Is it the fear of becoming irrelevant? No money to be made? Seriously, the P-5 is doing everything possible to distant themselves from the G-5 and we seem to hang on to them like desperate hookers to pimps.
My thought process is this, form our own division. Those programs that fear joining this division would prevent access to a P-5 conference could go independent. This division should form their own governing body as well. We say networks are looking to fill TV time with college sports so what would be the issue?
Teams that play in the FCS seems to be proud of the their championships. What is there to be embarrass about?
I don't think the G5 should form its' own division. Basketball has their NCAA Tournament and the NIT. How about football's version of the NIT.
(11-04-2014 12:24 AM)Sirloin Burger Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think the G5 should form its' own division. Basketball has their NCAA Tournament and the NIT. How about footballs version of the NIT.
That would be viewed as some consolation prize. The FCS Champions are viewed as champions, not runner up to the FBS Champion. So no, some NIT version would not work. Again, programs that would not want to be a part of this division could go beg the P-5 for admittance or go independent.
The Football NIT would be a better option as both P5 and G5 opponents could participate. Just like Basketball's version. We don't need separation.
Besides, who wouldn't view a G5 Championship as a consolation?
I've been saying this for years.
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(11-04-2014 12:36 AM)Sirloin Burger Wrote: [ -> ]The Football NIT would be a better option as both P5 and G5 opponents could participate. Just like Basketball's version. We don't need separation.
Besides, who wouldn't view a G5 Championship as a consolation?
The problem is that we're being squeezed out of the NIT now, as well. The NIT is no longer a consolation prize for the teams that didn't make it. It's become the tournament where the NCAA can send the big name schools that they simply couldn't justify sending over some of the smaller schools that made an un-arguable (not really a word, I think, but I'm using it anyway) case for the NCAA tournament. These days, the only tournaments that take us seriously are the CIT and CBI, and unfortunately the rest of the basketball world doesn't take them seriously...
(11-04-2014 12:28 AM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-04-2014 12:24 AM)Sirloin Burger Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think the G5 should form its' own division. Basketball has their NCAA Tournament and the NIT. How about footballs version of the NIT.
That would be viewed as some consolation prize. The FCS Champions are viewed as champions, not runner up to the FBS Champion. So no, some NIT version would not work. Again, programs that would not want to be a part of this division could go beg the P-5 for admittance or go independent.
Hardly anyone knows who the fcs champion is. Hardly any one cares, ask the average fan and they have no idea who it is or was or who is number 1 or 2 ranked (even with as dominant as ndsu has been). I dont want to go back to the FCS. Or a new version. I would rather play bowls on espn and feel like we are a part of major college football. Just my .02.
(11-04-2014 01:38 AM)goherd24herdfans Wrote: [ -> ] (11-04-2014 12:28 AM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-04-2014 12:24 AM)Sirloin Burger Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think the G5 should form its' own division. Basketball has their NCAA Tournament and the NIT. How about footballs version of the NIT.
That would be viewed as some consolation prize. The FCS Champions are viewed as champions, not runner up to the FBS Champion. So no, some NIT version would not work. Again, programs that would not want to be a part of this division could go beg the P-5 for admittance or go independent.
Hardly anyone knows who the fcs champion is. Hardly any one cares, ask the average fan and they have no idea who it is or was or who is number 1 or 2 ranked (even with as dominant as ndsu has been). I dont want to go back to the FCS. Or a new version. I would rather play bowls on espn and feel like we are a part of major college football. Just my .02.
Me too. FCS football is completely irrelevant to 90% of the football fans in America.
I'm going to argue for an idea that AttackCoog first espoused quite some time ago. I think it makes the most sense, and is a step between the extremes of irrelevance playing in the P5 arena and irrelevance in a split apart FBS.
Our highest ranked champion will play in the Access Bowl. Start with that premise. And then identify two bowls (which could rotate for fan-friendliness concerns) who host our other "displaced" Conference champions (using the vernacular of the Football Championship Selection committee rules) in well televised Showdowns.
#2 vs. #5 in the Independence Bowl, as an example
#3 vs. #4 in the Heart of Dallas Bowl, as an example.
I think these 3 games would generate some serious interest in the G5 conference champions and be far superior to some of the match ups that will come out of the normal bowl selection. Relevant games, bragging rights, and better tv exposure and money might result. I would not take this any further by having the winners play out the sequence.
Few thoughts:
1. The Group of 5, with a couple exception are better off than ever. People keep looking at distance and forgot how it used to be. In the pre-BCS days, most these teams (outside the left-over Southwestern Conference teams) stood almost no chance of a good bowl. The BCS changed that and teams like Boise State got a chance in a big bowl (and in a one off game anything can happen). That spot was not guaranteed every year though. Now it is in the CFP. It should also be noted the 85 scholarship rule and general parity have helped some to. It's doubtful we get many G5 competing for national championships, but that's the nature of the beast when you have an open system with almost 130 teams.
2. All that said, it wouldn't be a horrible idea, but it will not happen because there would be far less attention. The vast majority of schools who could choose FBS or FCS have chosen the former even knowing they likely will never compete at the national level. This is because it's a lot better for spreading their schools name (worth a ton of advertising dollars) and probably overall profit.
because you end up with about as many fans as 1aa.
I think it would be great for a lot of the G5's to leave and do their own thing. As long as there's a provision for Independents to play alongside the P5 I'd be thrilled with that.
The vast majority of g5 schools will only play in an annual nobody watches bowl. In the fcs while no one is watching at least the fans and players are having a great experience in the playoffs, playing for the honor of being the best in the nation at that level.
If the g5 split to form its own playoffs with the amount and quality of teams involved and the number of networks desiring cfb content the games would be televised and people would watch making it profitable and exciting.
Imo the sole purpose of a 4 team playoff is to insure that g5 schools never get to compete. Even if it went to 8 a g5 will never get in over a p5 school. Its design is for exclusion.
(11-04-2014 08:35 AM)ohio1317 Wrote: [ -> ]Few thoughts:
1. The Group of 5, with a couple exception are better off than ever. People keep looking at distance and forgot how it used to be. In the pre-BCS days, most these teams (outside the left-over Southwestern Conference teams) stood almost no chance of a good bowl. The BCS changed that and teams like Boise State got a chance in a big bowl (and in a one off game anything can happen). That spot was not guaranteed every year though. Now it is in the CFP. It should also be noted the 85 scholarship rule and general parity have helped some to. It's doubtful we get many G5 competing for national championships, but that's the nature of the beast when you have an open system with almost 130 teams.
2. All that said, it wouldn't be a horrible idea, but it will not happen because there would be far less attention. The vast majority of schools who could choose FBS or FCS have chosen the former even knowing they likely will never compete at the national level. This is because it's a lot better for spreading their schools name (worth a ton of advertising dollars) and probably overall profit.
Maybe some people aren't old enough to experience when the WAC only had the Holiday bowl vs a 6-6 Power team as the highest prize. The G5 have it even better than the BCS with the auto-bid for the highest champ to go to a Major bowl. Go back 10 years and nobody would have thought there would be such a bid for the second five conferences, yet alone a playoff for FBS. What this auto-bid opportunity gives is for a conference to show itself has the pseudo-6th conference
Now as far as the G5 playoff, no, not when there is a auto-bid to a major bowl and still have access to the playoff. That is not to say that it wouldn't be successful, but if people want a G5 type playoff, their school can drop to FCS and participate in the playoff there. A few G5 school would help beef up the FCS. Maybe I pay attention, more as a football fan but I do know who won a few FCS championships in past years besides NDSU.
With the upcoming changes to D1, there is going to be some movement not only in schools but fans also. Fans who don't like how the FBS level is becoming more professionalize may find FCS football more to their liking as actual college football. We shall see.
(11-04-2014 09:03 AM)MWC Tex Wrote: [ -> ] (11-04-2014 08:35 AM)ohio1317 Wrote: [ -> ]Few thoughts:
1. The Group of 5, with a couple exception are better off than ever. People keep looking at distance and forgot how it used to be. In the pre-BCS days, most these teams (outside the left-over Southwestern Conference teams) stood almost no chance of a good bowl. The BCS changed that and teams like Boise State got a chance in a big bowl (and in a one off game anything can happen). That spot was not guaranteed every year though. Now it is in the CFP. It should also be noted the 85 scholarship rule and general parity have helped some to. It's doubtful we get many G5 competing for national championships, but that's the nature of the beast when you have an open system with almost 130 teams.
2. All that said, it wouldn't be a horrible idea, but it will not happen because there would be far less attention. The vast majority of schools who could choose FBS or FCS have chosen the former even knowing they likely will never compete at the national level. This is because it's a lot better for spreading their schools name (worth a ton of advertising dollars) and probably overall profit.
Maybe some people aren't old enough to experience when the WAC only had the Holiday bowl vs a 6-6 Power team as the highest prize. The G5 have it even better than the BCS with the auto-bid for the highest champ to go to a Major bowl. Go back 10 years and nobody would have thought there would be such a bid for the second five conferences, yet alone a playoff for FBS. What this auto-bid opportunity gives is for a conference to show itself has the pseudo-6th conference
Now as far as the G5 playoff, no, not when there is a auto-bid to a major bowl and still have access to the playoff. That is not to say that it wouldn't be successful, but if people want a G5 type playoff, their school can drop to FCS and participate in the playoff there. A few G5 school would help beef up the FCS. Maybe I pay attention, more as a football fan but I do know who won a few FCS championships in past years besides NDSU.
With the upcoming changes to D1, there is going to be some movement not only in schools but fans also. Fans who don't like how the FBS level is becoming more professionalize may find FCS football more to their liking as actual college football. We shall see.
Way too much money for the G5 schools to walk away from...they are for the most part making more money then ever...look at the schools at the FCS Level that scambled to move up...
Why do people think the money that the G-5 makes now couldn't be made if they separated? I am amazed to see so many of you cling to the P5 balls like it's life or death. It's like the thought is, "Hey you should be happy to be getting this chump change, you could be an orphan".
A division of G-5 could be very viable, a level between the FBS and FCS. I think many of you are being very shortsighted about this but hey that just my opinion. There are programs that will simply never be at the level of P-5 and quite frankly college football is college football and can be enjoyed at all levels. You have to be naive to think the G-5 would somehow become irrelevant without being attached to the P-5. That is simply not true.
Who would watch a G5 tournament outside of G5 fans and alumni? There would be no neutral interest in such a tournament.
OT: I'm surprised that G5 schools haven't realized that playing a brutal non-conference schedule often does more harm than good. What hurts the perception of the conference is when the P5 leagues have a series of 2-1 and 3-0 teams while the G5 leagues are filled with 1-3 and 0-4 teams. We all like to rag on Marshall, but truth be told there is less emphasis on SOS at the G5 level than there is at the P5 level.
If it was such a good idea, you wouldn't have seen the mass exodus of the top teams from the FCS to the G5 conferences. Years of studies and millions of dollars have gone into determining that playing in the G5 is better than playing in the FCS. Why would they want to simply create a new FCS?
The thing is that the g5 would get televised while fcs rarely have that luxury. So it would be easy to be an alternative to the monster that is the p5. Imo people would be drawn to real college football. However i believe the g5 will choose to chase the p5 only to become some half assed semi pro league behind the p5.
(11-04-2014 09:40 AM)cleburneslim Wrote: [ -> ]The thing is that the g5 would get televised while fcs rarely have that luxury. So it would be easy to be an alternative to the monster that is the p5. Imo people would be drawn to real college football. However i believe the g5 will choose to chase the p5 only to become some half assed semi pro league behind the p5.
Your post makes a lot of sense, but I think you're overestimating the moral fabric of college football fans. They just want to see the top level of football - and all of the teams that are in play at that level.