The writing is on the wall. Lacrosse is coming soon (I hope)
An interesting move amid a trend of schools dropping sports. I assume they are adding both men's and women's to be compliant with Title IX. The article notes Hampton previously said they would add Lacrosse and Soccer, but no mention of which gender (or both). Could be men's lacrosse and women's soccer. While we're at it let's bring Hampton into the CAA. They'd be a great addition, and I had a blast at a basketball game we played at their place a few years ago.
HU told Inside Lacrosse it was mens lacrosse at a minimum.
Question is whether program will be fully funded. STX, Brine, Cascade, Warrior, Nike, and Maverick will all want to sponsor the first HBCU D-1 program since Morgan State, so I dont think equipment and travel costs will be a huge concern. NCAA currently allows 12.5 scholarships for mens lacrosse. With HU's already-low tuition, a half-scholarship will be a really strong inducement. If not, they will really struggle.
And yes, I agree the writing is on the wall. Richmond has been extremely successful (making the NCAA tournament last year, losing in overtime in the conference final this year). Having watched UR several times, they will compete with the top 10 schools within three to five years if they continue to grow as they have.
And in fact, the CAA would love to have another team in mens lacrosse - so that may be exactly what HU is thinking. The CAA's RPI in mens lacrosse is pretty low; Towson (the conference champion) is stuck in a play-in game.
As for W+M, I recently discussed this with people from the athletic department at the New York Auction. The discussions about men's lacrosse take place regularly. It will surprise no one that the issue is cost; Reveley appears to support the idea. The dollar figure ranges from $10M (bare bones for a mens program and a womens equivalent under Title IX) to $30M (fully funded, facilities, ACC-caliber coaching compensation). From a competitive standpoint, we could probably compete with 9 scholarships, which would drive down the cost significantly, if we were willing to follow Richmond's model and take chances on kids from non-traditional areas. Our in-state tuition will make us very attractive for the large group of just-below ACC-caliber players in Northern Virginia that currently end up in the Big 10, the Patriot League, the Big East, the Atlantic Sun, or as top players in Division III. We would also be an extremely attractive option for a number of top Division III head coaches (in particular, Lynchburg's Steve Koudelka) who do not receive high compensation.
Cool. This could change the game
Hampton U has a women's softball team so they may not need to add another sport to satisfy Title IX requirements.
Never happen but you can dream/wish!
Its pretty cool HU is adding Lax.
(05-05-2015 07:20 PM)Paulbintheburg Wrote: [ -> ] (05-05-2015 04:31 PM)ttgwm02 Wrote: [ -> ]HU told Inside Lacrosse it was mens lacrosse at a minimum.
Question is whether program will be fully funded. STX, Brine, Cascade, Warrior, Nike, and Maverick will all want to sponsor the first HBCU D-1 program since Morgan State, so I dont think equipment and travel costs will be a huge concern.
How do you know this?
Because he wants lacrosse more than anything in Tribe sports
I'd love for us to add Men's Lax, but I think we should focus more on the sports we already have. We sponsor 21 sports, which is a lot for a school of our size. UVA has 23, Tech has 17, JMU has 17, ODU has 18. Currently, Hampton sponsors just 14 sports.
That said, if we can get the money for it, I do love watching Lacrosse.
My feelings on adding men's LAX aside, no one can argue that W&M isn't a LAX-type of school.
My biggest issue is I think we have too many sports as it is. We need to stop spreading resources all over the place and build/fully support select programs.
65 enjoys being a thorn in my side on the issue.
I have friends who work for those companies and there is no question that HU will be able to take their pick among sponsor companies, who generally provide equipment and apparel to programs free of charge. The PR value alone of sponsoring an HBCU will make the deal worthwhile.
I was a little surprised to see that HU already named their club coach as the new head; he has the playing resume but recruiting D1 players is a different ball game.
As for WM athletics, lacrosse is a sport where we could be a legitimate NCAA contender. Not a CAA contender, and not a regional or mid- major "player", but a contender capable of reaching the quarterfinals and maybe the final four. Will we ever get that far in soccer again? Or baseball? Or swimming?
With no marquee program in the CAA we could be in the NCAAs in 4-5 years. Scholarships are killing the ivy league. UVa is well on the way to being a perennial ACC doormat. Conference SOS is their only saving grace. We are more attractive than Georgetown and are a stronger school than Richmond or High Point. Shoot fellas, its a no-brainer for us. We dont need any new facilities and our geography and academic profile put us right smack in the lacrosse recruiting happy hunting ground.
Congrats to Richmond (and HU) for having the foresight to see that taking a chance on really competing in mens lax was better than aiming for mediocrity in sports where you can never dream of consistently beating the big boys.
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(05-06-2015 12:05 AM)ttgwm02 Wrote: [ -> ]65 enjoys being a thorn in my side on the issue.
I have friends who work for those companies and there is no question that HU will be able to take their pick among sponsor companies, who generally provide equipment and apparel to programs free of charge. The PR value alone of sponsoring an HBCU will make the deal worthwhile.
I was a little surprised to see that HU already named their club coach as the new head; he has the playing resume but recruiting D1 players is a different ball game.
As for WM athletics, lacrosse is a sport where we could be a legitimate NCAA contender. Not a CAA contender, and not a regional or mid- major "player", but a contender capable of reaching the quarterfinals and maybe the final four. Will we ever get that far in soccer again? Or baseball? Or swimming?
With no marquee program in the CAA we could be in the NCAAs in 4-5 years. Scholarships are killing the ivy league. UVa is well on the way to being a perennial ACC doormat. Conference SOS is their only saving grace. We are more attractive than Georgetown and are a stronger school than Richmond or High Point. Shoot fellas, its a no-brainer for us. We dont need any new facilities and our geography and academic profile put us right smack in the lacrosse recruiting happy hunting ground.
Congrats to Richmond (and HU) for having the foresight to see that taking a chance on really competing in mens lax was better than aiming for mediocrity in sports where you can never dream of consistently beating the big boys.
Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App
Can't argue with any of that, 02.
My only question is how much appeal would being a top 25 LAX program bring to W&M? I rarely see LAX on TV and never hear about it on the radio. Who here can tell me who won the men's college soccer championship last year? I see LAX as equally irrelevant when it comes to exposure.
Chances of currently adding men's lacrosse appear slim to none..even though Taylor Reveley and Terry Driscoll would love to have it at the College.
With 23 sports the finances are daunting at best, impossible at worst. The, of course, Title Nine is the gorilla in the room.
We'd have to drop men's gymnastics and another sport (swimming, golf?) to balance the scales and that is just not going to happen (swimming just won the CAA championship with ZERO scholarships...and gymnastics is too
politically wrapped up with the long-time coach and an incredibly rich academic record and performance of the athletes).
Even if they were dropped (I'm fantasizing) how does Title Nine balance the nine or so scholarships men's lacrosse would require? You really, at least as far as I know, would need to drop nine men's scholarships from other sports to balance the scale.
I just don't see it happening.
(05-06-2015 06:22 AM)Big Tribe Wrote: [ -> ]Chances of currently adding men's lacrosse appear slim to none..even though Taylor Reveley and Terry Driscoll would love to have it at the College.
With 23 sports the finances are daunting at best, impossible at worst. The, of course, Title Nine is the gorilla in the room.
We'd have to drop men's gymnastics and another sport (swimming, golf?) to balance the scales and that is just not going to happen (swimming just won the CAA championship with ZERO scholarships...and gymnastics is too
politically wrapped up with the long-time coach and an incredibly rich academic record and performance of the athletes).
Even if they were dropped (I'm fantasizing) how does Title Nine balance the nine or so scholarships men's lacrosse would require? You really, at least as far as I know, would need to drop nine men's scholarships from other sports to balance the scale.
I just don't see it happening.
Yes the voice of reason
(05-06-2015 01:46 AM)Tribal Wrote: [ -> ]Can't argue with any of that, 02.
My only question is how much appeal would being a top 25 LAX program bring to W&M? I rarely see LAX on TV and never hear about it on the radio. Who here can tell me who won the men's college soccer championship last year? I see LAX as equally irrelevant when it comes to exposure.
I see lacrosse on television all the time. The ESPN networks even broadcast regular season games. Also our student body already comes from lacrosse hotbeds. Lax was the #2 sport at my high school. And that's just in NoVa. I know that it's even more important in other parts of the country (Jersey, Maryland)
(05-05-2015 07:27 PM)wanm65 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-05-2015 07:20 PM)Paulbintheburg Wrote: [ -> ] (05-05-2015 04:31 PM)ttgwm02 Wrote: [ -> ]HU told Inside Lacrosse it was mens lacrosse at a minimum.
Question is whether program will be fully funded. STX, Brine, Cascade, Warrior, Nike, and Maverick will all want to sponsor the first HBCU D-1 program since Morgan State, so I dont think equipment and travel costs will be a huge concern.
How do you know this?
Because he wants lacrosse more than anything in Tribe sports
He isn't completely wrong about how lacrosse would fit at W&M. A little too optimistic but not wrong. It's a growing sport and many of the schools W&M compares itself to have lacrosse programs. Someone would have to write a check to make it happen. What's the lottery up to these days?
I don't think there's any question lacrosse would be a good add. The issue is with limited resources, what do you cut to add lacrosse? If I'm reading the comments from those in the know correct, we'd need scholarships. That means reducing men's schollies somewhere else or adding women's. I think it's safe to agree that adding women's is off the table (though if we had unlimited resources I'd vote for adding beach volleyball which is apparently a varsity sport now). Where do we cut men's from? I'm no expert on which sports are or aren't scholarship, but let's look at the men's sports we have and which is the logical one to cut:
Baseball: One of the major sports, and Joe Plumeri could single-handedly block this one.
Basketball: No, just because.
Golf: Traditionally not so strong, but they did finish second this year. Also I'm almost positive this is a non-scholarship sport.
Soccer: Long tradition of success here, and even though this year wasn't as great, the program is well established and in no danger.
Tennis: Won the CAA championship this year.
Cross Country: Something like 97% of our CAA championships come from these guys. They are they ones who give us bragging rights over everyone else in the conference. Give them whatever they need.
Football: I can't even keep a straight face when trying to come up with a joking response...so no, just because.
Gymnastics: Another program with a lot of success both on and off the playing surface (field? floor? mat? bars?)
Swimming: Consistently performs well.
Track & Field: This is probably the one that merits the most consideration given there are only three schools left in our conference. However they too have a long history of success, and there's just something right and fitting about such a historic school competing in events that schools back in the old world have been competing in for a looooong time.
The point I'm making is that to swap Lacrosse for a sport would be a hard sell. Granted things change and sports decline, but to do a wholesale swap I feel like you'd need a reason for booting the other program. On field performance isn't a viable reason for any of our current sports. Exposure or revenue isn't viable because I really don't see lacrosse adding exposure or bringing in money any more than any of the other sports it would potentially replace. Sure ESPN carries some lacrosse games when there's nothing else on, and sure a lot of people in the northeast play lacrosse. Last time I checked though, we aren't hurting for applications from the northeast. Again, this is not to say lacrosse would not be a great thing to add. My point is that I don't think lacrosse holds the kind of sway in convincing students to attend a school (not that any of our sports really do that for non-athletes). I know very little about lacrosse, but it's an exciting sport to watch and if we had a team, I'd be there cheering and would love the rivalries it would bring. I just don't see where it squeezes in. What's that saying...better to go with the devil you know than the one you don't?
If you need 9 scholies (add 9 for women) & you have 18. Need over a million each to endow; so lets round up to $20M.
Then expenses for coaches, recruiting, travel, etc. so add another $10M endowed.
And you are already up to $30M.
So there is your starting goal.
There is one other argument I've been toying around with that might arouse some support on this board. If we were to start men's lacrosse, perhaps we could receive support from the Onendoga tribe and the Iroquois nation [the largest Native American tribes which continue to play lacrosse and "medicine games"] and petition the NCAA to permit us to put the feathers on our lacrosse and football helmets as a tribute to the Creator.