I was just wondering what it would take if you got Florida State and Oklahoma together, and tried to start a new conference?
If FSU got Clemson, Louisville, and Miami to follow them out the ACC door and started a new conference with Oklahoma (and Okie State), how would that fare with their current situations, and most importantly, would that allow the growth, and eventual more $$$ down the road?
It seems like there is an inevitable split coming in the ACC if the network can't get going...
Would Tobacco Road try to go to the Big 10? Could FSU and Oklahoma get a new conference going?
Specifically, I wonder what kind of TV deal this conference would get:
Florida State
Miami
Clemson
Louisville
Cincinnati
Houston
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
(11-06-2015 04:07 PM)EvilVodka Wrote: [ -> ]Specifically, I wonder what kind of TV deal this conference would get:
Florida State
Miami
Clemson
Louisville
Cincinnati
Houston
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
Memphis could draw as well. Bring West Virginia as well.
I assume you're thinking that the triangle of Duke, UNC, and UVA would never leave the ACC, right? That combination guarantees that Virginia Tech would stay (owes favors to UVA for getting them in the ACC). Pitt, Syracuse, and BC have shown a willingness to leave partners behind in the past, but I think they stick with the Tobacco Road schools.
(11-06-2015 04:07 PM)EvilVodka Wrote: [ -> ]Specifically, I wonder what kind of TV deal this conference would get:
Florida State
Miami
Clemson
Louisville
Cincinnati
Houston
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
Well, you wouldn't be able to start a conference without, what, seven schools having played together x-amount of years, right? (I can't find the details, which is weird because we only talk about this all the time, so you'd think they'd be easy to uncover). So unless this new group gets a waiver, then I'd guess this would take place within the framework of the Big XII, which means you're still dealing with Baylor, TCU and Iowa State (presuming Texas and Texas Tech are out by then).
But taking your question at face value, it'd get a good contract if it were replacing/becoming the Big 12, less if it was creating a sixth power conference.
If they could get FSU, Clemson, and Oklahoma, then West Virginia would join. That core would be better than the ACC remnant in football, so Louisville would join.
But is that core good enough for a conference to coalesce around? I don't know. UC & UConn would still prefer the ACC remnant for academic/cultural reasons.
They could probably get the rest of the Big 12 to join, but that's NOT what FSU wants so they'd veto that decision (if they wanted a Big 12+Clemson+FSU, they could have it today).
The big "get" would be Georgia Tech. But I don't know their motivations.
FSU
Clemson
West Virginia
Oklahoma
Louisville
Georgia Tech
Cincinnati
Memphis
Would that group attract NC State or Va Tech? Of course not - they've both already said no to the SEC, and the SEC is much better than that group.
This group is pretty geographically focused and would get a good TV contract. But smaller conferences are a thing of the past. Today it's all about negotiating power, and large conference have more leverage in negotiations.
These proposed ideas sound like an amalgamation of the old Metro Conference and the Big 8.
At one point the Metro had:
UC
Louisville
Memphis
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Virginia Tech
South Carolina
Tulane
Southern Miss
Saint Louis
There were even discussions of a Super Conference which would have included schools that would eventually form the Big East: Miami, BC, Pitt, WVU and Rutgers etc. Would love that conference today.
(11-06-2015 04:00 PM)EvilVodka Wrote: [ -> ]I was just wondering what it would take if you got Florida State and Oklahoma together, and tried to start a new conference?
If FSU got Clemson, Louisville, and Miami to follow them out the ACC door and started a new conference with Oklahoma (and Okie State), how would that fare with their current situations, and most importantly, would that allow the growth, and eventual more $$$ down the road?
The new FSU-Oklahoma conference would definitely get paid. You're taking 5 of the best 6 football properties from among the 24 schools currently in the ACC and Big 12.
(11-06-2015 04:32 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ]Well, you wouldn't be able to start a conference without, what, seven schools having played together x-amount of years, right? (I can't find the details, which is weird because we only talk about this all the time, so you'd think they'd be easy to uncover). So unless this new group gets a waiver, then I'd guess this would take place within the framework of the Big XII, which means you're still dealing with Baylor, TCU and Iowa State (presuming Texas and Texas Tech are out by then).
I forget the exact number of years, but yeah, it's 7 programs from the same conference. If some TV network owner was willing to pay big money to make this realignment happen, you could get a decent 7 out of the Big 12 to be joined by 5 out of the ACC:
New Conference West Division:
Baylor
TCU
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
K-State
New Conference East Division:
Miami
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
West Virginia
Louisville
I think the only way something like this happens is if FOX decides that they want another play on top of the B1G to dig at ESPN. Do they need or want to do that?
(11-06-2015 04:43 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: [ -> ]The big "get" would be Georgia Tech. But I don't know their motivations.
FSU
Clemson
West Virginia
Oklahoma
Louisville
Georgia Tech
Cincinnati
Memphis
Would that group attract NC State or Va Tech? Of course not - they've both already said no to the SEC, and the SEC is much better than that group.
This group is pretty geographically focused and would get a good TV contract. But smaller conferences are a thing of the past. Today it's all about negotiating power, and large conference have more leverage in negotiations.
But, Virginia Tech and NC State would probably bolt to the SEC if their ACC home is now without FSU, Clemson, or Georgia Tech.
(11-06-2015 05:01 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote: [ -> ]...
New Conference West Division:
Baylor
TCU
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
K-State
New Conference East Division:
Miami
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
West Virginia
Louisville
I think the only way something like this happens is if FOX decides that they want another play on top of the B1G to dig at ESPN. Do they need or want to do that?
FOX would retain much of its Texahoma inventory and would love to get a nice chunk of the South. This gives them the best of the non-SEC South available.
But, in the scenario above, you have 7 of the current 10 Big 12 teams. And, let's assume that Texas goes to independence or to the PAC 12 with Texas Tech. So, just keep the Big 12 in tact, place Iowa St. in the West division and add one to the East (NC State, Virginia Tech, Pitt, Memphis?]
Well, if UNC, UVA and Duke went to the SEC after Missouri and Virginia Tech join The Big Ten then that leaves 10 teams in the ACC. I think it likely that Florida State, Clemson, Georgia Tech and Miami all approach the big 12 as a unit saying they will join if The big 12 goes to 16 and votes to allow for four divisions in a conference so that those four teams can be their own division in football within that conference. At that point then the big 12 also chooses the likes of Louisville and one more from the ACC to make that four team division with West Virginia and Iowa State.
The rest of the ACC then falls in line with Notre Dame as Notre Dame joins fully to turn the ACC into "their" conference. They keep it small and East Coast based. If the big 12 chose to bring in North Carolina State for that final 16th spot then that leaves Boston College, Syracuse, Wake Forest and Pitt for Notre Dame to keep with them. Those are four teams that Notre Dame has history with. They pick three more schools from the AAC and they go forward with a 8 team Eastern conference that is absolutely loyal to Notre Dame.
East
FSU
Clemson
GT
WV
VT
NC St
Miami
West
Texas
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St
Notre Dame
Texas Tech
Louisville
Pittsburgh
Cross division rivals: FSU & Texas, Clemson & Oklahoma, GT & ND, WV & Pitt, VT & TT, NC St & Okl St, Miami & Louisville
Big 12 remnants join the ACC.
East
NC
Duke
WF
BC
Syracuse
Virginia
UCONN
West
Baylor
TCU
Kansas
Kansas St
Iowa St
Cincinnati
Memphis
(11-06-2015 04:32 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2015 04:07 PM)EvilVodka Wrote: [ -> ]Specifically, I wonder what kind of TV deal this conference would get:
Florida State
Miami
Clemson
Louisville
Cincinnati
Houston
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
Well, you wouldn't be able to start a conference without, what, seven schools having played together x-amount of years, right? (I can't find the details, which is weird because we only talk about this all the time, so you'd think they'd be easy to uncover). So unless this new group gets a waiver, then I'd guess this would take place within the framework of the Big XII, which means you're still dealing with Baylor, TCU and Iowa State (presuming Texas and Texas Tech are out by then).
But taking your question at face value, it'd get a good contract if it were replacing/becoming the Big 12, less if it was creating a sixth power conference.
A waiver wouldn't be needed if they take over an existing conference and then offer the small schools money to leave. This is probably possible with the Atlantic Sun, which might be on its last legs anyway. Another way it could happen is to join an existing conference with at least seven teams that have been together eight years. Divide the conference in two, with the existing teams forming a new conference, and a new P5/FBS conference forming out of the shell of the old one. Anything is possible with enough "bribe" money.
The main problem is the GoR's, and how to get around those.
(11-06-2015 04:00 PM)EvilVodka Wrote: [ -> ]I was just wondering what it would take if you got Florida State and Oklahoma together, and tried to start a new conference?
If FSU got Clemson, Louisville, and Miami to follow them out the ACC door and started a new conference with Oklahoma (and Okie State), how would that fare with their current situations, and most importantly, would that allow the growth, and eventual more $$$ down the road?
It seems like there is an inevitable split coming in the ACC if the network can't get going...
Would Tobacco Road try to go to the Big 10? Could FSU and Oklahoma get a new conference going?
I'm not sure an OU/FSU conference works without at least Notre Dame or Texas (or maybe both) joining too.
The real key is whether ESPN or Fox will give the conference a mega media deal bigger than the current ACC and Big 12 contracts. If not, then FSU and OK probably have better options with the SEC or maybe B1G.
I've thought for a long time that the best outcome for college football is for Notre Dame, FSU and Texas to get together as founding members of a new conference when the current GORs expire.
For Texas, founding member status means not joining someone else’s conference. It allows them to beat their chests and ****-walk all over, proud that they were the driving force behind it, and it provides a narrative for explaining why Texas is abandoning the Big 12 sinking ship.
ND will inevitably need to join a conference whenever the Big 12 or ACC implode. Founding their own conference instead gives ND a face-saving rationale for doing it.
For FSU, it gives them security - if the ACC disappeared, FSU might not get an invitation to the BIG (not AAU) or the SEC (Florida may veto). The Big 12 would take them, but Texas would still rule the conference.
Each of the three founding members could bring along 3 others, so lets say Texas brings OU, Tech and Baylor, FSU brings Miami, Clemson and Georgia Tech (but GT may go B1G) and ND brings Pitt, Syracuse and BC. That still leaves at least four slots for for the founding members to give to teams like Oklahoma State, Louisville, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Iowa State, Kansas, Houston, Memphis, U Conn and any of the North Carolina schools that want to join. Regardless of who they choose, it would be an awfully freakin good conference without a single dead weight school to drag along.
If that blowup happens, though, I think the B1G gets UVA, UNC, Duke and Georgia Tech, plus maybe Kansas and one other team. The end result is 4 conferences, with the conference champs getting automatic bids to the 4 team playoffs.
(11-07-2015 02:03 AM)CintiFan Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2015 04:00 PM)EvilVodka Wrote: [ -> ]I was just wondering what it would take if you got Florida State and Oklahoma together, and tried to start a new conference?
If FSU got Clemson, Louisville, and Miami to follow them out the ACC door and started a new conference with Oklahoma (and Okie State), how would that fare with their current situations, and most importantly, would that allow the growth, and eventual more $$$ down the road?
It seems like there is an inevitable split coming in the ACC if the network can't get going...
Would Tobacco Road try to go to the Big 10? Could FSU and Oklahoma get a new conference going?
I'm not sure an OU/FSU conference works without at least Notre Dame or Texas (or maybe both) joining too.
The real key is whether ESPN or Fox will give the conference a mega media deal bigger than the current ACC and Big 12 contracts. If not, then FSU and OK probably have better options with the SEC or maybe B1G.
I've thought for a long time that the best outcome for college football is for Notre Dame, FSU and Texas to get together as founding members of a new conference when the current GORs expire.
For Texas, founding member status means not joining someone else’s conference. It allows them to beat their chests and ****-walk all over, proud that they were the driving force behind it, and it provides a narrative for explaining why Texas is abandoning the Big 12 sinking ship.
ND will inevitably need to join a conference whenever the Big 12 or ACC implode. Founding their own conference instead gives ND a face-saving rationale for doing it.
For FSU, it gives them security - if the ACC disappeared, FSU might not get an invitation to the BIG (not AAU) or the SEC (Florida may veto). The Big 12 would take them, but Texas would still rule the conference.
Each of the three founding members could bring along 3 others, so lets say Texas brings OU, Tech and Baylor, FSU brings Miami, Clemson and Georgia Tech (but GT may go B1G) and ND brings Pitt, Syracuse and BC. That still leaves at least four slots for for the founding members to give to teams like Oklahoma State, Louisville, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Iowa State, Kansas, Houston, Memphis, U Conn and any of the North Carolina schools that want to join. Regardless of who they choose, it would be an awfully freakin good conference without a single dead weight school to drag along.
If that blowup happens, though, I think the B1G gets UVA, UNC, Duke and Georgia Tech, plus maybe Kansas and one other team. The end result is 4 conferences, with the conference champs getting automatic bids to the 4 team playoffs.
You already mentioned many deadweights in football on that list.
Syracuse, BC, Miami (baggage), Virginia Tech, Iowa State, Kansas, Virginia, Duke (no fan support),.
(11-06-2015 06:07 PM)He1nousOne Wrote: [ -> ]Well, if UNC, UVA and Duke went to the SEC after Missouri and Virginia Tech join The Big Ten then that leaves 10 teams in the ACC. I think it likely that Florida State, Clemson, Georgia Tech and Miami all approach the big 12 as a unit saying they will join if The big 12 goes to 16 and votes to allow for four divisions in a conference so that those four teams can be their own division in football within that conference. At that point then the big 12 also chooses the likes of Louisville and one more from the ACC to make that four team division with West Virginia and Iowa State.
The rest of the ACC then falls in line with Notre Dame as Notre Dame joins fully to turn the ACC into "their" conference. They keep it small and East Coast based. If the big 12 chose to bring in North Carolina State for that final 16th spot then that leaves Boston College, Syracuse, Wake Forest and Pitt for Notre Dame to keep with them. Those are four teams that Notre Dame has history with. They pick three more schools from the AAC and they go forward with a 8 team Eastern conference that is absolutely loyal to Notre Dame.
Notre Dame is not joining a conference in full for football, remember?
Otherwise, that's a pretty good plan. I could see ND having side deals with the other four conferences for scheduling purposes to add to a scheduling deal with a rump ACC. Say, for example, two games vs the PAC, one against the Big Ten, two against the SEC, three against the ACC, one vs Navy, one against the B12, and two against one of BYU, Army, Air Force or a private like Rice or Tulane. Something like that could work for them.
Syracuse
Pitt
Temple
UConn
Cincinnati
Wake Forest
Boston College
South Florida
Central Florida
None of this happens until Texas decides what they want to do.
(11-06-2015 05:01 PM)YNot Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2015 04:43 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: [ -> ]The big "get" would be Georgia Tech. But I don't know their motivations.
FSU
Clemson
West Virginia
Oklahoma
Louisville
Georgia Tech
Cincinnati
Memphis
Would that group attract NC State or Va Tech? Of course not - they've both already said no to the SEC, and the SEC is much better than that group.
This group is pretty geographically focused and would get a good TV contract. But smaller conferences are a thing of the past. Today it's all about negotiating power, and large conference have more leverage in negotiations.
But, Virginia Tech and NC State would probably bolt to the SEC if their ACC home is now without FSU, Clemson, or Georgia Tech.
No, they would stay with the ACC core. Who says SEC would invite them, anyway?