I have a hard time believing that Temple has better facilities, plays before bigger crowds, and is more attractive than we are for academics. They were kicked out of the Big East and they recovered from their drop after Al Golden (who revived Temple football) left for Miami and yet they are in a better position than we are.
(10-18-2015 11:39 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote: [ -> ]I have a hard time believing that Temple has better facilities, plays before bigger crowds, and is more attractive than we are for academics. They were kicked out of the Big East and they recovered from their drop after Al Golden (who revived Temple football) left for Miami and yet they are in a better position than we are.
This.
Also ... there is no better example of what a motivated short-term coaching hire can do to elevate a program at our competitive level than Justin Fuente at Memphis (he was co-OC at TCU before taking the Memphis job).
Granted ... it took him a couple of years and he'll likely be gone this season or next ... but they'll be able to use this season to make the job more appealing to the next up and coming coordinator. Note that he was hired in 2012 and they've been ranked in the AP poll each of the last two seasons (finished last year at #25).
(10-18-2015 11:30 AM)Orange County Owl Wrote: [ -> ]http://espn.go.com/college-football/rank...015/week/8
Houston, Memphis, and Temple.
As much confidence as I have in our new admin, I sometimes wonder if we'll ever recover from the Greenspan fiasco.
Can you elaborate on the hypotheses that sit behind your post here?
I agree that Houston, Memphis, and Temple are undefeated and each holds a win over a P5 program.
I don't understand the reference to Greenspan, other than he was one of several AD's who gave an extension to our coach, who, unlike the coaches of Memphis and UH (don't know about Temple), will not be a candidate for P5 vacancies this off season.
If your premise is that a competent AD would have fired Bailiff after back to back 4-8 and hired Justin Fuente, I agree with you.
Greenspan reference relates to the conference realignment scenario, when he promoted the ill-fated CUSA/MWC merger while our peers bolted for the AAC.
I'm not naïve enough to think that our lack of an AAC invite was all his fault (there was much structural catch-up to do), but his primary calling card when hired was his "extensive connections in the AD world" given the pivotal moment we were at with realignment.
He failed.
(10-18-2015 12:13 PM)Orange County Owl Wrote: [ -> ]Greenspan reference relates to the conference realignment scenario, when he promoted the ill-fated CUSA/MWC merger while our peers bolted for the AAC.
I'm not naïve enough to think that our lack of an AAC invite was all his fault (there was much structural catch-up to do), but his primary calling card when hired was his "extensive connections in the AD world" given the pivotal moment we were at with realignment.
He failed.
Do you have a theory as to why Tulane is in the AAC and we are not?
(10-18-2015 12:38 PM)MemOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Do you have a theory as to why Tulane is in the AAC and we are not?
Same reason as Tulsa. They aren't in Houston.
Memphis, Houston, and even Temple care more about athletics than Rice does. That's obvious. They all have a lot more fans too, which helps. They don't have great academics at those schools, they depend more on football. No academic restrictions. Rice doesn't see football that way. I don't think the University wants to spend any more $ on football, and even the AAC requires that, so we're in the conference we deserve to be in.
(10-18-2015 12:43 PM)Pellet Wrote: [ -> ] (10-18-2015 12:38 PM)MemOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Do you have a theory as to why Tulane is in the AAC and we are not?
Same reason as Tulsa. They aren't in Houston.
Yet, that didn't seem to stop our invite to the previous version of CUSA back in 2004/5?
(10-18-2015 12:43 PM)Pellet Wrote: [ -> ] (10-18-2015 12:38 PM)MemOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Do you have a theory as to why Tulane is in the AAC and we are not?
Same reason as Tulsa. They aren't in Houston.
So the implication here is that Greenspan's job description was to out-compete UH for the one spot that Allen's Landing was going to be allocated in the AAC, and he failed to do that.
You will never convince me that the Rice/UH invite is/was 100% mutually exclusive. And I fully understand the TV/market dynamics.
At this point, our MBB RPI is probably a veto to either AAC/MWC - but I'm guessing that we all think that is soon to be remedied.
(10-18-2015 11:30 AM)Orange County Owl Wrote: [ -> ]As much confidence as I have in our new admin, I sometimes wonder if we'll ever recover from the Greenspan fiasco.
Precisely why time is of the essence. While we continue to dink and doink and pat ourselves on the back for 8 win seasons in C-USA (ranked by Sagarin as a smidge above the Sunbelt and far below everyone else) we are wasting precious time.
UH, Memphis, Temple etc. are already far ahead. We need to catch up, and fast.
Also, Memphis' win illustrates a great point about G5 rankings and relevance. The argument keeps getting made that Rice could become relevant by beating only C-USA folk. Memphis beat Missouri State, Kansas (P5, as people like to point out), Bowling Green, Cincy and USF. They were an afterthought and unranked going into yesterdays game. They take out Ole Miss and suddenly Fuentes is on ESPN as mid-year coach of the year, Memphis is top 20 etc. We saw the same thing with Marshall a few years ago (except they didn't have a statement win and thus were relegated to irrelevance).
(10-18-2015 12:13 PM)Orange County Owl Wrote: [ -> ]Greenspan reference relates to the conference realignment scenario, when he promoted the ill-fated CUSA/MWC merger while our peers bolted for the AAC.
I'm not naïve enough to think that our lack of an AAC invite was all his fault (there was much structural catch-up to do), but his primary calling card when hired was his "extensive connections in the AD world" given the pivotal moment we were at with realignment.
He failed.
Right. With the way things went, we probably weren't going to be included in the previous round of realignment. But having an inept AD absolutely guaranteed it.
Never hire somebody for his Rolodex if nobody answers his calls.
(10-18-2015 12:05 PM)MemOwl Wrote: [ -> ]If your premise is that a competent AD would have fired Bailiff after back to back 4-8 and hired Justin Fuente, I agree with you.
I was on board with firing Bailiff in 2011, but only if Greenspan went first.
In hindsight Fuente looks pretty great, but at the time it would have been weird to fire Bailiff and replace him with a different former Patterson assistant.
Greenspan's mocking "sandwich board" comments about UH are particularly infuriating in retrospect.
(10-18-2015 01:35 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ]Also, Memphis' win illustrates a great point about G5 rankings and relevance. The argument keeps getting made that Rice could become relevant by beating only C-USA folk. Memphis beat Missouri State, Kansas (P5, as people like to point out), Bowling Green, Cincy and USF. They were an afterthought and unranked going into yesterdays game. They take out Ole Miss and suddenly Fuentes is on ESPN as mid-year coach of the year, Memphis is top 20 etc. We saw the same thing with Marshall a few years ago (except they didn't have a statement win and thus were relegated to irrelevance).
UH got ranked without beating anyone ranked.
(10-18-2015 01:41 PM)Orange County Owl Wrote: [ -> ]Greenspan's mocking "sandwich board" comments about UH are particularly infuriating in retrospect.
Oh, but he was getting so much done behind the scenes!
(10-18-2015 01:35 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ]Also, Memphis' win illustrates a great point about G5 rankings and relevance. The argument keeps getting made that Rice could become relevant by beating only C-USA folk. Memphis beat Missouri State, Kansas (P5, as people like to point out), Bowling Green, Cincy and USF. They were an afterthought and unranked going into yesterdays game. They take out Ole Miss and suddenly Fuentes is on ESPN as mid-year coach of the year, Memphis is top 20 etc. We saw the same thing with Marshall a few years ago (except they didn't have a statement win and thus were relegated to irrelevance).
I don't disagree that beating a ranked SEC team is a good way to get your program some attention, but Memphis was #22 in the coaches poll already and #27 in the AP based on "others receiving votes"... So I'm not sure "afterthought and unranked" is really accurate.
(10-18-2015 01:16 PM)Orange County Owl Wrote: [ -> ]You will never convince me that the Rice/UH invite is/was 100% mutually exclusive. And I fully understand the TV/market dynamics.
At this point, our MBB RPI is probably a veto to either AAC/MWC - but I'm guessing that we all think that is soon to be remedied.
I'm pretty close to 100% sure that if Tulsa or (especially) Tulane were in Houston they would not have been invited either. If we were in NO, I think we would have. Tulsa, I'm not sure.
This is not to say that Greenspan was anything other than a disaster, I'm just not sure anyone could have helped us once the Big East started falling apart and picking off schools.
And while I think the AAC people who think they are a P5 conference are wrong, so are the Rice people who think it's a lateral move...
(10-18-2015 02:46 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-18-2015 01:35 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ]Also, Memphis' win illustrates a great point about G5 rankings and relevance. The argument keeps getting made that Rice could become relevant by beating only C-USA folk. Memphis beat Missouri State, Kansas (P5, as people like to point out), Bowling Green, Cincy and USF. They were an afterthought and unranked going into yesterdays game. They take out Ole Miss and suddenly Fuentes is on ESPN as mid-year coach of the year, Memphis is top 20 etc. We saw the same thing with Marshall a few years ago (except they didn't have a statement win and thus were relegated to irrelevance).
UH got ranked without beating anyone ranked.
I responded to this at length twice already.
UH was a press darling even before taking the field. They hired the former OC of the defending national champs, who orchestrated a NC win with a 3rd string QB. UH was a ESPN story already written. Look how much press coverage they got in the offseason. They weren't relevant last year at all.