RED DIVISION (East)
Cincinnati
ECU
Temple
UCF
UConn
USF
WHITE DIVISION (Central)
Houston
Memphis
SMU
Tulane
Tulsa
*NIU
BLUE DIVISION (West)
*Boise St.
*BYU
*Colorado St.
*Fresno St.
*San Diego St.
*UNLV
STARS-&-STRIPES DIVISION (Military Academies)
*Air Force (West)
*Army (East)
Navy (Central)
It's basically the current American divisions, but add:
- a separate military academies division - move Navy with Army and Air Force;
- NIU in the Central;
- the 6-team Western division.
8-game schedule: Red, White, and Blue divisions play five intra-division games and one game against each of the other three divisions. Military academies play each other and four games against their aligned division (Army-East, Navy-Central, Air Force-West) and one game against the other two divisions.
Conference championship = the two best division winners. If NCAA allows, could have small, three-game championship involving all four division winners over consecutive weekends.
Bowl Games:
- NY6 (Fiesta, Peach, or Cotton) - almost de facto for American Champ
- Military v. ACC
- Las Vegas v. PAC 12
- Birmingham v. SEC
- St. Petersburg v. ACC
- Armed Forces v. Big 12
- Poinsettia v. MWC
- Miami Beach v. C-USA
- Bahamas v. MAC
- Little Rock (apparently) v. Sun Belt
- Famous Idaho Potato v. MAC
- New Orleans v. Sun Belt
- Alternate: Cactus Bowl (v. Big 12/PAC 12) and Liberty Bowl (v. SEC/ACC)
In addition to a corner on the market for the most competitive G5 football programs and all three military academies (fantastic for the American brand), the conference would have members in 8 of the top 10 states (by population), a member in or within 1-2 hours of 12 of the top 20 markets (by TV households), and cover nearly 60% of the the US population.
For basketball, go with 3 scheduling divisions, placing Air Force in the West, Cincinnati in the Central, and Navy and Army in the East. Play 12 games (H-H) against your division (for regional intrigue) and 6 games rotating through the other 14 schools. Bball tournament could rotate among Las Vegas, New Orleans, and New York - or something like that. You're probably talking minimum 5 or 6 bids, with the upside for 8 or 9 bids.
Thoughts?
Where's Hawai'i and Alaska-Anchorage? Might as well call up American-Puerto Rico while we're at if it's a true American Conference.
On a serious note, I no longer subscribe to this type of gerrymandering and long for the days of at least semi-regional conferences made of 8-10 teams because of round-robin play.
That's... actually pretty damn well thought out. Almost turns the AAC into a pseudo-P5 with the potential to become one. However, good luck getting BYU and Boise st to bite on this.
(03-30-2015 06:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote: [ -> ]Where's Hawai'i and Alaska-Anchorage? Might as well call up American-Puerto Rico while we're at if it's a true American Conference.
On a serious note, I no longer subscribe to this type of gerrymandering and long for the days of at least semi-regional conferences made of 8-10 teams because of round-robin play.
It's better than reading a Miko thread...
(03-30-2015 06:20 PM)Stay Cool Wrote: [ -> ]That's... actually pretty damn well thought out. Almost turns the AAC into a pseudo-P5 with the potential to become one. However, good luck getting BYU and Boise st to bite on this.
Selling points for BYU:
- Substantial UPGRADE in bowl situation
- Actual ACCESS to the NY6
- National scheduling in conference play
- Meaningful November schedules
- Conference championship for which to play
- In-Conference rivalries - Boise St. and old MWC foes
- Still 4 out-of-conference games to play P5
- Upgrade in basketball, but still with regionality
Selling points for Boise St.:
- De facto NY6 bid for the conference
- Upgrade in bowls (chance to play Big 12, ACC, SEC without having to win conference)
- Develop in-conference rivalry with BYU
- Keep annual game in California
- No more trips to Laramie
- Upgrade in basketball, but still with regionality
(03-30-2015 06:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote: [ -> ]Where's Hawai'i and Alaska-Anchorage? Might as well call up American-Puerto Rico while we're at if it's a true American Conference.
On a serious note, I no longer subscribe to this type of gerrymandering and long for the days of at least semi-regional conferences made of 8-10 teams because of round-robin play.
The proposed divisions provide this regionality. But, you're part of something bigger that will actually have the potential to compete at something closer to the P5 level. The "American" brand would actually fit the conference; as is, the American brand is nothing but a C-USA remake - aka, completely disrespected.
(03-30-2015 06:33 PM)YNot Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2015 06:20 PM)Stay Cool Wrote: [ -> ]That's... actually pretty damn well thought out. Almost turns the AAC into a pseudo-P5 with the potential to become one. However, good luck getting BYU and Boise st to bite on this.
Selling points for BYU:
- Substantial UPGRADE in bowl situation
- Actual ACCESS to the NY6
- National scheduling in conference play
- Conference championship for which to play
- In-Conference rivalries - Boise St. and old MWC foes
- Still 4 out-of-conference games to play P5
- Upgrade in basketball, but still with regionality
Selling points for Boise St.:
- De facto NY6 bid for the conference
- Upgrade in bowls (chance to play Big 12, ACC, SEC without having to win conference)
- Develop in-conference rivalry with BYU
- Keep annual game in California
- No more trips to Laramie
- Upgrade in basketball, but still with regionality
As an NIU fan hell, I'm all for it. It kinda smells of NCAA separation though...
Army is P5, by law and rules and regulations and official P5 manual, we aren't allowed to associate with you.
Seriously, if Army had to join a conference, this proposal is acceptable to me.
Good work.
(03-30-2015 06:13 PM)YNot Wrote: [ -> ]RED DIVISION (East)
Cincinnati
ECU
Temple
UCF
UConn
USF
WHITE DIVISION (Central)
Houston
Memphis
SMU
Tulane
Tulsa
*NIU
BLUE DIVISION (West)
*Boise St.
*BYU
*Colorado St.
*Fresno St.
*San Diego St.
*UNLV
STARS-&-STRIPES DIVISION (Military Academies)
*Air Force (West)
*Army (East)
Navy (Central)
It's basically the current American divisions, but add:
- a separate military academies division - move Navy with Army and Air Force;
- NIU in the Central;
- the 6-team Western division.
8-game schedule: Red, White, and Blue divisions play five intra-division games and one game against each of the other three divisions. Military academies play each other and four games against their aligned division (Army-East, Navy-Central, Air Force-West) and one game against the other two divisions.
Conference championship = the two best division winners. If NCAA allows, could have small, three-game championship involving all four division winners over consecutive weekends.
Bowl Games:
- NY6 (Fiesta, Peach, or Cotton) - almost de facto for American Champ
- Military v. ACC
- Las Vegas v. PAC 12
- Birmingham v. SEC
- St. Petersburg v. ACC
- Armed Forces v. Big 12
- Poinsettia v. MWC
- Miami Beach v. C-USA
- Bahamas v. MAC
- Little Rock (apparently) v. Sun Belt
- Famous Idaho Potato v. MAC
- New Orleans v. Sun Belt
- Alternate: Cactus Bowl (v. Big 12/PAC 12) and Independence Bowl (v. SEC/ACC)
In addition to a corner on the market for the most competitive G5 football programs and all three military academies (fantastic for the American brand), the conference would have members in 8 of the top 10 states (by population), a member in or within 1-2 hours of 12 of the top 20 markets (by TV households), and cover nearly 60% of the the US population.
For basketball, go with 3 scheduling divisions, placing Air Force in the West, Cincinnati in the Central, and Navy and Army in the East. Play 12 games (H-H) against your division (for regional intrigue) and 6 games rotating through the other 14 schools. Bball tournament could rotate among Las Vegas, New Orleans, and New York - or something like that. You're probably talking minimum 5 or 6 bids, with the upside for 8 or 9 bids.
Thoughts?
I like it, but I don't think it's practical.
Talk to your BYU boys and get back with us when you convince them.
(03-30-2015 06:46 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2015 06:13 PM)YNot Wrote: [ -> ]RED DIVISION (East)
Cincinnati
ECU
Temple
UCF
UConn
USF
WHITE DIVISION (Central)
Houston
Memphis
SMU
Tulane
Tulsa
*NIU
BLUE DIVISION (West)
*Boise St.
*BYU
*Colorado St.
*Fresno St.
*San Diego St.
*UNLV
STARS-&-STRIPES DIVISION (Military Academies)
*Air Force (West)
*Army (East)
Navy (Central)
It's basically the current American divisions, but add:
- a separate military academies division - move Navy with Army and Air Force;
- NIU in the Central;
- the 6-team Western division.
8-game schedule: Red, White, and Blue divisions play five intra-division games and one game against each of the other three divisions. Military academies play each other and four games against their aligned division (Army-East, Navy-Central, Air Force-West) and one game against the other two divisions.
Conference championship = the two best division winners. If NCAA allows, could have small, three-game championship involving all four division winners over consecutive weekends.
Bowl Games:
- NY6 (Fiesta, Peach, or Cotton) - almost de facto for American Champ
- Military v. ACC
- Las Vegas v. PAC 12
- Birmingham v. SEC
- St. Petersburg v. ACC
- Armed Forces v. Big 12
- Poinsettia v. MWC
- Miami Beach v. C-USA
- Bahamas v. MAC
- Little Rock (apparently) v. Sun Belt
- Famous Idaho Potato v. MAC
- New Orleans v. Sun Belt
- Alternate: Cactus Bowl (v. Big 12/PAC 12) and Independence Bowl (v. SEC/ACC)
In addition to a corner on the market for the most competitive G5 football programs and all three military academies (fantastic for the American brand), the conference would have members in 8 of the top 10 states (by population), a member in or within 1-2 hours of 12 of the top 20 markets (by TV households), and cover nearly 60% of the the US population.
For basketball, go with 3 scheduling divisions, placing Air Force in the West, Cincinnati in the Central, and Navy and Army in the East. Play 12 games (H-H) against your division (for regional intrigue) and 6 games rotating through the other 14 schools. Bball tournament could rotate among Las Vegas, New Orleans, and New York - or something like that. You're probably talking minimum 5 or 6 bids, with the upside for 8 or 9 bids.
Thoughts?
I like it, but I don't think it's practical.
Talk to your BYU boys and get back with us when you convince them.
Correct, but I think if you could get BYU and Boise involved the rest would fall like dominoes. Nifty thoughts to say the least, but I dont see anything like this happening unless it's to challenge the NCAA
(03-30-2015 06:52 PM)Stay Cool Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2015 06:46 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote: [ -> ]I like it, but I don't think it's practical.
Talk to your BYU boys and get back with us when you convince them.
Correct, but I think if you could get BYU and Boise involved the rest would fall like dominoes. Nifty thoughts to say the least, but I dont see anything like this happening unless it's to challenge the NCAA
How is it a challenge to the NCAA?
I guess I'm assuming that the conference championship de-regulation passes. That would definitely be essential.
(03-30-2015 06:55 PM)YNot Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2015 06:52 PM)Stay Cool Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2015 06:46 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote: [ -> ]I like it, but I don't think it's practical.
Talk to your BYU boys and get back with us when you convince them.
Correct, but I think if you could get BYU and Boise involved the rest would fall like dominoes. Nifty thoughts to say the least, but I dont see anything like this happening unless it's to challenge the NCAA
How is it a challenge to the NCAA?
I guess I'm assuming that the conference championship de-regulation passes. That would definitely be essential.
That was my point on the "challenging the NCAA" part
(03-30-2015 06:20 PM)Stay Cool Wrote: [ -> ]That's... actually pretty damn well thought out. Almost turns the AAC into a pseudo-P5 with the potential to become one. However, good luck getting BYU and Boise st to bite on this.
I like it too. In fact, I like it with or without BYU. Not worried about Boise---get everyone else and Boise will follow. I like it better with BYU---but it would be pretty darn good without them as well. Its an interesting spin on the often discussed best of the rest G5 conference.
(03-30-2015 06:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote: [ -> ]Where's Hawai'i and Alaska-Anchorage? Might as well call up American-Puerto Rico while we're at if it's a true American Conference.
On a serious note, I no longer subscribe to this type of gerrymandering and long for the days of at least semi-regional conferences made of 8-10 teams because of round-robin play.
Barring promotion to a power conference, if we are ever in a true round robin regional conference again, Im afraid it wont be with the schools you probably long to play against.
These 14-16 team monstrosities will break up and divide eventually like the WAC-16 and we'll be back to square one.
(03-30-2015 07:17 PM)_C2_ Wrote: [ -> ]These 14-16 team monstrosities will break up and divide eventually like the WAC-16 and we'll be back to square one.
16 had nothing to do with the WAC breakup. The reality---what we are doing doesn't work and doesn't produce meaningful income. Can a nationwide conference do better? I think it can, but I have no proof. I do have plenty of proof that what we are doing is close to worthless, has always been worthless, and has a long history being barely worth 10% of the value of power conferences through MULTIPLE contract cycles.
Seems to me, we G5 types can continue onward with a failed regional/half continent models, or we can try something different. I just don't see where we have much to lose. You fear ending up at square one. Well, the alternative is simply staying at square one. At least one option offers the possibility of improvement. The other offers nothing but continued failure.
(03-30-2015 07:17 PM)_C2_ Wrote: [ -> ]These 14-16 team monstrosities will break up and divide eventually like the WAC-16 and we'll be back to square one.
The fact that you focus on the numerical similarities between such concepts and the WAC-16 instead of illustrating the massive differences just shows that you want the WAC to be your sign of the future so that college sports don't become something you don't wish to see.
The WAC had zero monetary power. It had nothing to tie all the regions together like we do now with Network Money and binding contracts.
In fact the 16 team similarity is the ONLY similarity.
Now this idea presented in this thread is nice. Perhaps the creator of it has seen my presentations of the future 20 team AAC. Personally it is my belief that the AAC will attempt to try to maintain pace at a step or two behind the Majors while at the same time pushing the other conferences that same distance behind the AAC. I don't think the Academies will be able to keep up with that effort nor will they want to. That is why the inclusion of the academies is a nice feeling ideal but I don't think it is very realistic. They will be allowed to have "P5 schedule strength" so that they can maintain their focused mission while not being forced into becoming profit motivated nor having to stomach facing lower quality programs. The sports programs of the academies are purely about presenting the Services to the young Americans watching sports. They Need to play big programs for that but it goes against their mission to engage in spending wars.
They would have to engage in that practice if they wanted to compete in such a conference. They are better off as Independents, including the Air Force.
There is so much more to tie together distant regions of the country now than there ever was in the time of the WAC.
No, the WAC overexpanded and thus the MWC, especially the core mountain schools, cut out the fat as well as the expensive plane trip to Hawai'i. They thought they could add schools in major TV markets to impress the networks and it backfired both in that many of their regional rivalries were broken up that may have brought ratings and none of the markets those schools were in (DFW, Bay Area, Houston, Tulsa) cared about them.
We're seeing history repeat itself with even the long time established leagues adding schools who add nothing in the revenue sports just because of their market (e.g. Rutgers) and expanding to the point where many of their long time rivalries are dying or dead.
You honestly believe Rutgers adds nothing to The Big Ten? We have already seen that empirically proven incorrect......ALREADY.
You are projecting your personal feelings into all of this. Rutgers' rivalries died when everyone else left. Maryland's rivalries died when schools like Duke, North Carolina and Virginia decided to not play them every year in basketball. Now, Maryland will build new rivalries with Penn State and Rutgers. When we have more divisions that are smaller, then the rivalries of the future will dwarf the old rivalries.
The prophecy that you are preaching is old news and has nothing but empty rhetoric to back it up. This isn't personal so don't take it personal. This is just an old argument made by many others before you and every time it turns into one side of the argument having all the evidence on their side while the others having nothing but empty rhetoric.
Don't choose to go down that path simply because you don't like the way things are going.
(03-30-2015 10:10 PM)_C2_ Wrote: [ -> ]No, the WAC overexpanded and thus the MWC, especially the core mountain schools, cut out the fat as well as the expensive plane trip to Hawai'i. They thought they could add schools in major TV markets to impress the networks and it backfired in both that many of their regional rivalries were broken up that may have brought ratings and none of the markets those schools were in (DFW, Bay Area, Houston, Tulsa) cared about them.
We're seeing history repeat itself with even the long time established leagues adding schools who add nothing in the revenue sports just because of their market (e.g. Rutgers) and expanding to the point where many of their long time rivalries are dying or dead.
We also got rid of those cool buggy whips and big floating hydrogen filled airships. Hey, If I had my druthers, I'd want to see the SWC return. But its not happening. We need to figure out how to generate more income before the gap gets so large that a new division is forced upon us. A national best-of-the-rest G5 conference may be the best lifeboat for 16-24 top G5 schools. Frankly, my preference runs to a 24 team conference with 4 6-team regional pods. Basically, the pods give you the regional flavor many college fans crave (like yourself), while the nationwide aspects of the conference give the league an unprecedented footprint and a presence in virtually every major region of the country. Its literally the perfect property for a NATIONAL sports network.