http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/...om_un.html
Pres. Watts is probably looking squarely at the dollars and cents of today. So just a little bit of back-of-napkin math.
$12,631,732 Direct School Support
-$6,161,702 Scholarships
------------
$6,470,030 in cash that UAB can't print on its own.
A lot of the money turned down has been promises for further facilities. UAB athletics will generate more money in ticket sales with a bit of commitment from the administration to Coach Clark and his staff.
But in the short term: 1. How would you tell Pres. Watts that he loses $6 million by trying to save $6 million? 2. Can the public (city and businesses) cover that in the short term for at least few years?
The city government is cash strapped. I don't know that businesses can raise that kind of money, not annually.
It really comes down to making an investment in a stadium and in Coach Clark. If we do, we'll be filling that stadium and our cash flow gets better. I just don't know that its going to happen.
I think it will be an up or down decision. If others' contribution was gonna be considered there would have been some discussion towards that. That would actually be a "saving face" scenario for Watts and the BOT - basically put the ball in the court of the city and contributors. But, that would simply continue the uncertainty and the sword of Damocles would continue to hover. Only an OCS will remove it...
(11-30-2014 10:31 AM)GreenMississippi Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/...om_un.html
Pres. Watts is probably looking squarely at the dollars and cents of today. So just a little bit of back-of-napkin math.
$12,631,732 Direct School Support
-$6,161,702 Scholarships
------------
$6,470,030 in cash that UAB can't print on its own.
A lot of the money turned down has been promises for further facilities. UAB athletics will generate more money in ticket sales with a bit of commitment from the administration to Coach Clark and his staff.
But in the short term: 1. How would you tell Pres. Watts that he loses $6 million by trying to save $6 million? 2. Can the public (city and businesses) cover that in the short term for at least few years?
Additional Thoughts:
1,000 undergraduate students = $10,000,000 in Tuition
If we lose UAB Football, it will begin the death of UAB's undergraduate program. The cost of athletics will pale in comparison to the costs of UAB Athletics.
The public and media are so blind to the real agenda. UA has nearly $1 billion in debt, and they need undergraduate growth to sustain itself. In a state that is not growing college bound people fast enough, UAB has thousands of undergrads just waiting to be snatched now and into the future. Remember, UA's out of state enrollment is nearly 60%.
What worries me is that $6,000,000+ is a per year figure. An indoor practice facility is a one time expense. Can the foundation and other entities fund both? Watts could say to the foundation...sure...we'll take your money, but that money has to go to that $6,000,000 number rather than new facilitie or a coach's salary. But how to you continually raise 6,000,000 year after year? And that number will continue to rise. If their expectation is for us to break even or even close to even, we're toast.
A second point I'll make is about Mackin. One of the main reasons he was originally hired was to get the athletic department finances in order through fundraising and other measures. As a former student athlete when he was hired, that was how he was presented to us. If they disband the program because of finances, Mackin needs to be fired if for no other reason (there are many), for the fact that he failed the athletic department in this area.
(11-30-2014 11:05 AM)Taylor Blazer Wrote: [ -> ] (11-30-2014 10:31 AM)GreenMississippi Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/...om_un.html
Pres. Watts is probably looking squarely at the dollars and cents of today. So just a little bit of back-of-napkin math.
$12,631,732 Direct School Support
-$6,161,702 Scholarships
------------
$6,470,030 in cash that UAB can't print on its own.
A lot of the money turned down has been promises for further facilities. UAB athletics will generate more money in ticket sales with a bit of commitment from the administration to Coach Clark and his staff.
But in the short term: 1. How would you tell Pres. Watts that he loses $6 million by trying to save $6 million? 2. Can the public (city and businesses) cover that in the short term for at least few years?
Additional Thoughts:
1,000 undergraduate students = $10,000,000 in Tuition
If we lose UAB Football, it will begin the death of UAB's undergraduate program. The cost of athletics will pale in comparison to the costs of UAB Athletics.
The public and media are so blind to the real agenda. UA has nearly $1 billion in debt, and they need undergraduate growth to sustain itself. In a state that is not growing college bound people fast enough, UAB has thousands of undergrads just waiting to be snatched now and into the future. Remember, UA's out of state enrollment is nearly 60%.
Serious question...How does disbanding football lead to the death of the undergraduate programs? It's not like many regular students choose UAB because it has a football team judging by the percentage of students that actually go to games.
(11-30-2014 11:05 AM)Taylor Blazer Wrote: [ -> ]1,000 undergraduate students = $10,000,000 in Tuition
If we lose UAB Football, it will begin the death of UAB's undergraduate program. The cost of athletics will pale in comparison to the costs of UAB Athletics.
The public and media are so blind to the real agenda. UA has nearly $1 billion in debt, and they need undergraduate growth to sustain itself. In a state that is not growing college bound people fast enough, UAB has thousands of undergrads just waiting to be snatched now and into the future. Remember, UA's out of state enrollment is nearly 60%.
This has to be part of any argument about the fiscal relevance of UAB Football and UAB Athletics. I'm one of those students (granted, a scholarship student) that might have gone to another option if UAB was a less-complete university.
The city and local businesses see the potential financial losses here. It will be more than $6 million/year to the city with UAB Athletics and Undergrad de-emphasis. I love the vocal and media support, but the plans for support need to be on paper and public if the shaming is going to go national.
(11-30-2014 11:15 AM)blazerman2006 Wrote: [ -> ]What worries me is that $6,000,000+ is a per year figure. An indoor practice facility is a one time expense. Can the foundation and other entities fund both? Watts could say to the foundation...sure...we'll take your money, but that money has to go to that $6,000,000 number rather than new facilitie or a coach's salary. But how to you continually raise 6,000,000 year after year? And that number will continue to rise. If their expectation is for us to break even or even close to even, we're toast.
A second point I'll make is about Mackin. One of the main reasons he was originally hired was to get the athletic department finances in order through fundraising and other measures. As a former student athlete when he was hired, that was how he was presented to us. If they disband the program because of finances, Mackin needs to be fired if for no other reason (there are many), for the fact that he failed the athletic department in this area.
Please don't fall into this trap. Nearly 75% of universities subsidize their athletic programs. Of the 75%, UAB is in the middle of the pack. Why do universities incur the subsidies? It is marketing because what they lose on the athletic department's balance sheet, they gain on the overall universities' balance sheet. Having a robust athletic department adds to the comprehensive college experience. With higher ed having to compete with on-line competitors, athletics is seen as an asset to recruit students. Only 1 FBS school has dropped football in 19 years, yet schools like ODU, USA and Charlotte have added it.
If the BOT cared about our financial situation, we would play UA in football each year for the same compensation USM got paid.
(11-30-2014 11:18 AM)blazerman2006 Wrote: [ -> ]Serious question...How does disbanding football lead to the death of the undergraduate programs? It's not like many regular students choose UAB because it has a football team judging by the percentage of students that actually go to games.
Money is already being drained out of undergraduate programs for diversion to the medical school. As in any large organization, not every dime is spent every year and it's usually held back by the various departments for contingencies. Apparently Ray Watts has vacuumed up all of this cash for his own discretionary fund, to divert to the SOM. And there are many other signs of pending re-alignment: the inexcusable shenanigans regarding the Honors College, the demand that the huge Collat donation go for "health-related" business fields, the lack of long- or even mid-term direction for non-medical programs. The "no schedule past 2016, no contract past 2016" seen in football has its DIRECT corrolaries all across the west (non-medical) end of campus.
The loss of football by itself would not directly destroy the undergraduate side, no. But it's not happening by itself. Removing football also removes a commitment to a fully-rounded University, one with a full range of undergraduate programs.
The signs are very strong that, as Taylor notes, a plan could be afoot to rescue the stunning, possibly criminal mis-management of the Tuscaloosa campus' badly-planned growth by diverting UAB undergrads there. This would be accomplished by dismantling the undergrad side of UAB.
Football is the canary in this dark and dreary coal mine. If it dies, the miners are next.
(11-30-2014 11:18 AM)blazerman2006 Wrote: [ -> ]Serious question...How does disbanding football lead to the death of the undergraduate programs? It's not like many regular students choose UAB because it has a football team judging by the percentage of students that actually go to games.
1. The athletic program in general takes a hit. We'll lose several women's athletics programs and marching band.
2. Athletics is national UAB advertising. Awareness of UAB decreases without UAB athletics. I see UAB's name in athletics more than academics, and I'm an academic!
An aside: Only time I've heard about UAB academics this month... maybe last couple of months... from a non-UAB source was about the Neonatal O2 Study. Ouch...
3. Bystander effect. The active and supportive students and alumni, the ones who support athletics, start to disappear. Other students who might not be directly connected to UAB athletics don't sense the energy anymore and gravitate elsewhere. UAB is seen as a transient experience.
(11-30-2014 11:26 AM)Taylor Blazer Wrote: [ -> ] (11-30-2014 11:15 AM)blazerman2006 Wrote: [ -> ]What worries me is that $6,000,000+ is a per year figure. An indoor practice facility is a one time expense. Can the foundation and other entities fund both? Watts could say to the foundation...sure...we'll take your money, but that money has to go to that $6,000,000 number rather than new facilitie or a coach's salary. But how to you continually raise 6,000,000 year after year? And that number will continue to rise. If their expectation is for us to break even or even close to even, we're toast.
A second point I'll make is about Mackin. One of the main reasons he was originally hired was to get the athletic department finances in order through fundraising and other measures. As a former student athlete when he was hired, that was how he was presented to us. If they disband the program because of finances, Mackin needs to be fired if for no other reason (there are many), for the fact that he failed the athletic department in this area.
Please don't fall into this trap. Nearly 75% of universities subsidize their athletic programs. Of the 75%, UAB is in the middle of the pack. Why do universities incur the subsidies? It is marketing because what they lose on the athletic department's balance sheet, they gain on the overall universities' balance sheet. Having a robust athletic department adds to the comprehensive college experience. With higher ed having to compete with on-line competitors, athletics is seen as an asset to recruit students. Only 1 FBS school has dropped football in 19 years, yet schools like ODU, USA and Charlotte have added it.
If the BOT cared about our financial situation, we would play UA in football each year for the same compensation USM got paid.
I'm not falling into this trap at all. I agree on all points. I'm just concerned that Watts and the BOT are obviously going to be unreasonable when they look at the situation and are just going to blankly say, if you guys can't help us break even, football is done. And that's how they will defend the decision, regardless of the facts you mentioned above.
(11-30-2014 11:28 AM)58-56 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-30-2014 11:18 AM)blazerman2006 Wrote: [ -> ]Serious question...How does disbanding football lead to the death of the undergraduate programs? It's not like many regular students choose UAB because it has a football team judging by the percentage of students that actually go to games.
Money is already being drained out of undergraduate programs for diversion to the medical school. As in any large organization, not every dime is spent every year and it's usually held back by the various departments for contingencies. Apparently Ray Watts has vacuumed up all of this cash for his own discretionary fund, to divert to the SOM. And there are many other signs of pending re-alignment: the inexcusable shenanigans regarding the Honors College, the demand that the huge Collat donation go for "health-related" business fields, the lack of long- or even mid-term direction for non-medical programs. The "no schedule past 2016, no contract past 2016" seen in football has its DIRECT corrolaries all across the west (non-medical) end of campus.
The loss of football by itself would not directly destroy the undergraduate side, no. But it's not happening by itself. Removing football also removes a commitment to a fully-rounded University, one with a full range of undergraduate programs.
The signs are very strong that, as Taylor notes, a plan could be afoot to rescue the stunning, possibly criminal mis-management of the Tuscaloosa campus' badly-planned growth by diverting UAB undergrads there. This would be accomplished by dismantling the undergrad side of UAB.
Football is the canary in this dark and dreary coal mine. If it dies, the miners are next.
That's my biggest concern in all of this...is that my undergraduate degree will be worthless with how they're running the undergraduate side of campus into the ground.
(11-30-2014 11:31 AM)GreenMississippi Wrote: [ -> ] (11-30-2014 11:18 AM)blazerman2006 Wrote: [ -> ]Serious question...How does disbanding football lead to the death of the undergraduate programs? It's not like many regular students choose UAB because it has a football team judging by the percentage of students that actually go to games.
1. The athletic program in general takes a hit. We'll lose several women's athletics programs and marching band.
2. Athletics is national UAB advertising. Awareness of UAB decreases without UAB athletics. I see UAB's name in athletics more than academics, and I'm an academic!
An aside: Only time I've heard about UAB academics this month... maybe last couple of months... from a non-UAB source was about the Neonatal O2 Study. Ouch...
3. Bystander effect. The active and supportive students and alumni, the ones who support athletics, start to disappear. Other students who might not be directly connected to UAB athletics don't sense the energy anymore and gravitate elsewhere. UAB is seen as a transient experience.
Makes sense. Thank you.
What is the real dollar cost of football ?
Coaches salaries
Administration staff
Office rent & utilities
Travel to away games
Travel to home games
Uniforms
Books
Food
-------
The university absorbable costs. - I.e. - UAB pays itself
Tuition
Dormitory space
,
I wonder if they're figuring the opportunity costs of the decision. 6 mil a year may be a drop in the bucket compared to the costs of not supporting the program.
One thing to mention on money is that CUSA will put 6 football teams into bowl games this year; we get a cut from all 6. Soon as the football team is gone, we are out of CUSA and that money source goes away.
(11-30-2014 01:10 PM)Doktyr X Wrote: [ -> ]One thing to mention on money is that CUSA will put 6 football teams into bowl games this year; we get a cut from all 6. Soon as the football team is gone, we are out of CUSA and that money source goes away.
I assume that ticket sales and conference revenue is figured into the budget.
(11-30-2014 01:14 PM)GreenMississippi Wrote: [ -> ] (11-30-2014 01:10 PM)Doktyr X Wrote: [ -> ]One thing to mention on money is that CUSA will put 6 football teams into bowl games this year; we get a cut from all 6. Soon as the football team is gone, we are out of CUSA and that money source goes away.
I assume that ticket sales and conference revenue is figured into the budget.
I seem to recall from the last round of realignment that the monies are paid in the future so the included conference revenue for a particular year is known - it is money from years past. I also seem to recall that when a team leaves it forfeits all future monies. So, if true, UAB would be leaving millions behind...
I would like to understand the long term goal. I buy season tickets and make scholarship donations. If we shut down football, what else happens. Do we reduce 85 scholarships from the women's programs? Do we remove marching bands, cheerleaders and Golden Girls? If football is not important , why do both Alabama and Auburn record huge enrollment increases after playing for National Championships. Should we use the same money to further sorority and fraternity activity on campus? Most could not tell you the national ranking of their law school, business school or nursing school but do know that their football team is in the top 25 or their basketball team made the NCAA tournament? If the logic follows that the football program is not profitable therefore shut it down, is it also logical to close the UAT nursing school, or any UAT medical classes? If someone has a direction for UAB Athletics please let me know. What do you think we should accomplish. Why do Jax St. , Troy, USA , Charlotte, ODU and others star or consider D1 programs?
The whole idea that athletics must be self sustaining is ludicrous. It's a red herring, a straw-man propped up to attack UAB athletics. Very few schools make a profit on athletics if you go by the balance sheet. Colleges have athletic programs for many reasons, but chief among them is that it is through the competition of athletics that students forge strong allegiances to their schools. You see Mo Finley drain a jump shot to defeat a national power in Kentucky and it makes you proud to be a Blazer. You see our softball team make it to the super regionals and it makes you proud to be a Blazer. You watch Leron Little have his one shining moment and make a diving TD catch en route to the football team defeating LSU and it makes you proud to be a blazer. This shared identity is what leads us to support our school. It is what leads us to have a prideful hope that one day our children might follow us there and make a great institution even greater.
What is under attack is not football, it is our shared Blazer identity, our shared pride in a history that says "From humble beginnings can come great things." The excuse our attackers give is "It doesn't make money!" to which I respond "So what?" Does the new steam plant make money? Does the the school of education? Does the Honor's program make money? (Bad example maybe, because rumor has it that the Honor's program is next to go if the BoT has their way, after all, night schools and extension campuses do not need an honors program.)
Does UAB athletics have a responsibility to do all it can to operate as efficiently as possible so that it can generate as much value UAB as is feasible? Sure it does. But no one should dare concede the position that UAB athletics needs to be "profitable" in order to deserve to survive. To do so is to discredit to the blood, sweat and tears of Gene Bartow and every coach, player and administrator that given their all to UAB since Gene started the program.