CSNbbs

Like I said before- BYU to me is kind of a sort of P5.

At bare minimum Big Ten champ will have 9 conference games, 1 CCG, and BYU.

Also what's going to be interesting to watch, will the specific P5 games start getting better and better. I mean, there's a difference between Alabama playing against Wisconsin and TCU for instance playing Minnesota.

(08-31-2015 01:21 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]Like I said before- BYU to me is kind of a sort of P5.

At bare minimum Big Ten champ will have 9 conference games, 1 CCG, and BYU.

Also what's going to be interesting to watch, will the specific P5 games start getting better and better. I mean, there's a difference between Alabama playing against Wisconsin and TCU for instance playing Minnesota.

Not as much as you might think! Check back at the end of this season.

(08-31-2015 01:21 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]Like I said before- BYU to me is kind of a sort of P5.

At bare minimum Big Ten champ will have 9 conference games, 1 CCG, and BYU.

Its supposed to be a "peer" P5, which for the weaker Big Ten schools clearly allows for Wake Forest, Vandy, Wazzu, etc. And taking all P5 schools into consideration, and not just the "Kings" and "Princes", BYU is at that level.

BYU will count the same as a P5 in the eyes of the CFP committee. That's what matters.

(09-01-2015 09:38 AM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]BYU will count the same as a P5 in the eyes of the CFP committee. That's what matters.

I don't think you can say that at all. I mean you have 2 teams. One plays BYU, and the other plays Boise St. I don't think for a second that the team that plays BYU would automatically get more credit than the one who played Boise. Also, if Boise is 11-1 and BYU is 7-5, the one playing Boise will get far more credit than the one playing BYU.

Also look at BYU in 2017. They play LSU, Utah, Wisconsin, Boise, and Miss St. Their other 7 games- Utah St, ECU, San Jose St, Fresno St, UNLV, UMass, and Hawaii. You can't say with a straight face that they would count the same as a P5 team. No chance in hell there.

(08-31-2015 01:21 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]Like I said before- BYU to me is kind of a sort of P5.

At bare minimum Big Ten champ will have 9 conference games, 1 CCG, and BYU.

I get what you've been trying to say about this on this thread about it being a "worst case scenario," but I think your point has just gone over some peoples heads. Just stick with 11 P5 games consisting of 9 conference games, one OOC P5 game, and the CCG as the "worst case"scenario for the B1G champion, and leave out the details on BYU as a p5 Equivalent, and they'll understand what you mean and agree with you.

The thing is, BYU in some(and I think quite frankly most) years isn't the equivalent of a P5 team. I mean, in 2017, they have 5 good games- with only 4 P5 games. How in the hell is that equal to a team that has at least 8 P5 conference games, if not 9, along with almost surely a P5 OOC game?

(09-01-2015 05:27 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]The thing is, BYU in some(and I think quite frankly most) years isn't the equivalent of a P5 team. I mean, in 2017, they have 5 good games- with only 4 P5 games. How in the hell is that equal to a team that has at least 8 P5 conference games, if not 9, along with almost surely a P5 OOC game?

It's the team, not who they play. In most years, BYU is the equivalent of at least an average average P5 team - not a weak P5 team.

As for the "Power" schedules - 2017 is a great example of a VERY P5-esque schedule.

LSU, Wisconsin, Utah, Mississippi St. are the four actual P5 opponents - and all are good P5 - no Purdue, Wake Forest, Vandy, Colorado or Kansas types.

Then, Boise St., ECU, Utah St., and Fresno St. all are at least the equivalent of weak P5 teams. Boise St. has recently beaten #10 Arizona and Washington. ECU has recently beaten Virginia Tech (the week after the Hokies beat Ohio St. - who eventually won the CFP), North Carolina (x2), and NC State. Fresno St. has recently beaten Rutgers and Colorado. Utah St. has recently beaten Wake Forest and Utah.

Now, I readily admit that SJSU, UNLV, UMass, and Hawaii are not P5 quality teams. But, how is that 4-game set any different than Duke's recent "P5" schedule that included OOC games against Elon, Troy, Tulane, and Kansas?

OR Purdue who played Western Michigan, Central Michigan, and Southern Illinois?

OR Vanderbilt who played Temple, UMass, Charleston Southern, and Old Dominion?

OR Arizona who played UNLV, UTSA, and Nevada?

OR Oregon St. who played Portland St., Hawaii, and SDSU?

Or Colorado who plays Hawaii, UMass, Colorado St., and Nicholls State?

OR Boston College who plays Main, Howard, and Northern Illinois?

Or Baylor who played SMU, Northwestern State, and Buffalo?

And that doesn't factor in the "P5" games that Baylor has against Kansas and Iowa St. or that Oregon St. and Arizona have with Washington St. and Colorado or that Purdue has with Indiana, Illinois, and Northwestern, or that Boston College has with Wake Forest and Syracuse.

well the 3 Pac 12 schools all have a 9th conference game, so that blows up in your face...

Purdue plays Notre Dame so that blows up in your face.

Boston College plays Notre Dame so that blows up in your face.

Baylor has a 9th conference game as well so that blows up in your face

The ONLY one of the teams you listed that comes close to what you are saying is Vanderbilt. And they had the SEC East plus both Mississippi schools. And Duke I'd give you as well...

So no, BYU's schedule in 2017 is NOT equal to what P5's are scheduling.

BYU is used by some P5 conferences as a way of scheduling somebody that they can claim is P5 without actually having to play a P5. Any conference who counts Army as P5 for scheduling purposes is doing the same thing. At the same time many schools will still ask 2-1s with BYU or the like since they still can it is a big win for many P5 schools in scheduling. BYU gets the benefit of marketing and getting some names on the schedule when it can.

Now there are P5 schools that are not even as good as BYU most years but they may cost more to come to town as they may try to pull the "We do home and home or not at all" or they have such a lousy reputation in football that even the P5 status does not even help.

I think BYU is going to upset the Huskers this weekend. Whole state is going to go on suicide watch and Mormons will be in serious danger within the borders for at least the next decade.

(09-01-2015 05:27 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]The thing is, BYU in some(and I think quite frankly most) years isn't the equivalent of a P5 team. I mean, in 2017, they have 5 good games- with only 4 P5 games. How in the hell is that equal to a team that has at least 8 P5 conference games, if not 9, along with almost surely a P5 OOC game?

You sort of answered your own question. The few games they play against P5 teams, means it is going to be rare that they are playing Big Ten teams in the first place, and even more rare that the Big Ten champion will play them, and even more rare that they will play them, and it will be their best OOC game. So even though I get what you are saying, just let it go, as it will likely never come up where a Big Ten champion plays BYU OOC, and it is their only marquee OOC game.

(09-01-2015 06:22 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]well the 3 Pac 12 schools all have a 9th conference game, so that blows up in your face...

Purdue plays Notre Dame so that blows up in your face.

Boston College plays Notre Dame so that blows up in your face.

Baylor has a 9th conference game as well so that blows up in your face

The ONLY one of the teams you listed that comes close to what you are saying is Vanderbilt. And they had the SEC East plus both Mississippi schools. And Duke I'd give you as well...

So no, BYU's schedule in 2017 is NOT equal to what P5's are scheduling.

Not having a schedule of at least 9 P5 games does not disqualify them from being considered a P5.

If that's your only card to play, you lost the hand.

(09-01-2015 06:26 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote: [ -> ]BYU is used by some P5 conferences as a way of scheduling somebody that they can claim is P5 without actually having to play a P5. Any conference who counts Army as P5 for scheduling purposes is doing the same thing. At the same time many schools will still ask 2-1s with BYU or the like since they still can it is a big win for many P5 schools in scheduling. BYU gets the benefit of marketing and getting some names on the schedule when it can.

Now there are P5 schools that are not even as good as BYU most years but they may cost more to come to town as they may try to pull the "We do home and home or not at all" or they have such a lousy reputation in football that even the P5 status does not even help.

Considering Army and Navy as P5 for scheduling probably has more to do with set future schedules then actually considering them a true P5 equivalent.

BYU is a true P5 equivalent.

(09-02-2015 11:36 AM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-01-2015 06:22 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]well the 3 Pac 12 schools all have a 9th conference game, so that blows up in your face...

Purdue plays Notre Dame so that blows up in your face.

Boston College plays Notre Dame so that blows up in your face.

Baylor has a 9th conference game as well so that blows up in your face

The ONLY one of the teams you listed that comes close to what you are saying is Vanderbilt. And they had the SEC East plus both Mississippi schools. And Duke I'd give you as well...

So no, BYU's schedule in 2017 is NOT equal to what P5's are scheduling.

Not having a schedule of at least 9 P5 games does not disqualify them from being considered a P5.

If that's your only card to play, you lost the hand.

The problem is like in 2017, BYU has 4 P5 games, and then 4 sort of P5 games. Meanwhile a normal P5 team will have at least 8 P5 conference games and then another P5 OOC game. And a lot will have 9 P5 conference and another P5 OOC game. So no, BYU is not equal to a normal P5 team. Not a chance. And the committee wouldn't really look at BYU as being equal to a P5 team.

And yes, I would expect BYU most years to be used by the weaker programs in the conference so they could be bowl eligible.

(09-02-2015 11:43 AM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-02-2015 11:36 AM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-01-2015 06:22 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]well the 3 Pac 12 schools all have a 9th conference game, so that blows up in your face...

Purdue plays Notre Dame so that blows up in your face.

Boston College plays Notre Dame so that blows up in your face.

Baylor has a 9th conference game as well so that blows up in your face

The ONLY one of the teams you listed that comes close to what you are saying is Vanderbilt. And they had the SEC East plus both Mississippi schools. And Duke I'd give you as well...

So no, BYU's schedule in 2017 is NOT equal to what P5's are scheduling.

Not having a schedule of at least 9 P5 games does not disqualify them from being considered a P5.

If that's your only card to play, you lost the hand.

The problem is like in 2017, BYU has 4 P5 games, and then 4 sort of P5 games. Meanwhile a normal P5 team will have at least 8 P5 conference games and then another P5 OOC game. And a lot will have 9 P5 conference and another P5 OOC game. So no, BYU is not equal to a normal P5 team. Not a chance. And the committee wouldn't really look at BYU as being equal to a P5 team.

And yes, I would expect BYU most years to be used by the weaker programs in the conference so they could be bowl eligible.

So you read my argument, correctly understood it ... then proceeded to just re-state your previous argument.


As I said, that BYU does not have a P5 schedule does not disqualify them from being a P5 (equivalent) team. The committee will side with me. They'll consider wins over BYU as having the same value, at least, as wins over Colorado, Washington St, etc.

(09-02-2015 12:20 PM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-02-2015 11:43 AM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-02-2015 11:36 AM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-01-2015 06:22 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]well the 3 Pac 12 schools all have a 9th conference game, so that blows up in your face...

Purdue plays Notre Dame so that blows up in your face.

Boston College plays Notre Dame so that blows up in your face.

Baylor has a 9th conference game as well so that blows up in your face

The ONLY one of the teams you listed that comes close to what you are saying is Vanderbilt. And they had the SEC East plus both Mississippi schools. And Duke I'd give you as well...

So no, BYU's schedule in 2017 is NOT equal to what P5's are scheduling.

Not having a schedule of at least 9 P5 games does not disqualify them from being considered a P5.

If that's your only card to play, you lost the hand.

The problem is like in 2017, BYU has 4 P5 games, and then 4 sort of P5 games. Meanwhile a normal P5 team will have at least 8 P5 conference games and then another P5 OOC game. And a lot will have 9 P5 conference and another P5 OOC game. So no, BYU is not equal to a normal P5 team. Not a chance. And the committee wouldn't really look at BYU as being equal to a P5 team.

And yes, I would expect BYU most years to be used by the weaker programs in the conference so they could be bowl eligible.

So you read my argument, correctly understood it ... then proceeded to just re-state your previous argument.


As I said, that BYU does not have a P5 schedule does not disqualify them from being a P5 (equivalent) team. The committee will side with me. They'll consider wins over BYU as having the same value, at least, as wins over Colorado, Washington St, etc.

But they would see a win over Boise St as at least as good as BYU, if not better.

(09-02-2015 12:24 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-02-2015 12:20 PM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-02-2015 11:43 AM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-02-2015 11:36 AM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-01-2015 06:22 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]well the 3 Pac 12 schools all have a 9th conference game, so that blows up in your face...

Purdue plays Notre Dame so that blows up in your face.

Boston College plays Notre Dame so that blows up in your face.

Baylor has a 9th conference game as well so that blows up in your face

The ONLY one of the teams you listed that comes close to what you are saying is Vanderbilt. And they had the SEC East plus both Mississippi schools. And Duke I'd give you as well...

So no, BYU's schedule in 2017 is NOT equal to what P5's are scheduling.

Not having a schedule of at least 9 P5 games does not disqualify them from being considered a P5.

If that's your only card to play, you lost the hand.

The problem is like in 2017, BYU has 4 P5 games, and then 4 sort of P5 games. Meanwhile a normal P5 team will have at least 8 P5 conference games and then another P5 OOC game. And a lot will have 9 P5 conference and another P5 OOC game. So no, BYU is not equal to a normal P5 team. Not a chance. And the committee wouldn't really look at BYU as being equal to a P5 team.

And yes, I would expect BYU most years to be used by the weaker programs in the conference so they could be bowl eligible.

So you read my argument, correctly understood it ... then proceeded to just re-state your previous argument.


As I said, that BYU does not have a P5 schedule does not disqualify them from being a P5 (equivalent) team. The committee will side with me. They'll consider wins over BYU as having the same value, at least, as wins over Colorado, Washington St, etc.

But they would see a win over Boise St as at least as good as BYU, if not better.

The obvious difference, of course, being that the P conferences consider BYU a P5 equivalent for scheduling. They don't for Boise.

That is the foundation for even having this discussion.

(09-02-2015 12:41 PM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-02-2015 12:24 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-02-2015 12:20 PM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-02-2015 11:43 AM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-02-2015 11:36 AM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]Not having a schedule of at least 9 P5 games does not disqualify them from being considered a P5.

If that's your only card to play, you lost the hand.

The problem is like in 2017, BYU has 4 P5 games, and then 4 sort of P5 games. Meanwhile a normal P5 team will have at least 8 P5 conference games and then another P5 OOC game. And a lot will have 9 P5 conference and another P5 OOC game. So no, BYU is not equal to a normal P5 team. Not a chance. And the committee wouldn't really look at BYU as being equal to a P5 team.

And yes, I would expect BYU most years to be used by the weaker programs in the conference so they could be bowl eligible.

So you read my argument, correctly understood it ... then proceeded to just re-state your previous argument.


As I said, that BYU does not have a P5 schedule does not disqualify them from being a P5 (equivalent) team. The committee will side with me. They'll consider wins over BYU as having the same value, at least, as wins over Colorado, Washington St, etc.

But they would see a win over Boise St as at least as good as BYU, if not better.

The obvious difference, of course, being that the P conferences consider BYU a P5 equivalent for scheduling. They don't for Boise.

That is the foundation for even having this discussion.

Dude you are so lost it's not funny. The CFP committee doesn't give a rip what the P5 conferences think of BYU. All that matters is what the CFP committee thinks of BYU/Boise. And right now, a win over Boise is worth a whole hell of a lot more than a win over BYU. I mean last year Boise BEAT BYU.

(09-02-2015 12:46 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-02-2015 12:41 PM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-02-2015 12:24 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-02-2015 12:20 PM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-02-2015 11:43 AM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]The problem is like in 2017, BYU has 4 P5 games, and then 4 sort of P5 games. Meanwhile a normal P5 team will have at least 8 P5 conference games and then another P5 OOC game. And a lot will have 9 P5 conference and another P5 OOC game. So no, BYU is not equal to a normal P5 team. Not a chance. And the committee wouldn't really look at BYU as being equal to a P5 team.

And yes, I would expect BYU most years to be used by the weaker programs in the conference so they could be bowl eligible.

So you read my argument, correctly understood it ... then proceeded to just re-state your previous argument.


As I said, that BYU does not have a P5 schedule does not disqualify them from being a P5 (equivalent) team. The committee will side with me. They'll consider wins over BYU as having the same value, at least, as wins over Colorado, Washington St, etc.

But they would see a win over Boise St as at least as good as BYU, if not better.

The obvious difference, of course, being that the P conferences consider BYU a P5 equivalent for scheduling. They don't for Boise.

That is the foundation for even having this discussion.

Dude you are so lost it's not funny. The CFP committee doesn't give a rip what the P5 conferences think of BYU. All that matters is what the CFP committee thinks of BYU/Boise. And right now, a win over Boise is worth a whole hell of a lot more than a win over BYU. I mean last year Boise BEAT BYU.

Last year Virginia Tech beat Ohio St. BYU draws over 50k, Boise draws 30k. The programs aren't at the same level.


Then the P conferences would give P5 equivalent status to Boise. But they don't. Thus the committee will consider BYU a P5 equivalent win, but not Boise.


You have your opinion, I have mine. Neither of us can prove it. So that's that, don't waste your time.