A buddy of mine (who's a Big Ten fan) was talking about the Big East tournament and he had, in my opinion, an excellent suggestion for the Big East basketball tournament. Then again, since I'm a fan of the only school that hasn't been to MSG, I'm biased. Anyway, here was his suggestion for how to get all 16 teams there without unduly punishing the top seeds:
Tuesday:
Game 1: 9th seed vs. 16th seed
Game 2: 10th seed vs. 15th seed
Game 3: 11th seed vs. 14th seed
Game 4: 12th seed vs. 13th seed
Wednesday:
Game 5: Game 1 winner vs. 8th seed
Game 6: Game 4 winner vs. 5th seed
Game 7: Game 3 winner vs. 6th seed
Game 8: Game 2 winner vs. 7th seed
Thursday:
Game 9: Game 5 winner vs. 1st seed
Game 10: Game 6 winner vs. 4th seed
Game 11: Game 7 winner vs. 3rd seed
Game 12: Game 8 winner vs. 2nd seed
Friday:
Game 13: Game 9 winner vs. Game 10 winner
Game 14: Game 11 winner vs. Game 12 winner
Saturday:
Championship game
The big advantages here would not only be every team playing in the conference championship but also providing winnable games for the lower seeds. For example, this year St. John's could very well be on the NIT bubble. They're 16-14 heading into the tournament and are staring down the barrel of a loss to Marquette in the first round. At 16-15 they're going to be waiting to hear from the NIT. However, a first round game vs. USF that they'd likely win would put them at 17 wins, which could indeed help get them over the hump...
USFFan
usffan Wrote:A buddy of mine (who's a Big Ten fan) was talking about the Big East tournament and he had, in my opinion, an excellent suggestion for the Big East basketball tournament. Then again, since I'm a fan of the only school that hasn't been to MSG, I'm biased. Anyway, here was his suggestion for how to get all 16 teams there without unduly punishing the top seeds:
Tuesday:
Game 1: 9th seed vs. 16th seed
Game 2: 10th seed vs. 15th seed
Game 3: 11th seed vs. 14th seed
Game 4: 12th seed vs. 13th seed
Wednesday:
Game 5: Game 1 winner vs. 8th seed
Game 6: Game 4 winner vs. 5th seed
Game 7: Game 3 winner vs. 6th seed
Game 8: Game 2 winner vs. 7th seed
Thursday:
Game 9: Game 5 winner vs. 1st seed
Game 10: Game 6 winner vs. 4th seed
Game 11: Game 7 winner vs. 3rd seed
Game 12: Game 8 winner vs. 2nd seed
Friday:
Game 13: Game 9 winner vs. Game 10 winner
Game 14: Game 11 winner vs. Game 12 winner
Saturday:
Championship game
The big advantages here would not only be every team playing in the conference championship but also providing winnable games for the lower seeds. For example, this year St. John's could very well be on the NIT bubble. They're 16-14 heading into the tournament and are staring down the barrel of a loss to Marquette in the first round. At 16-15 they're going to be waiting to hear from the NIT. However, a first round game vs. USF that they'd likely win would put them at 17 wins, which could indeed help get them over the hump...
USFFan
Not a bad plan, but the reason that the BE tourney is only spread over 4 days is because the league did not want to stretch it out any longer than it is and to avoid having a team play so many games just before the NCAA's.
I like that plan. I think it is the most fair. And more basketball is better.
I would make one change. The first day games have to be moved around for consistency in time of play. I like the plan. This gives the 5th through 8th seeds one bye and the 1st through 4th seeds two byes. Let's be honest. Does anyone really want the 9th through 16th seeds to win the Big East Tournament? If they do then they deserve every reward they get.
TUESDAY
Game 1: 9th seed vs. 16th seed
Game 2: 12th seed vs. 13th seed
Game 3: 11th seed vs. 14th seed
Game 4: 10th seed vs. 15th seed
WEDNESDAY
Game 5: Game 1 winner (9/16) vs. 8th seed
Game 6: Game 2 winner (12/13) vs. 5th seed
Game 7: Game 3 winner (11/14) vs. 6th seed
Game 8: Game 4 winner (10/15) vs. 7th seed
THURSDAY
Game 9: Game 5 winner (8/9/16) vs. 1st seed
Game 10: Game 6 winner (5/12/13) vs. 4th seed
Game 11: Game 7 winner (6/11/14) vs. 3rd seed
Game 12: Game 8 winner (7/10/15) vs. 2nd seed
FRIDAY
Game 13: Game 9 winner vs. Game 10 winner
Game 14: Game 11 winner vs. Game 12 winner
SATURDAY
Championship Game
The only difference between this plan and what we have now is that the 9th through 12th seeds would have to play a day earlier. The 1st through 8th seeds are not affected at all. I have no problem inconveniencing the four lowest seeds if it leads to a better Big East Tournament. This would also make expansion to 18 teams easier as only two would stay at home.
How about the bottom 4 teams just win more games and qualify for the tourney?
fsquid Wrote:How about the bottom 4 teams just win more games and qualify for the tourney?
Someone has to be the bottom 4.
That's too many games in too many days. As it is teams get too worn out. Look at Syracuse as a prime example. They won the tournament two years in a row, playing 4 games in 4 days and were so worn out they got knocked out in the 1st round of the NCAA's. It's too much, with 16 teams, you can't have every team play. Besided, is St. John's is worthy of the NIT they should be able to beat a team in the 1st round of the BE Tourney.
St. John's winning a 1st round game in a 16 win tourney means they have a decent shot at losing the next round. 16-14 vs. 17-15 isn't much of a difference.
The tournament should stay as it is, or if they can find a way to schedule the first round of the tournament to be played on campus sites the final weekend of the regular season. If the concern is playing too many consecutive days, play that first round the final weekend, then 12 teams still go to the Garden.
For the other eight teams waiting for opponents that weekend, maybe do some sort of Big East wildcard weekend where the eight teams would play each other maybe in some sort of 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8 type of thing, depending on the teams and if they've already played a round robin.
I don't know, its a thought, but 16 teams is unwieldy enough. For a comparison, the A-10 has 14 teams and two teams do not make the conference tourney in their current setup.
mattsarz Wrote:St. John's winning a 1st round game in a 16 win tourney means they have a decent shot at losing the next round. 16-14 vs. 17-15 isn't much of a difference.
The tournament should stay as it is, or if they can find a way to schedule the first round of the tournament to be played on campus sites the final weekend of the regular season. If the concern is playing too many consecutive days, play that first round the final weekend, then 12 teams still go to the Garden.
For the other eight teams waiting for opponents that weekend, maybe do some sort of Big East wildcard weekend where the eight teams would play each other maybe in some sort of 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8 type of thing, depending on the teams and if they've already played a round robin.
I don't know, its a thought, but 16 teams is unwieldy enough. For a comparison, the A-10 has 14 teams and two teams do not make the conference tourney in their current setup.
2 teams didn't go to the tourney in the final days of C-USA.
mattsarz Wrote:St. John's winning a 1st round game in a 16 win tourney means they have a decent shot at losing the next round. 16-14 vs. 17-15 isn't much of a difference.
The tournament should stay as it is, or if they can find a way to schedule the first round of the tournament to be played on campus sites the final weekend of the regular season. If the concern is playing too many consecutive days, play that first round the final weekend, then 12 teams still go to the Garden.
For the other eight teams waiting for opponents that weekend, maybe do some sort of Big East wildcard weekend where the eight teams would play each other maybe in some sort of 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8 type of thing, depending on the teams and if they've already played a round robin.
I don't know, its a thought, but 16 teams is unwieldy enough. For a comparison, the A-10 has 14 teams and two teams do not make the conference tourney in their current setup.
I legitimately really like that idea.. of having the bottom 8 teams have to play on the sunday night before conference tourney week, to fight for a spot in the tourney.. and then seeding is based on record, soo if somehow Rutgers UC, or USF would have pulled off a win they would have been the 12 seed this year.. I really like tha idea..
Just have the BE season finish on Sat and on Monday, have the 9-16 place teams play on campus sites. Winners advance to Wednesday's round.
fsquid Wrote:Just have the BE season finish on Sat and on Monday, have the 9-16 place teams play on campus sites. Winners advance to Wednesday's round.
Its a good idea.. I will agree..
Orange Eagles Wrote:That's too many games in too many days. As it is teams get too worn out. Look at Syracuse as a prime example. They won the tournament two years in a row, playing 4 games in 4 days and were so worn out they got knocked out in the 1st round of the NCAA's. It's too much, with 16 teams, you can't have every team play. Besided, is St. John's is worthy of the NIT they should be able to beat a team in the 1st round of the BE Tourney.
You are not paying attention. Nothing would change for the top eight seeds if this plan was adopted. Their schedule would remain the same. Only the bottom eight seeds would be playing an extra day.
No one should care if the bottom eight seeds get worn out. No one should want the bottom eight seeds to win the Big East Tournament. You should want the top eight seeds to have all the advantages.
Ahhhorsepoo Wrote:I legitimately really like that idea.. of having the bottom 8 teams have to play on the sunday night before conference tourney week, to fight for a spot in the tourney.. and then seeding is based on record, soo if somehow Rutgers UC, or USF would have pulled off a win they would have been the 12 seed this year.. I really like tha idea..
This is not fantasy football or a role playing game. College conference tournaments have to be drawn up and laid out well in advance. Tickets have to be sold to fans and TV timeslots have to be set up.
The initial proposal, with my adjustments, would work perfectly fine. It is logical and conventional. The top eight seeds would not be affected and those are the teams who have the best chance to win it.
I am understanding, because last year Syracuse was a 9 seed and they ended up winning the tournament (For the record, Villanova is a 9 seed this year and I think they have one of the best shots at winning the tournament). Under your plan, you're saying that Syracuse would have had to play an extra day, which would have probably kept them from winning the tournament last year. The bottom 4 teams don't deserve to be in the tournament because they're no good. If they played better, then they can play at MSG.
Your plan still hurts the better teams. Think of it as incentive. St. John's hasn't been in the tournament for a few years and finally got back and they are located in NYC! It's a big deal to play in the Big East Tourney.
Here's the other main inconvenience for putting the tournament at MSG for five days: You are tossing out the Rangers and Knicks both for almost an entire week. These two teams already get tossed out for an extended period of time every year, in late March-early April for a two week period for the circus.
If you do a first round for the 9-16 seeds, it has to be something on campus.
I think the article by Katz makes a good point by saying the bottom four teams are the only teams in D-I basketball that have virtually no chance to be in the tourney. Every other conference has an auto-bid that any team can win, technically. No matter how small the chance every team should be able to play for a bid, no matter how small their chances are. I don't expect Cincy to be in the bottom four for a long time after this season but I still believe that every team should have a chance. I think that one proposed plan would fit well. Anyone have a link to that article?
Orange Eagles Wrote:I am understanding, because last year Syracuse was a 9 seed and they ended up winning the tournament (For the record, Villanova is a 9 seed this year and I think they have one of the best shots at winning the tournament). Under your plan, you're saying that Syracuse would have had to play an extra day, which would have probably kept them from winning the tournament last year. The bottom 4 teams don't deserve to be in the tournament because they're no good. If they played better, then they can play at MSG.
Your plan still hurts the better teams. Think of it as incentive. St. John's hasn't been in the tournament for a few years and finally got back and they are located in NYC! It's a big deal to play in the Big East Tourney.
You are thinking about it from the selfish standpoint of how one particular team might be affected. Step back from Syracuse for a moment. Do not even think about Villanova or this year's standings. Try to think about it like a neutral observer.
The top eight teams, and especially the top four teams, are the ones who played the best throughout the regular season and earned the extra rest (byes). It is a very rare occurance for any ninth seeded team to win the Big East Tournament.
When conference tournaments are set up, one point is to favor the top seeds, that is the reward for their regular season performance. The coaches are almost all on record as wanting a 16 team tournament so someone will have to suffer.
mattsarz Wrote:Here's the other main inconvenience for putting the tournament at MSG for five days: You are tossing out the Rangers and Knicks both for almost an entire week. These two teams already get tossed out for an extended period of time every year, in late March-early April for a two week period for the circus.
If you do a first round for the 9-16 seeds, it has to be something on campus.
No on-campus stuff. This is the Big East, not the Patriot League, or any other conference that can't afford the glitz and glamour of the World's Most Famous Arena. One attraction of league tournaments is putting everyone together on one stage.
If the extra day at Madison Square Garden is a problem, the first round can be played in Brooklyn, which will be the new home for the Nets in a few years. The first round winners then get to move on to the big stage with the big boys at MSG.
The tournament will not be expanded next year. By the time anything happens, the Brooklyn arena will be complete. Doing it this way would keep everything in New York City where it belongs. But on-campus games are a definite non-starter.