(09-02-2015 01:01 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 12:53 PM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2015 11:07 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]I doubt Furman & Wofford (Presbyterian) or The Citadel (Chuck South) are too keen on promoting lesser programs in their own backyards.
Chuck South is 20 minutes away from El Cid, PC is 50 minutes from Furman and 45 from Wofford.
Look for either Campbell and/or Jacksonville to announce Big South football membership in the next few months. If Jacksonville goes I wouldn't be surprised to see Stetson join them.
Campbell would be the simplest add for Big South football, since it's already in the conference for non-fb.
But I guess there's no hard in Jacksonville and Stetson football going to the Big South. I don't think they'd leave ASun for non-fb, though.
The more I think about it, the more I see the Big South's best option being to go to limited-scholarship football while allowing non-scholarship programs to participate. Campbell, as you point out, is already a Big South member, and given how dire things are for them right now, I can't imagine they'd have a problem allowing Jacksonville, Stetson, and Davidson in as affiliate members. Presuming Liberty's out the door, that gives you nine members and some wiggle room if Monmouth goes to a more regionally appropriate league. And they'd still have their playoff bid, even if they went totally non-scholarship.
Might as well. The FCS gave friggin' Pioneer an auto-bid. Who needs scholarships??
(09-02-2015 01:01 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 12:53 PM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2015 11:07 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]I doubt Furman & Wofford (Presbyterian) or The Citadel (Chuck South) are too keen on promoting lesser programs in their own backyards.
Chuck South is 20 minutes away from El Cid, PC is 50 minutes from Furman and 45 from Wofford.
Look for either Campbell and/or Jacksonville to announce Big South football membership in the next few months. If Jacksonville goes I wouldn't be surprised to see Stetson join them.
Campbell would be the simplest add for Big South football, since it's already in the conference for non-fb.
But I guess there's no hard in Jacksonville and Stetson football going to the Big South. I don't think they'd leave ASun for non-fb, though.
The more I think about it, the more I see the Big South's best option being to go to limited-scholarship football while allowing non-scholarship programs to participate. Campbell, as you point out, is already a Big South member, and given how dire things are for them right now, I can't imagine they'd have a problem allowing Jacksonville, Stetson, and Davidson in as affiliate members. Presuming Liberty's out the door, that gives you nine members and some wiggle room if Monmouth goes to a more regionally appropriate league. And they'd still have their playoff bid, even if they went totally non-scholarship.
Thats a great idea!
They obviously cannot do that now with Liberty, but if Liberty were to leave would Presbyterian, Gardner Webb, and Charleston Southern really mind cutting down on scholarships. I know Gardner Webb plays some FBS schools so they might object to losing access to those buy games. Don't know about the other two.
(09-01-2015 08:02 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]Could South Carolina-Upstate be also thinking of football as well?
The fans want it. But the overlords in Columbia that micromanage the **** out of the branches do not. They weren't even allowed to build a Convocation Center for their D-1 basketball team. They are still in their NAIA gym that holds maybe 300.
I mean, if you want to unlock the computer labs after hours at USC-U you actually have to phone Columbia. I have a friend who is a professor there now, and it took Columbia over a year just to get her name tag outside her office.
The University of South Carolina really is an academic abomination. They micromanage. They DGAF about their Engineering school despite it crushing in every way and metric even the Honors College. They nickel and dime the students to death despite throwing up an 8 or 9 figure new building on campus every 18 months. And their campus has no master plan whatsoever. They appear to be modeling campus after Los Angeles. You could have a class at Swearingen .... catch a bus IMMEDIATELY after class .... and still be 10 minutes late for a foreign language class up around the horseshoe. The business school has some good professors. There are a few hidden within the Engineering school. The rest is abysmal.
(09-02-2015 01:09 PM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 01:01 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 12:53 PM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2015 11:07 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]I doubt Furman & Wofford (Presbyterian) or The Citadel (Chuck South) are too keen on promoting lesser programs in their own backyards.
Chuck South is 20 minutes away from El Cid, PC is 50 minutes from Furman and 45 from Wofford.
Look for either Campbell and/or Jacksonville to announce Big South football membership in the next few months. If Jacksonville goes I wouldn't be surprised to see Stetson join them.
Campbell would be the simplest add for Big South football, since it's already in the conference for non-fb.
But I guess there's no hard in Jacksonville and Stetson football going to the Big South. I don't think they'd leave ASun for non-fb, though.
The more I think about it, the more I see the Big South's best option being to go to limited-scholarship football while allowing non-scholarship programs to participate. Campbell, as you point out, is already a Big South member, and given how dire things are for them right now, I can't imagine they'd have a problem allowing Jacksonville, Stetson, and Davidson in as affiliate members. Presuming Liberty's out the door, that gives you nine members and some wiggle room if Monmouth goes to a more regionally appropriate league. And they'd still have their playoff bid, even if they went totally non-scholarship.
Thats a great idea!
They obviously cannot do that now with Liberty, but if Liberty were to leave would Presbyterian, Gardner Webb, and Charleston Southern really mind cutting down on scholarships. I know Gardner Webb plays some FBS schools so they might object to losing access to those buy games. Don't know about the other two.
FBS games are going to go away eventually, anyway.
Might as well start cutting FCS scholarship levels down to DII levels now. Save as much money as you can.
(09-02-2015 01:01 PM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]Even if Liberty leaves the Big south will still have 9 all sports members. That is plenty for them. They may seek a D2 upgrade to get back to 10 but other than that I do not understand the merger talk??
Their auto bid to the NCAA tournament is far from being in jeopardy even if Liberty leaves. The Big South has been stocking up on teams for this very reason. Big South football is at risk at losing its auto bid if Liberty leaves but that is it. The only all sports Big South teams that would effect would be Gardner Webb, Presbyterian, and High Point. They will find a 6th team somewhere like they have been doing the past decade.
The ASun and Big South are already working together, as seen in Kennesaw St. I just do not see where a merger benefits anyone.
But where? If they keep going full-scholarship, there's really no one left to take. Nobody from the SoCon or CAA will join the Big South unless they've been kicked out of their conference (I once thought overmatched Western Carolina might benefit from a downgrade, but they're starting to find their footing in a SoCon that no longer has Appalachian State). There's no independent programs. The regional non-scholarship schools won't add scholarships just to be in the Big South. Nobody's coming up from D2 yet.
Liberty's probably gone, and speaking of schools spending tons of money, I don't think High Point is making the capital improvements they're making for the sake of a long stay in the Big South. That would bring them down to eight, and that's fine for non-football purposes ... unless they are forced to stop sponsoring football, in which case the remaining programs may try to push for full membership somewhere where football is safe. That doesn't mean Gardner-Webb or Charleston Southern can snap their fingers and be in the SoCon or CAA, but it definitely adds to the instability.
Campbell, Jacksonville and Stetson football might benefit from more regional travel, than in the Pioneer.
I guess that'd be the main reason to move from Pioneer to Big South with no scholarships.
(09-02-2015 01:09 PM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 01:01 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 12:53 PM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2015 11:07 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]I doubt Furman & Wofford (Presbyterian) or The Citadel (Chuck South) are too keen on promoting lesser programs in their own backyards.
Chuck South is 20 minutes away from El Cid, PC is 50 minutes from Furman and 45 from Wofford.
Look for either Campbell and/or Jacksonville to announce Big South football membership in the next few months. If Jacksonville goes I wouldn't be surprised to see Stetson join them.
Campbell would be the simplest add for Big South football, since it's already in the conference for non-fb.
But I guess there's no hard in Jacksonville and Stetson football going to the Big South. I don't think they'd leave ASun for non-fb, though.
The more I think about it, the more I see the Big South's best option being to go to limited-scholarship football while allowing non-scholarship programs to participate. Campbell, as you point out, is already a Big South member, and given how dire things are for them right now, I can't imagine they'd have a problem allowing Jacksonville, Stetson, and Davidson in as affiliate members. Presuming Liberty's out the door, that gives you nine members and some wiggle room if Monmouth goes to a more regionally appropriate league. And they'd still have their playoff bid, even if they went totally non-scholarship.
Thats a great idea!
They obviously cannot do that now with Liberty, but if Liberty were to leave would Presbyterian, Gardner Webb, and Charleston Southern really mind cutting down on scholarships. I know Gardner Webb plays some FBS schools so they might object to losing access to those buy games. Don't know about the other two.
I didn't think about the loss of FBS games for programs that aren't running full scholarship teams, though I could see lower-level G5s still bringing them in because they'd be the cheapest date for homecoming. Coastal Carolina's annual FCS game will probably be a Big South program more often than not.
(09-02-2015 12:14 PM)NewTimes Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 11:44 AM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 08:28 AM)NewTimes Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 07:24 AM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 07:04 AM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]Its also a socon requirment to play football. They have made exceptions in the past to get to a 9/12 format and uncg still lives off that exception on the new 9/10 format both of which are very acceptable and practical.
The Socon is the most stable it has been in a long time. Mostly private/military schools with a handful of content smaller publics that have been around for awhile that won't dominate the privates like app and ga southern did
Chattanooga and East Tennessee State are not small public schools.
The snobs in Southern do not want a very large Liberty because of a:) Liberty's mission is different from the Southern's and b.:) Liberty is spending a lot of money like a drunken sailor.
Please. To begin the SoCo is a credible FCS conference having graduated the most successful FCS to FBS programs to date. Chattanooga, now that GaSt and Apps is gone, has had it's program excel. ETSU, is just re-joining after dismissing football several years ago. It was in today's local paper, that covers ETSU, they are having their first pep rally before Saturday's game. They are starting from scratch. They get a pass this year as they build their program. So ETSU is re-joining and has not been active in the conference for 10+years.
Regarding the Liberty comment. Have you been to their campus in the past, recently or ever? I am many others have and know their planned, orderly spending is in facilities and campus expansion. The drunken sailors comment more closely resembles booze buying at the local water dock pub, picking up hookers and spending with the "little head" vs. the "big head".
If you are going to post a comment, get at least some of your facts in order and be somewhat knowledgeable about the topic. Kicking Liberty out of the Big South Conference. I don't think so and most anyone who has any inkling about the Big South would agree. Kyle Kallander, is more likely on the phone to LU asking them what their every move is, in hopes of keeping his conference together than booting LU.
The Drunken Sailor part is a saying which I am talking about Liberty is spending money to try and get into the FBS. Like they are throwing money around to upgrade to FBS status. By the time if it is true on merging? Liberty could be in the FBS by then, and they would not be kicked out. Liberty claimed they have like 60,000 students or around that number. Mostly their online program which would make them larger than any of the Southern Conference schools.
East Tennesse State has Kenny Chesney involved in fund raising efforts. He could actually get money to get ETSU build faster than what you think.
I truly do not follow your thought process, post and position that you are attempting to convey.
What I mean that what I said was a metopher on the drunken sailor part.
About Liberty? I think so many schools in the D1 do not like them. Hence they are having troubles moving upwards. Maybe because who founded the University that is keeping them down? I would give every team a chance if I was voting in another bigger conference for them. Even though they may suck at certain sports, but they are big private school stuck where they are at.
(09-02-2015 01:21 PM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]Campbell, Jacksonville and Stetson football might benefit from more regional travel, than in the Pioneer.
I guess that'd be the main reason to move from Pioneer to Big South with no scholarships.
That's what I was thinking. It's one thing to have to compete against a full-scholarship Coastal Carolina or Liberty with no scholarships. It's another thing to compete against a 40-scholarship Presbyterian or Charleston Southern. And if they wanted to offer scholarships, 40's a more manageable goal. And no more trips to San Diego and Iowa to play in front of tumbleweeds!
Can't see the southern conference doing this move, maybe they expand to 12.
(09-02-2015 01:22 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 01:09 PM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 01:01 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 12:53 PM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2015 11:07 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]I doubt Furman & Wofford (Presbyterian) or The Citadel (Chuck South) are too keen on promoting lesser programs in their own backyards.
Chuck South is 20 minutes away from El Cid, PC is 50 minutes from Furman and 45 from Wofford.
Look for either Campbell and/or Jacksonville to announce Big South football membership in the next few months. If Jacksonville goes I wouldn't be surprised to see Stetson join them.
Campbell would be the simplest add for Big South football, since it's already in the conference for non-fb.
But I guess there's no hard in Jacksonville and Stetson football going to the Big South. I don't think they'd leave ASun for non-fb, though.
The more I think about it, the more I see the Big South's best option being to go to limited-scholarship football while allowing non-scholarship programs to participate. Campbell, as you point out, is already a Big South member, and given how dire things are for them right now, I can't imagine they'd have a problem allowing Jacksonville, Stetson, and Davidson in as affiliate members. Presuming Liberty's out the door, that gives you nine members and some wiggle room if Monmouth goes to a more regionally appropriate league. And they'd still have their playoff bid, even if they went totally non-scholarship.
Thats a great idea!
They obviously cannot do that now with Liberty, but if Liberty were to leave would Presbyterian, Gardner Webb, and Charleston Southern really mind cutting down on scholarships. I know Gardner Webb plays some FBS schools so they might object to losing access to those buy games. Don't know about the other two.
I didn't think about the loss of FBS games for programs that aren't running full scholarship teams, though I could see lower-level G5s still bringing them in because they'd be the cheapest date for homecoming. Coastal Carolina's annual FCS game will probably be a Big South program more often than not.
Doubtful. The Big South teams other than Liberty don't travel or draw in Conway now, that's not likely to change with a move to FBS.
I foresee a healthy diet of SC State and the NC MEAC schools combined with the SC SoCon schools. Pretty much whoever Clemson and South Carolina isn't playing that year.
Dayton have been mulling going to FBS. Could they use the Big South as a stepping stone? They might slowly implement scholarships until they get to the FCS allowance, and then get attractive for an FBS invite.
Morehead State could also benifit in the Big South for travel wise with no scholarship.
FGCU, Lipscomb, North Florida, Belmont, High Point, Winthrop could add football.
Longwood, Radford, UNC-Greensboro, have club teams. Could they add football to be part of the Big South? Columbus State also have a club team, and you get another Georgia school.
Lock Haven, West Chester, Kutztown, LeMoyne, Long Island Post, Pace, UAH, Lindenwood MO. (SWAC might be better for them), Findlay, Armstrong State, Georgia Regents, Coppin State (club), Winston-Salem State (could fit in The Big South better than the MEAC for travel wise), Florida Tech, West Florida, and many others from the southeast D2, Mid-Atlantic and Northeast could come in. There are many more D2, D3 and NAIA schools thinking about adding football. Oklahoma City U. wanted to get back into D1 as well.
(09-02-2015 01:24 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 01:21 PM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]Campbell, Jacksonville and Stetson football might benefit from more regional travel, than in the Pioneer.
I guess that'd be the main reason to move from Pioneer to Big South with no scholarships.
That's what I was thinking. It's one thing to have to compete against a full-scholarship Coastal Carolina or Liberty with no scholarships. It's another thing to compete against a 40-scholarship Presbyterian or Charleston Southern. And if they wanted to offer scholarships, 40's a more manageable goal. And no more trips to San Diego and Iowa to play in front of tumbleweeds!
They could see if Radford, Longwood, Winthrop and College of Charleston to make their club team into a no scholarship like Jacksonville and them. Columbus State as well. It is something to do. Columbus State is a big tv market to grab.
I've attended Big South home/away games at Liberty, VMI, Western Carolina, and App St (while FCS and last year as FBS). And I've watched games at Coastal and JMU and noticed the attendance. Liberty, since the program turned around in the past 5 years, travels with at least double the fans to the NEXT Big South team which was Coastal. All other teams playing in Lynchburg are lucky, at best to have 150-200 fans at Williams Stadium. Only games with William & Mary, and with VMI when they play decent would exceed 200+ fans. Gardner-Webb, Presby, Chuck South stretch to get to that low mark. The seating section where Liberty reserves for visiting fans is ALWAYS an easy place to find an available seat.
The more I hear the point for a reduction of scholies to 40, the more that makes sense, after Liberty is gone for the BSC. That's a backward position for Liberty and they would never accept that. All others just might.
(09-02-2015 01:46 PM)NewTimes Wrote: [ -> ]I've attended Big South home/away games at Liberty, VMI, Western Carolina, and App St (while FCS and last year as FBS). And I've watched games at Coastal and JMU and noticed the attendance. Liberty, since the program turned around in the past 5 years, travels with at least double the fans to the NEXT Big South team which was Coastal. All other teams playing in Lynchburg are lucky, at best to have 150-200 fans at Williams Stadium. Only games with William & Mary, and with VMI when they play decent would exceed 200+ fans. Gardner-Webb, Presby, Chuck South stretch to get to that low mark. The seating section where Liberty reserves for visiting fans is ALWAYS an easy place to find an available seat.
The more I hear the point for a reduction of scholies to 40, the more that makes sense, after Liberty is gone for the BSC. That's a backward position for Liberty and they would never accept that. All others just might.
Liberty may have to play Independent until a conference at the FBS level decides to add them holding their nose. It is more of s discrimination from other schools about them than anything else. Maybe way too conservative for other conferences?
(09-02-2015 01:42 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 01:24 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 01:21 PM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]Campbell, Jacksonville and Stetson football might benefit from more regional travel, than in the Pioneer.
I guess that'd be the main reason to move from Pioneer to Big South with no scholarships.
That's what I was thinking. It's one thing to have to compete against a full-scholarship Coastal Carolina or Liberty with no scholarships. It's another thing to compete against a 40-scholarship Presbyterian or Charleston Southern. And if they wanted to offer scholarships, 40's a more manageable goal. And no more trips to San Diego and Iowa to play in front of tumbleweeds!
They could see if Radford, Longwood, Winthrop and College of Charleston to make their club team into a no scholarship like Jacksonville and them. Columbus State as well. It is something to do. Columbus State is a big tv market to grab.
Neither Winthrop nor College of Charleston have club tackle football teams.
http://www.winthrop.edu/recservices/defa...x?id=30211
http://campusrec.cofc.edu/sport-clubs/contacts.php
(09-02-2015 02:23 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 01:42 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 01:24 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 01:21 PM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]Campbell, Jacksonville and Stetson football might benefit from more regional travel, than in the Pioneer.
I guess that'd be the main reason to move from Pioneer to Big South with no scholarships.
That's what I was thinking. It's one thing to have to compete against a full-scholarship Coastal Carolina or Liberty with no scholarships. It's another thing to compete against a 40-scholarship Presbyterian or Charleston Southern. And if they wanted to offer scholarships, 40's a more manageable goal. And no more trips to San Diego and Iowa to play in front of tumbleweeds!
They could see if Radford, Longwood, Winthrop and College of Charleston to make their club team into a no scholarship like Jacksonville and them. Columbus State as well. It is something to do. Columbus State is a big tv market to grab.
Neither Winthrop nor College of Charleston have club tackle football teams.
http://www.winthrop.edu/recservices/defa...x?id=30211
http://campusrec.cofc.edu/sport-clubs/contacts.php
There's a lot more sizzle than steak with this article, but I guess the topic of football has been broached at College of Charleston:
http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20.../150829229
I'd be somewhat surprised if they added football, especially if they only have eyes for FCS, but that'd get you a CoC-Charleston Southern game at least.
(09-02-2015 02:37 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 02:23 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 01:42 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 01:24 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2015 01:21 PM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]Campbell, Jacksonville and Stetson football might benefit from more regional travel, than in the Pioneer.
I guess that'd be the main reason to move from Pioneer to Big South with no scholarships.
That's what I was thinking. It's one thing to have to compete against a full-scholarship Coastal Carolina or Liberty with no scholarships. It's another thing to compete against a 40-scholarship Presbyterian or Charleston Southern. And if they wanted to offer scholarships, 40's a more manageable goal. And no more trips to San Diego and Iowa to play in front of tumbleweeds!
They could see if Radford, Longwood, Winthrop and College of Charleston to make their club team into a no scholarship like Jacksonville and them. Columbus State as well. It is something to do. Columbus State is a big tv market to grab.
Neither Winthrop nor College of Charleston have club tackle football teams.
http://www.winthrop.edu/recservices/defa...x?id=30211
http://campusrec.cofc.edu/sport-clubs/contacts.php
There's a lot more sizzle than steak with this article, but I guess the topic of football has been broached at College of Charleston:
http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20.../150829229
I'd be somewhat surprised if they added football, especially if they only have eyes for FCS, but that'd get you a CoC-Charleston Southern game at least.
As the article says, it's broached just about every year and gets shot down every year. They simply do not have the money
Quote:Currently, College of Charleston students pay $1,210 a year in athletic fees, which is nearly 70 percent of the school’s revenue for its athletic programs. If the Cougars add a football program, that fee would most likely increase.
Quote:The College of Charleston fielded a football team from 1897 to 1923. But reviving a program that has been dormant for nearly a century could be a tough sell for an athletic department that lost money last year. According to NCAA figures, the Cougars’ athletic department ran a deficit of $681,000 in 2014.
Rumor has it the loss isn't expected to change. Supposedly the only way that moving to the CAA from the SoCon was going to be even revenue neutral was if Davidson went with them. As we all know Davidson didn't go with them.
A fellow Liberty poster found this article today about how Coastal was a better fit for the Big South rather than the SBC from the Leigh guys. I know it's a stretch within this thread but it is a little related:
http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com...f.html?m=1