yes lets sell weapons to terrorists

Yes let's take away the Constitutional rights of innocent people just because of their name.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/unlikely-ter...ly-list/2/

Quote:Jack Cloonan says in the headlong rush to get a list, they forgot quality control. "And, we forgot what this was about. This is to prevent an Islamic terrorist who is associated with al Qaeda from getting on a plane. It lacks efficiency and, it makes us, look ineffective and ill equipped," he says.

It also has created enormous frustration and aggravation for thousands of innocent travelers who have the misfortune of sharing a name with someone on the list and some of the names are among the most common in America. Like Gary Smith, John Williams or Robert Johnson. 60 Minutes found 12 of them and brought them to New York for an interview.

In New York, Kroft spoke to the group, all of them named Robert Johnson; all said they have trouble getting on airplanes.

They don't look like a very dangerous group. There is a politician, a soccer coach, businessmen, even a member of the military. Yet they say they are pulled aside and interrogated, sometimes for hours until someone at the Transportation Security Administration decides they are not the Robert Johnson on the No Fly List. And they say it happens nearly every time they go to the airport.

"Oh, at least - at least 15 to 20 times. At least," one of the Robert Johnsons tells Kroft.

"Probably for close to 100 segments, every time I would go to get onto an airplane, I would have to go through the process," another says.

"I had my military ID and you know, I go on military bases all the time," Robert Johnson says. "So I can get on any base in the country, but I can't fly on a plane, because I am on the No Fly List."

The Robert Johnson meant to be on the No Fly List would seem to be the known alias of a 62-year-old black man who was convicted of plotting to bomb a Hindu temple and a movie theatre in Toronto. After serving 12 years, he was deported to Trinidad. But the airlines ticket agents don't have any of that information on their computer screens. They just have the name, not even a date of birth.

"There's gotta be some common sense in there. Somebody behind that desk has to say, 'This isn't the guy they're looking for.' Come on," one remarks.

Asked what is the worst part of the experience, one of the Johnsons tells Kroft, "The humiliation factor. And, I get calls on my cell phone from my coworkers saying, 'You gonna make the flight? You gonna make the flight?' And, I'm sitting here in a panic sweatin' and, you know, to an extent he's thinking like 'Or, am I traveling with a criminal here?'"

One of the Robert Johnsons was even strip-searched. "I had to take off my pants, I had to take off my sneakers, then I had to take off my socks. I was treated like a criminal."

And there is not much they can do about it. Right now their only recourse is to apply to get on another list of people who shouldn't be on the list. Donna Bucella of the Terrorist Screening Center says the inconvenience is regrettable, but it's a price society and anyone named Robert Johnson has to pay for security.

"Well, Robert Johnson will never get off the list," Bucella states.

And she acknowledges that the inconvenience won't go away. "Well, they're gonna be inconvenienced every time they try to go to the kiosk or try to do a curbside check-in because they do have the name of a person who's a known or suspected terrorist," she says.

(12-02-2015 10:40 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-02-2015 10:28 PM)AirRaid Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-02-2015 09:42 PM)Kronke Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-02-2015 09:38 PM)blunderbuss Wrote: [ -> ]What's it take to get on the no fly list?

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

Practically nothing. Countless people have been put on there by mistake, just by having the same name. An 8 year old boy. Multiple Congressmen.

Insane proposition.

Yes lets sell weapons to terrorists

Yes let's take away the Constitutional rights of innocent people just because of their name.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/unlikely-ter...ly-list/2/

Quote:Jack Cloonan says in the headlong rush to get a list, they forgot quality control. "And, we forgot what this was about. This is to prevent an Islamic terrorist who is associated with al Qaeda from getting on a plane. It lacks efficiency and, it makes us, look ineffective and ill equipped," he says.

It also has created enormous frustration and aggravation for thousands of innocent travelers who have the misfortune of sharing a name with someone on the list and some of the names are among the most common in America. Like Gary Smith, John Williams or Robert Johnson. 60 Minutes found 12 of them and brought them to New York for an interview.

In New York, Kroft spoke to the group, all of them named Robert Johnson; all said they have trouble getting on airplanes.

They don't look like a very dangerous group. There is a politician, a soccer coach, businessmen, even a member of the military. Yet they say they are pulled aside and interrogated, sometimes for hours until someone at the Transportation Security Administration decides they are not the Robert Johnson on the No Fly List. And they say it happens nearly every time they go to the airport.

"Oh, at least - at least 15 to 20 times. At least," one of the Robert Johnsons tells Kroft.

"Probably for close to 100 segments, every time I would go to get onto an airplane, I would have to go through the process," another says.

"I had my military ID and you know, I go on military bases all the time," Robert Johnson says. "So I can get on any base in the country, but I can't fly on a plane, because I am on the No Fly List."

The Robert Johnson meant to be on the No Fly List would seem to be the known alias of a 62-year-old black man who was convicted of plotting to bomb a Hindu temple and a movie theatre in Toronto. After serving 12 years, he was deported to Trinidad. But the airlines ticket agents don't have any of that information on their computer screens. They just have the name, not even a date of birth.

"There's gotta be some common sense in there. Somebody behind that desk has to say, 'This isn't the guy they're looking for.' Come on," one remarks.

Asked what is the worst part of the experience, one of the Johnsons tells Kroft, "The humiliation factor. And, I get calls on my cell phone from my coworkers saying, 'You gonna make the flight? You gonna make the flight?' And, I'm sitting here in a panic sweatin' and, you know, to an extent he's thinking like 'Or, am I traveling with a criminal here?'"

One of the Robert Johnsons was even strip-searched. "I had to take off my pants, I had to take off my sneakers, then I had to take off my socks. I was treated like a criminal."

And there is not much they can do about it. Right now their only recourse is to apply to get on another list of people who shouldn't be on the list. Donna Bucella of the Terrorist Screening Center says the inconvenience is regrettable, but it's a price society and anyone named Robert Johnson has to pay for security.

"Well, Robert Johnson will never get off the list," Bucella states.

And she acknowledges that the inconvenience won't go away. "Well, they're gonna be inconvenienced every time they try to go to the kiosk or try to do a curbside check-in because they do have the name of a person who's a known or suspected terrorist," she says.

So rather than trying to improve the system, where innocents don't lose their bogus rights, we should sell weapons to terrorists. okay.

Bogus rights? Lolololol... Ok. We can't have a conversation.

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It will never stand up in court. The no-fly list does not bump into the Bill of Rights. There is no right to fly on a plane. There should be, but there isn't. So there is no requirement for due process. It might take a couple of years, but it would never hold up in court.

Bogus rights? GTFOOH!!!

(12-02-2015 09:38 PM)blunderbuss Wrote: [ -> ]What's it take to get on the no fly list?

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The real question is what's it take for someone who should be on the no fly list to get on it.

(12-02-2015 10:42 PM)AirRaid Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-02-2015 10:40 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-02-2015 10:28 PM)AirRaid Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-02-2015 09:42 PM)Kronke Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-02-2015 09:38 PM)blunderbuss Wrote: [ -> ]What's it take to get on the no fly list?

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

Practically nothing. Countless people have been put on there by mistake, just by having the same name. An 8 year old boy. Multiple Congressmen.

Insane proposition.

Yes lets sell weapons to terrorists

Yes let's take away the Constitutional rights of innocent people just because of their name.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/unlikely-ter...ly-list/2/

Quote:Jack Cloonan says in the headlong rush to get a list, they forgot quality control. "And, we forgot what this was about. This is to prevent an Islamic terrorist who is associated with al Qaeda from getting on a plane. It lacks efficiency and, it makes us, look ineffective and ill equipped," he says.

It also has created enormous frustration and aggravation for thousands of innocent travelers who have the misfortune of sharing a name with someone on the list and some of the names are among the most common in America. Like Gary Smith, John Williams or Robert Johnson. 60 Minutes found 12 of them and brought them to New York for an interview.

In New York, Kroft spoke to the group, all of them named Robert Johnson; all said they have trouble getting on airplanes.

They don't look like a very dangerous group. There is a politician, a soccer coach, businessmen, even a member of the military. Yet they say they are pulled aside and interrogated, sometimes for hours until someone at the Transportation Security Administration decides they are not the Robert Johnson on the No Fly List. And they say it happens nearly every time they go to the airport.

"Oh, at least - at least 15 to 20 times. At least," one of the Robert Johnsons tells Kroft.

"Probably for close to 100 segments, every time I would go to get onto an airplane, I would have to go through the process," another says.

"I had my military ID and you know, I go on military bases all the time," Robert Johnson says. "So I can get on any base in the country, but I can't fly on a plane, because I am on the No Fly List."

The Robert Johnson meant to be on the No Fly List would seem to be the known alias of a 62-year-old black man who was convicted of plotting to bomb a Hindu temple and a movie theatre in Toronto. After serving 12 years, he was deported to Trinidad. But the airlines ticket agents don't have any of that information on their computer screens. They just have the name, not even a date of birth.

"There's gotta be some common sense in there. Somebody behind that desk has to say, 'This isn't the guy they're looking for.' Come on," one remarks.

Asked what is the worst part of the experience, one of the Johnsons tells Kroft, "The humiliation factor. And, I get calls on my cell phone from my coworkers saying, 'You gonna make the flight? You gonna make the flight?' And, I'm sitting here in a panic sweatin' and, you know, to an extent he's thinking like 'Or, am I traveling with a criminal here?'"

One of the Robert Johnsons was even strip-searched. "I had to take off my pants, I had to take off my sneakers, then I had to take off my socks. I was treated like a criminal."

And there is not much they can do about it. Right now their only recourse is to apply to get on another list of people who shouldn't be on the list. Donna Bucella of the Terrorist Screening Center says the inconvenience is regrettable, but it's a price society and anyone named Robert Johnson has to pay for security.

"Well, Robert Johnson will never get off the list," Bucella states.

And she acknowledges that the inconvenience won't go away. "Well, they're gonna be inconvenienced every time they try to go to the kiosk or try to do a curbside check-in because they do have the name of a person who's a known or suspected terrorist," she says.

So rather than trying to improve the system, where innocents don't lose their bogus rights, we should sell weapons to terrorists. okay.

The idea that a right so important to our Founding Fathers that they made it second only behind speech and religion is "bogus" tells me all I need to know about your thought process.

They have had over a decade to "improve the system" and they haven't. There is already the better, far more detailed Terrorist Screening Database (the TSBS) available through the FBI's Terrorist Screening Center (TSC) via the NCIC computer system that they could use but they don't. Especially frustrating part of the is the TSC is also responsible for creating the No Fly List.

(12-02-2015 10:56 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-02-2015 10:42 PM)AirRaid Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-02-2015 10:40 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-02-2015 10:28 PM)AirRaid Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-02-2015 09:42 PM)Kronke Wrote: [ -> ]Practically nothing. Countless people have been put on there by mistake, just by having the same name. An 8 year old boy. Multiple Congressmen.

Insane proposition.

Yes lets sell weapons to terrorists

Yes let's take away the Constitutional rights of innocent people just because of their name.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/unlikely-ter...ly-list/2/

Quote:Jack Cloonan says in the headlong rush to get a list, they forgot quality control. "And, we forgot what this was about. This is to prevent an Islamic terrorist who is associated with al Qaeda from getting on a plane. It lacks efficiency and, it makes us, look ineffective and ill equipped," he says.

It also has created enormous frustration and aggravation for thousands of innocent travelers who have the misfortune of sharing a name with someone on the list and some of the names are among the most common in America. Like Gary Smith, John Williams or Robert Johnson. 60 Minutes found 12 of them and brought them to New York for an interview.

In New York, Kroft spoke to the group, all of them named Robert Johnson; all said they have trouble getting on airplanes.

They don't look like a very dangerous group. There is a politician, a soccer coach, businessmen, even a member of the military. Yet they say they are pulled aside and interrogated, sometimes for hours until someone at the Transportation Security Administration decides they are not the Robert Johnson on the No Fly List. And they say it happens nearly every time they go to the airport.

"Oh, at least - at least 15 to 20 times. At least," one of the Robert Johnsons tells Kroft.

"Probably for close to 100 segments, every time I would go to get onto an airplane, I would have to go through the process," another says.

"I had my military ID and you know, I go on military bases all the time," Robert Johnson says. "So I can get on any base in the country, but I can't fly on a plane, because I am on the No Fly List."

The Robert Johnson meant to be on the No Fly List would seem to be the known alias of a 62-year-old black man who was convicted of plotting to bomb a Hindu temple and a movie theatre in Toronto. After serving 12 years, he was deported to Trinidad. But the airlines ticket agents don't have any of that information on their computer screens. They just have the name, not even a date of birth.

"There's gotta be some common sense in there. Somebody behind that desk has to say, 'This isn't the guy they're looking for.' Come on," one remarks.

Asked what is the worst part of the experience, one of the Johnsons tells Kroft, "The humiliation factor. And, I get calls on my cell phone from my coworkers saying, 'You gonna make the flight? You gonna make the flight?' And, I'm sitting here in a panic sweatin' and, you know, to an extent he's thinking like 'Or, am I traveling with a criminal here?'"

One of the Robert Johnsons was even strip-searched. "I had to take off my pants, I had to take off my sneakers, then I had to take off my socks. I was treated like a criminal."

And there is not much they can do about it. Right now their only recourse is to apply to get on another list of people who shouldn't be on the list. Donna Bucella of the Terrorist Screening Center says the inconvenience is regrettable, but it's a price society and anyone named Robert Johnson has to pay for security.

"Well, Robert Johnson will never get off the list," Bucella states.

And she acknowledges that the inconvenience won't go away. "Well, they're gonna be inconvenienced every time they try to go to the kiosk or try to do a curbside check-in because they do have the name of a person who's a known or suspected terrorist," she says.

So rather than trying to improve the system, where innocents don't lose their bogus rights, we should sell weapons to terrorists. okay.

The idea that a right so important to our Founding Fathers that they made it second only behind speech and religion is "bogus" tells me all I need to know about your thought process.

They have had over a decade to "improve the system" and they haven't. There is already the better, far more detailed Terrorist Screening Database (the TSBS) available through the FBI's Terrorist Screening Center (TSC) via the NCIC computer system that they could use but they don't. Especially frustrating part of the is the TSC is also responsible for creating the No Fly List.

Hilarious how you only fight for the second amendment, and no other amendment. Where were you when Donald Trump and Ben Carson suggested a religious test should be required for office? That doesn't violate the constitution? What about abolishing the 14th amendment? What about taking only Christian refugees? All of that is unconstitutional, but no one ever talks about that. Either take them all or don't take any. Also, most people aren't in militia's. The second amendment was made to fight a tyrannical government, but that cause is lost when the government has drones, your rifle won't do anything against drones. Guns weren't meant to be owned for leisure. And don't even get me started about armor piercing rounds being sold to the public....sure as hell you guys care about cops.

Um, they have free speech. What you think the first is bogus rights too?

(12-02-2015 11:09 PM)Paul M Wrote: [ -> ]Um, they have free speech. What you think the first is bogus rights too?

Lmao... He's a buffoon.

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(12-02-2015 11:01 PM)AirRaid Wrote: [ -> ]Where were you when Donald Trump and Ben Carson suggested a religious test should be required for office?

I believe I have a right to know that. If they dont want to say, they wont get my vote. That is my right. And is constitutional.

Quote: That doesn't violate the constitution?

no

Quote: What about abolishing the 14th amendment?

There's no need to abolish the amendment. The amendment says nothing about people born of people being here illegally are citizens.

Quote:What about taking only Christian refugees?

Thats perfectly constitutional, and by law, that makes sense. You have to know the law.

Quote:All of that is unconstitutional, but no one ever talks about that.

It's not.

Quote:Either take them all or don't take any.

That would be unconstitutional.

Quote:Also, most people aren't in militia's.

Show me how you determine that.

Quote:The second amendment was made to fight a tyrannical government

Which we have now.

Quote:, but that cause is lost when the government has drones, your rifle won't do anything against drones.

wanna bet.

Quote:Guns weren't meant to be owned for leisure.

We have the right to bear arms. Get over it.

Quote:And don't even get me started about armor piercing rounds being sold to the public....sure as hell you guys care about cops.

I can do more damage with legally obtained cleaning supplies than any gun with armor piercing rounds can do. Which means, you are not trying to get to the root cause problem. You are attacking what you dont like, versus attacking the real problem. I get it. Its the liberal way of thinking.

(12-02-2015 11:01 PM)AirRaid Wrote: [ -> ]Hilarious how you only fight for the second amendment, and no other amendment. Where were you when Donald Trump and Ben Carson suggested a religious test should be required for office? That doesn't violate the constitution?

Saying it doesn't violate the Constitution. If it were put in place then yes it would violate the Constitution IMO and I feel certain it would quickly be challenged.

Quote:What about abolishing the 14th amendment?

Abolishing amendments is Constitutional. We've already done it when we abolished the 18th Amendment by passing the 21st Amendment.

Quote: What about taking only Christian refugees?

Again, talking about it is Constitutional.

Quote:Also, most people aren't in militia's. The second amendment was made to fight a tyrannical government, but that cause is lost when the government has drones, your rifle won't do anything against drones. Guns weren't meant to be owned for leisure. And don't even get me started about armor piercing rounds being sold to the public....sure as hell you guys care about cops.

You ignorant leftists have no idea what you are talking about when it concerns the Constitution and it's never more evident than when you trot out the "militia" line. You are trying to apply modern terminology and practices to the late 1700's-early 1800's and it can't be done.

http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/wew/quotes/arms.html

Quote:"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

Quote:"[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
--James Madison, The Federalist Papers, No. 46

http://academic.udayton.edu/health/sylla...lita01.htm

Quote:The Colonial Militias

The great majority of colonists arriving in America during the seventeenth century had no experience as soldiers. Yet owing to the small British military presence of the time, the colonists soon found the need to establish a military force. They drew from their knowledge of the militia system in England to develop their own military forces. The resulting colonial militia laws required every able-bodied male citizen to participate and to provide his own arms. Militia control was very localized, often with individual towns having autonomous command systems. Additionally, the colonies placed relatively short training requirements upon their militiamen: as little as four days of training per year.

As for effectiveness against drones.....pretty sure we are walking away from a war we haven't won against a force that after the initial weeks of the war had no armor and no air force. If the time ever comes where significant numbers of our citizens have to take up arms against our own government I feel pretty sure that the people will have access to plenty of military grade weapons in very short order.

And there is plenty of standard hunting ammunition that is far more effective against body armor than "armor piercing" ammo.

(12-02-2015 10:28 PM)AirRaid Wrote: [ -> ]Yes lets sell weapons to terrorists

Under the wrong circumstances, Your handle could get you put on the no-fly list. My 80 year old mother was on it for a short time (borrowed a cane from a friend when she had foot surgery not knowing it was a 'sword' cane... got stopped at the airport and despite being allowed to fly out, was put on the DNF for the return). My father had to call an old friend at TSA to get her removed

If there is a legitimate reason for you to be on the dnf list, you won't pass a background check. They're using the 'black box' of the DNF to create a straw man of the suspected terrorist whom the TSA won't let get on a plane but the ATF will let buy a gun?

Silliness.

If they're that incompetent that they'll put someone on the DNF as a suspected terrorist but not flag them with the ATF, we need a new director of homeland security.