CSNbbs

I am proud of our men's basketball team and what they accomplished this year! Yes, I would liked to have won it all, but I firmly believe we will next year. Let's encourage our team and coaches! Go Dukes!

(03-10-2015 08:11 AM)huge fan Wrote: [ -> ]I am proud of our men's basketball team and what they accomplished this year! Yes, I would liked to have won it all, but I firmly believe we will next year. Let's encourage our team and coaches! Go Dukes!

I agree. I enjoyed watching each of them improve as individuals and the team improve as a whole. Thanks for posting something positive on this board.

How is the APR looking after Nation left the team?

What exactly are we supposed to be proud of? They played out the schedule? They were over .500?

Frankly, i think we should do the opposite of be proud, and force our team to live up to our standards, instead of me lowering my standards to meet their poor results.

Improvement will open happen if we demand more from our administation and leadership. Saying "wahoo, great job boys!" for what really amounts to a disappointing season accomplishes nothing.

(03-10-2015 11:49 AM)DukeDoggyDogg Wrote: [ -> ]What exactly are we supposed to be proud of? They played out the schedule? They were over .500?

Frankly, i think we should do the opposite of be proud, and force our team to live up to our standards, instead of me lowering my standards to meet their poor results.

Improvement will open happen if we demand more from our administation and leadership. Saying "wahoo, great job boys!" for what really amounts to a disappointing season accomplishes nothing.

I agree with your view and attitude, but how much demanding does it take?

(03-10-2015 03:53 PM)jmutoml757 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-10-2015 11:49 AM)DukeDoggyDogg Wrote: [ -> ]What exactly are we supposed to be proud of? They played out the schedule? They were over .500?

Frankly, i think we should do the opposite of be proud, and force our team to live up to our standards, instead of me lowering my standards to meet their poor results.

Improvement will open happen if we demand more from our administation and leadership. Saying "wahoo, great job boys!" for what really amounts to a disappointing season accomplishes nothing.

I agree with your view and attitude, but how much demanding does it take?

Ok so i'm not trying to be a total hard-a$$ or anything but this is truly how i feel. and how much? ...

I think it is enough when the direction of the program matches the expectations of the fans. Results (wins/losses, championships, producing professional talent, etc.) are nice metrics to use, but I don't even need annual championships to be satisfied.

i want to look at my team and feel comfortable with their vision, and believe in the direction they are heading in. I want to see momentum build, and steady improvement, and a consistent philosophy that is hopefully a winning one.

as a fan base, we can take a few losing/rebuilding seasons if you say, "i know what they're doing, they're building something, it makes sense, and i can get behind it." but to be sputtering around the bottom, not showing any institutional growth or genuine improvement, having other issues on the side (behavioral, academic, law related)... it doesnt sit right.

that's why i ask again... what are we proud of exactly for this season? what progress was made? what did we do to further our organizational goals? i see no answers to those questions, all quantitative results aside.

I will continue to demand until i can get behind a vision and direction that i believe and eventually will need to sustainable, positive results.

(03-10-2015 04:02 PM)DukeDoggyDogg Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-10-2015 03:53 PM)jmutoml757 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-10-2015 11:49 AM)DukeDoggyDogg Wrote: [ -> ]What exactly are we supposed to be proud of? They played out the schedule? They were over .500?

Frankly, i think we should do the opposite of be proud, and force our team to live up to our standards, instead of me lowering my standards to meet their poor results.

Improvement will open happen if we demand more from our administation and leadership. Saying "wahoo, great job boys!" for what really amounts to a disappointing season accomplishes nothing.

I agree with your view and attitude, but how much demanding does it take?

Ok so i'm not trying to be a total hard-a$$ or anything but this is truly how i feel. and how much? ...

I think it is enough when the direction of the program matches the expectations of the fans. Results (wins/losses, championships, producing professional talent, etc.) are nice metrics to use, but I don't even need annual championships to be satisfied.

i want to look at my team and feel comfortable with their vision, and believe in the direction they are heading in. I want to see momentum build, and steady improvement, and a consistent philosophy that is hopefully a winning one.

as a fan base, we can take a few losing/rebuilding seasons if you say, "i know what they're doing, they're building something, it makes sense, and i can get behind it." but to be sputtering around the bottom, not showing any institutional growth or genuine improvement, having other issues on the side (behavioral, academic, law related)... it doesnt sit right.

that's why i ask again... what are we proud of exactly for this season? what progress was made? what did we do to further our organizational goals? i see no answers to those questions, all quantitative results aside.

I will continue to demand until i can get behind a vision and direction that i believe and eventually will need to sustainable, positive results.

I agree that we need a vision, goals, execution to achieve those goals, and accountability when we do achieve and when you don't. When the athletic strategic plan is released, I think folks will be pleased with the metrics. We went over aspects of it at the Duke Club Board meeting on Friday but we were asked not to disclose it. I am not sure exactly when the strategic plan will be public but I think it may be this month.

(03-10-2015 04:53 PM)HotHamandCheese84 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-10-2015 04:02 PM)DukeDoggyDogg Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-10-2015 03:53 PM)jmutoml757 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-10-2015 11:49 AM)DukeDoggyDogg Wrote: [ -> ]What exactly are we supposed to be proud of? They played out the schedule? They were over .500?

Frankly, i think we should do the opposite of be proud, and force our team to live up to our standards, instead of me lowering my standards to meet their poor results.

Improvement will open happen if we demand more from our administation and leadership. Saying "wahoo, great job boys!" for what really amounts to a disappointing season accomplishes nothing.

I agree with your view and attitude, but how much demanding does it take?

Ok so i'm not trying to be a total hard-a$$ or anything but this is truly how i feel. and how much? ...

I think it is enough when the direction of the program matches the expectations of the fans. Results (wins/losses, championships, producing professional talent, etc.) are nice metrics to use, but I don't even need annual championships to be satisfied.

i want to look at my team and feel comfortable with their vision, and believe in the direction they are heading in. I want to see momentum build, and steady improvement, and a consistent philosophy that is hopefully a winning one.

as a fan base, we can take a few losing/rebuilding seasons if you say, "i know what they're doing, they're building something, it makes sense, and i can get behind it." but to be sputtering around the bottom, not showing any institutional growth or genuine improvement, having other issues on the side (behavioral, academic, law related)... it doesnt sit right.

that's why i ask again... what are we proud of exactly for this season? what progress was made? what did we do to further our organizational goals? i see no answers to those questions, all quantitative results aside.

I will continue to demand until i can get behind a vision and direction that i believe and eventually will need to sustainable, positive results.

I agree that we need a vision, goals, execution to achieve those goals, and accountability when we do achieve and when you don't. When the athletic strategic plan is released, I think folks will be pleased with the metrics. We went over aspects of it at the Duke Club Board meeting on Friday but we were asked not to disclose it. I am not sure exactly when the strategic plan will be public but I think it may be this month.

Does the AD get an out-right exemption or a 20 year get-out-of-jail free card?

There were so many positives this year. Beating a Hofstra team with better talent twice, 12 conference wins, beating UR, an excellent road record and many players improving greatly since last year. A solid season and one to build on.

(03-10-2015 10:14 PM)JMUNation Wrote: [ -> ]There were so many positives this year. Beating a Hofstra team with better talent twice, 12 conference wins, beating UR, an excellent road record and many players improving greatly since last year. A solid season and one to build on.

And my point would be that your expectations are too low, and you are too easily satisfied.

Would that be a good year for a new coach in an improving conference? Sure. Absolutely. Is that the situation we are in? Clearly not.

7 years in to this coaches tenure.. you are happy with beating UR and beating a Hofstra team that beat us the only time it mattered...? and i would argue that the "positives" are vastly outweighed by the negatives you do not mention. from just one year ago, until this moment...

taylor bessick transfers
charles cooke transfers
nation/vodanovich fights and suspension
nation kicked off the team
one and done in conference tournament
0-6 and beat easily by the top 3 teams in the conference
conference as a whole not nearly as strong

sorry. if you're happy with that, you and i are a different kind of fan. i want my team/school to want more. if they fall short, i will praise a good effort and say "go get'em next year"... but if i don't think they want success enough, or aren't taking the proper steps to get there, i can't get behind it. Can't put lipstick on this pig. It was an average to below average all around season, and one in a muddled mess of mediocrity that is the Matt Brady era and surrounds JMU Athletics as a whole.

EW represents an atmosphere and positive change i can get behind, if someone is looking for an example. It's not all about results, but visiona and direction. yes, they failed, but i am BEHIND that program because i believe in what they're doing.

(03-11-2015 07:54 AM)DukeDoggyDogg Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-10-2015 10:14 PM)JMUNation Wrote: [ -> ]There were so many positives this year. Beating a Hofstra team with better talent twice, 12 conference wins, beating UR, an excellent road record and many players improving greatly since last year. A solid season and one to build on.

And my point would be that your expectations are too low, and you are too easily satisfied.

Would that be a good year for a new coach in an improving conference? Sure. Absolutely. Is that the situation we are in? Clearly not.

7 years in to this coaches tenure.. you are happy with beating UR and beating a Hofstra team that beat us the only time it mattered...? and i would argue that the "positives" are vastly outweighed by the negatives you do not mention. from just one year ago, until this moment...

taylor bessick transfers
charles cooke transfers
nation/vodanovich fights and suspension
nation kicked off the team
one and done in conference tournament
0-6 and beat easily by the top 3 teams in the conference
conference as a whole not nearly as strong

sorry. if you're happy with that, you and i are a different kind of fan. i want my team/school to want more. if they fall short, i will praise a good effort and say "go get'em next year"... but if i don't think they want success enough, or aren't taking the proper steps to get there, i can't get behind it. Can't put lipstick on this pig. It was an average to below average all around season, and one in a muddled mess of mediocrity that is the Matt Brady era and surrounds JMU Athletics as a whole.

EW represents an atmosphere and positive change i can get behind, if someone is looking for an example. It's not all about results, but visiona and direction. yes, they failed, but i am BEHIND that program because i believe in what they're doing.

I agree with Dog's take all the way, but unfortunately, EW will not be with us very long I fear.

(03-11-2015 07:54 AM)DukeDoggyDogg Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-10-2015 10:14 PM)JMUNation Wrote: [ -> ]There were so many positives this year. Beating a Hofstra team with better talent twice, 12 conference wins, beating UR, an excellent road record and many players improving greatly since last year. A solid season and one to build on.

And my point would be that your expectations are too low, and you are too easily satisfied.

Would that be a good year for a new coach in an improving conference? Sure. Absolutely. Is that the situation we are in? Clearly not.

7 years in to this coaches tenure.. you are happy with beating UR and beating a Hofstra team that beat us the only time it mattered...? and i would argue that the "positives" are vastly outweighed by the negatives you do not mention. from just one year ago, until this moment...

taylor bessick transfers
charles cooke transfers
nation/vodanovich fights and suspension
nation kicked off the team
one and done in conference tournament
0-6 and beat easily by the top 3 teams in the conference
conference as a whole not nearly as strong

sorry. if you're happy with that, you and i are a different kind of fan. i want my team/school to want more. if they fall short, i will praise a good effort and say "go get'em next year"... but if i don't think they want success enough, or aren't taking the proper steps to get there, i can't get behind it. Can't put lipstick on this pig. It was an average to below average all around season, and one in a muddled mess of mediocrity that is the Matt Brady era and surrounds JMU Athletics as a whole.

EW represents an atmosphere and positive change i can get behind, if someone is looking for an example. It's not all about results, but visiona and direction. yes, they failed, but i am BEHIND that program because i believe in what they're doing.

The problems the basketball team has are the same issues the football team deals with here and across the nation. We had a okay season , if not for one player the excitement for this season was pretty good. And sports is all about results.

(03-11-2015 02:32 PM)Hotrod829 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-11-2015 07:54 AM)DukeDoggyDogg Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-10-2015 10:14 PM)JMUNation Wrote: [ -> ]There were so many positives this year. Beating a Hofstra team with better talent twice, 12 conference wins, beating UR, an excellent road record and many players improving greatly since last year. A solid season and one to build on.

And my point would be that your expectations are too low, and you are too easily satisfied.

Would that be a good year for a new coach in an improving conference? Sure. Absolutely. Is that the situation we are in? Clearly not.

7 years in to this coaches tenure.. you are happy with beating UR and beating a Hofstra team that beat us the only time it mattered...? and i would argue that the "positives" are vastly outweighed by the negatives you do not mention. from just one year ago, until this moment...

taylor bessick transfers
charles cooke transfers
nation/vodanovich fights and suspension
nation kicked off the team
one and done in conference tournament
0-6 and beat easily by the top 3 teams in the conference
conference as a whole not nearly as strong

sorry. if you're happy with that, you and i are a different kind of fan. i want my team/school to want more. if they fall short, i will praise a good effort and say "go get'em next year"... but if i don't think they want success enough, or aren't taking the proper steps to get there, i can't get behind it. Can't put lipstick on this pig. It was an average to below average all around season, and one in a muddled mess of mediocrity that is the Matt Brady era and surrounds JMU Athletics as a whole.

EW represents an atmosphere and positive change i can get behind, if someone is looking for an example. It's not all about results, but visiona and direction. yes, they failed, but i am BEHIND that program because i believe in what they're doing.

The problems the basketball team has are the same issues the football team deals with here and across the nation. We had a okay season , if not for one player the excitement for this season was pretty good. And sports is all about results.

OK first of all i didn't say the problems are unique to JMU. But 2 or 3 or 100 wrongs don't make it right. So everyone on this board needs to stop excusing the academic, behavioral, and legal issues of the prgram just because they happen elsewhere. They happened, they are negatives, they are now a pattern... so i do not and did not dismiss them.

second, i didnt say they were unique to basketball. obviously i know about the moreland/stallings issue with the football team among others. again, irrelevant to my point. if the pattern continues with the leadership currently in place i will have the same critique for football or any other sport.

finally... the results. yes, i know sports is all about results. im saying its easier to swallow disappointing results if the vision and direction is in place and the alum/fans believe greater results are to follow.

i give you football as the example. sure, they disappointed us with the Liberty loss, but no one on this board is as irritated with that program as basketball. we say to ourselves... "ok, 1st year QB, 1st year coach, new system, will bring in his first true recruiting class next year, energy, excitement, etc."... and we can deal with "the results".

(03-11-2015 02:51 PM)DukeDoggyDogg Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-11-2015 02:32 PM)Hotrod829 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-11-2015 07:54 AM)DukeDoggyDogg Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-10-2015 10:14 PM)JMUNation Wrote: [ -> ]There were so many positives this year. Beating a Hofstra team with better talent twice, 12 conference wins, beating UR, an excellent road record and many players improving greatly since last year. A solid season and one to build on.

And my point would be that your expectations are too low, and you are too easily satisfied.

Would that be a good year for a new coach in an improving conference? Sure. Absolutely. Is that the situation we are in? Clearly not.

7 years in to this coaches tenure.. you are happy with beating UR and beating a Hofstra team that beat us the only time it mattered...? and i would argue that the "positives" are vastly outweighed by the negatives you do not mention. from just one year ago, until this moment...

taylor bessick transfers
charles cooke transfers
nation/vodanovich fights and suspension
nation kicked off the team
one and done in conference tournament
0-6 and beat easily by the top 3 teams in the conference
conference as a whole not nearly as strong

sorry. if you're happy with that, you and i are a different kind of fan. i want my team/school to want more. if they fall short, i will praise a good effort and say "go get'em next year"... but if i don't think they want success enough, or aren't taking the proper steps to get there, i can't get behind it. Can't put lipstick on this pig. It was an average to below average all around season, and one in a muddled mess of mediocrity that is the Matt Brady era and surrounds JMU Athletics as a whole.

EW represents an atmosphere and positive change i can get behind, if someone is looking for an example. It's not all about results, but visiona and direction. yes, they failed, but i am BEHIND that program because i believe in what they're doing.

The problems the basketball team has are the same issues the football team deals with here and across the nation. We had a okay season , if not for one player the excitement for this season was pretty good. And sports is all about results.

OK first of all i didn't say the problems are unique to JMU. But 2 or 3 or 100 wrongs don't make it right. So everyone on this board needs to stop excusing the academic, behavioral, and legal issues of the prgram just because they happen elsewhere. They happened, they are negatives, they are now a pattern... so i do not and did not dismiss them.

second, i didnt say they were unique to basketball. obviously i know about the moreland/stallings issue with the football team among others. again, irrelevant to my point. if the pattern continues with the leadership currently in place i will have the same critique for football or any other sport.

finally... the results. yes, i know sports is all about results. im saying its easier to swallow disappointing results if the vision and direction is in place and the alum/fans believe greater results are to follow.

i give you football as the example. sure, they disappointed us with the Liberty loss, but no one on this board is as irritated with that program as basketball. we say to ourselves... "ok, 1st year QB, 1st year coach, new system, will bring in his first true recruiting class next year, energy, excitement, etc."... and we can deal with "the results".

Bessick and Cooke left because they were being selfish, more so Cooke then Bessick. Bessick was less of a project then Yo-Yo but yo-yo toughed it out.

It's great to want more , and to want the admin to say they want more also. But there is a reality we have to deal with when it comes to JMU basketball.

So what's the max i can want then? Because so far the only thing i am being told is to lower my expectations and that there is a good reason/excuse for each negative item and why its nobody's fault/happens everywhere, etc.

I dont want to lower my expectations. i dont think JMU will ever be on the level of the nations top programs, i am not stupid. but i am allowed to want more. and even with lowered expectations, they are still not meeting them. if ALL i settle for is consistent improvement and a well-managed, well-led program (which i believe is a fair expectation), and those expectations are still not being met, your answer is to want even less.

basically, i am being told to be happy with mediocre results (yay! we beat UR and Hoftstra except when it mattered) and accept the negatives (someone said just "one player"... its not just one player) cause they happen to other people too. jeez, i wish my employer was as understanding as JMU fans.

DDD:

If JMU basketball makes you this unhappy, I would suggest you stop watching it. Life is too short to get so torn up. Watch football and wait for a coach in basketball that you like.

Brady has changed direction 180 degrees the last 3 years. Recruiting a different player. Listen to the Yo Yo and McLean interviews. I met Kent in person. All are well spoken good young men with character and a good work ethic.

This thread was suppose to be a positive one and you have to come on her and piss on everything JMU basketball. Do you think you are making a difference? All you are doing is spewing negativity and clogging up this thread with your angry rants. Go to another thread were everyone is pissing on MBB and you can share your misery there. Geez, we can't have one positive thread on these boards. Nothing but miserable people sharing their misery.

(03-11-2015 09:27 PM)JMUNation Wrote: [ -> ]Geez, we can't have one positive thread on these boards. Nothing but miserable people sharing their misery.

This is the GD truth.

There are plenty of positive things on the boards... we track recruiting stories, celebrating weekly and yearly CAA honors, follow our Dukes in the Pros through their entire careers, some of them until they are indcuted into the NFL HOF, we respect our amazing women's program, we suggest MM statues and court naming after kenny Brooks, get excitied about upcoming games and seasons, drink the EW juice, etc etc etc.. plenty of positive chatter.

i responded with my comments to the suggestiion that i should celebrate what was a basketball season that did not meet expectations in many ways. i dont see my comments about expecting more than what we got as overly negative or critical. i just scoffed at the suggestion that we should "be happy" with what our MBB team did this year...

but look, if im just gonna be ripped apart for spewing negativity, then i will step aside. i am a lifelong Duke and bleed purple and always will. i think i was preaching a general philosophy of wanting more instead of being satisfied with poor results, but i can see how it would be seen as just complaining. all in all, it comes from a good place.

DDD,
l
I think the point is let's try to keep at least one thread happy and positive. The team have no control over what many of us (including myself) are pissed about so let's try to separate the two and have a thread to recognize the players for their performance/success given the limits placed on them. This MBB team fought hard for most of the year and really came together and played like a team, something I didn't see last year. I for one may not be happy with the direction of the program as a whole but I can recognize the progress and development of the players and I am very excited to watch this team on the court next year. I will absolutely be there rooting til I can't root no more!

(03-12-2015 09:41 AM)DukeDoggyDogg Wrote: [ -> ]There are plenty of positive things on the boards... we track recruiting stories, celebrating weekly and yearly CAA honors, follow our Dukes in the Pros through their entire careers, some of them until they are indcuted into the NFL HOF, we respect our amazing women's program, we suggest MM statues and court naming after kenny Brooks, get excitied about upcoming games and seasons, drink the EW juice, etc etc etc.. plenty of positive chatter.

i responded with my comments to the suggestiion that i should celebrate what was a basketball season that did not meet expectations in many ways. i dont see my comments about expecting more than what we got as overly negative or critical. i just scoffed at the suggestion that we should "be happy" with what our MBB team did this year...

but look, if im just gonna be ripped apart for spewing negativity, then i will step aside. i am a lifelong Duke and bleed purple and always will. i think i was preaching a general philosophy of wanting more instead of being satisfied with poor results, but i can see how it would be seen as just complaining. all in all, it comes from a good place.

Thats the thing MB and the team are not producing "poor" results. We are a average team progressing to be a title contender every year.