CSNbbs

-The more Matta shows up on TV the more people will see what a nob this guy is. (ummm,ummm,ummm,ummmm)

-OSU comes across as the bully now. No more of the big, bad, dirty Bearcats with the black hats. A 6-4 football player walk on guarding an NBA player?

-Perhaps Mike Thomas has learned something from this. Maybe even some of our low functional BOT members have as well.

-Another reminder to the community of the reality of the damage done by Zimpher.

That's not much is it?

This is off topic but would like to ask a question without starting another topic. I thought I read before the football season Mike Thomas canceled a football game that was scheldued. Did I just dream that? If so why couldn't he not sign for the OSU game which everybody knew OSU was going to kick UC's butt and let everybody in the country know how bad UC is. I'm sure the media and fans across the country didn't think UC was very good but now they know for sure. Be a long time before UC lives down that game. Don

mc72642 Wrote:This is off topic but would like to ask a question without starting another topic. I thought I read before the football season Mike Thomas canceled a football game that was scheldued. Did I just dream that? If so why couldn't he not sign for the OSU game which everybody knew OSU was going to kick UC's butt and let everybody in the country know how bad UC is. I'm sure the media and fans across the country didn't think UC was very good but now they know for sure. Be a long time before UC lives down that game. Don

It was the Georgia game (we had 2 games there and 1 game there). It's easier to cancel a football game then a basketball game I guess. The UC administration is so clueless sometimes.

I think after the game against WOOOOFFORD everyone across the country already knew what this team has and has not!

I'm positive that our admin is clueless and continues to show they don't care about the long time loyal supporters.

I'm positive that Zimpher understands her power as pres and used it over Goin in this fiasco.

I'm positive Mike Thomas acts like a lap dog chihuahua and will do whatever Nancy tells him to. He needs to grow a set.

I'm positive UC will not get back to what we had for at least 3 more years. Counting the Kennedy year - that's a long time of crap to endure.

I'm positive that things will get better.

UC will be fine, I really believe we will have a Top 25 team next year. That being said, get ready for Ohio State to replace UC with the evil image, especially if they have one or two off-the-court incidents, and we know they will. Because they are THE Ohio State University after all!

THE BearcatBrent Wrote:I'm positive UC will not get back to what we had for at least 3 more years. Counting the Kennedy year - that's a long time of crap to endure.

I'm positive that things will get better.

Both dead on points that more folks around here need to come to serious grips with unless they enjoy being miserable. This is a 3 year rebuild for Mick and this is only year #1. It will happen but it is going to take a couple of years to actually get players in here. Folks need to understand that and STFU with all the temper tantrums .

Well, I can honestly say the team is doing better than I thought they would, if I go back to last year when they were deciding who to hire for a head coach. We had no recruits signed at that point, Downey was rumored to be leaving (then officially did when Mick was hired), McGowan/Herrera/Ron Allen were our only returning players...........I honestly thought we'd have 1 legit returning player and a bunch of walkons playing our games this year.

It could be alot worse. So, we can't compete with the #4 team in the country yet...........whoop-de-do. I think we were hungover from Wednesday and the big win over Xavier, and I think we were in awe of the talented and big Buckeyes. Not to mention we couldn't hit the broad side of the Pentagon if standing 10 feet from it. A few more three's made and a little less deer in headlights and the game would have been closer. Never thought we had a chance to win unless Vaughn went off for 40 points on 60% shooting or something crazy like that.

This thread is about looking at the positives. We have our future PG/SG (however you view him), Vaughn, and he's starting as a freshman. That is exciting and encouraging. John Williamson is a stud and he's only a third of the way through our season and we get him back next season. Jamal Warren continues to improve and has quick hands for steals and knows how to penetrate and score. We have top rated Mike Williams eligible next year. We have a true 6'10" respectable player eligible next year in Adam H. I like what I've heard about Rashad Bishop and Kenny Belton. And Mick isn't finished yet. Other than McGowan and Allen, everyone is back and Mike Williams easily replaces McGowan. A year of experience will do wonders for this team.

Final positive is that I believe the '08 class will be a good one, but we will need to be patient again after losing most of our starting lineup.

Keep the faith and be patient.

Rath Wrote:

THE BearcatBrent Wrote:I'm positive UC will not get back to what we had for at least 3 more years. Counting the Kennedy year - that's a long time of crap to endure.

I'm positive that things will get better.

Both dead on points that more folks around here need to come to serious grips with unless they enjoy being miserable. This is a 3 year rebuild for Mick and this is only year #1. It will happen but it is going to take a couple of years to actually get players in here. Folks need to understand that and STFU with all the temper tantrums .

Rath,

I think what has worn thin on several of the posters here are a number of issues.

Those who chant the mantra "move on", "get over it", " It is what it is" are some of the first to drag in the "H" word to support their arguments. Perhaps that would not be so bad except their memories are selective and much of their information is taken out of context.

In addition, those who support the current adminstration and have continually chided others who critique their decisions never acknowledge when their arguments and rationale fail to bear fruit. We have a camp that does not want to allow any criticism of the current coaches or adminstration to go unchallenged. They will drag selective and irrelvent "H" issues out to misdirect those arguments..to turn legitmate critical discussions of the current leadership and or coaches into a personal attack and/or pissing contest..always fallacies of irrelevence...I suppose it's the only option sense when one examines the facts..."It is what it is"

Can we recall some past and recent themes...arguments/ discussions? How about where the various groups fell on the issue and what actual has transpired...in fact,"It is what it is" so to speak.

Those of us who critiqued the timing of the past events mentioned several reasons why it was so poor...one, the "H" was on the verge of one of his best recruiting classes, just in time to help us compete in the BEast. As I recall the one camp put their laugh emoticons in every post.... laughing, chiding and insulting those who made those claims about the poor timing and how well "H" was recruiting...well I won't drag the facts out here about recruiting classes in order to avoid the rules of the board that would move this thread to smack, but I believe everyone can read the record in serveral published sources at this point

The other camp claimed the "H" and his poor relaitonship with the NCAA was holding UC back...we were on the NCAA "black" list because of "H". Once "H" was gone with Nancy and her highly respected reputation and warm relationships with the NCAA would let the UC ship set sail, free of NCAA fetters...OK, that has worked out just swell. If the NCAA showed us any more love, I don't think we could take it.

How about the recent tosu game..."Let's do this in order to get the ice thawed and jump start the rivalry..it would be good to have a one-in-one nationally televised rivalry game"...yeah...come again. I guess I misread the papers and misunderstood Mick's owned pre and post game comments

Last week, I questioned Mick's judgement on starting a pissing contest with the NCAA, not that Mick was a totally bad coach, just young and needs more politcal seasoning...what happend , the "We have always been at war with Eurasia" crowd launched on me and the post...well, interesting the next day's statements issued by the NCAA.

There are more issues, some bigger, some lesser..that in the end those who challenge every criticism of the current administration or personnel have been wrong on... again, again, again. You would think a group that has been so wrong on so many issues may eventually stop and collect a few facts first befoie attacking others.

In the end, I kept coming back to the board for the posts of about a half dozen or so guys who really know the players, recruits, AAU circuit and the game itself. Those guys are not posting as much here anymore and I have stopped putting certain information out here as well...I can't say why those guys don't post their information here as much, but for me the dogmatic nature of several posters who change to their positions, assertions, history and arguments to defend everything the current.

If we can not look at this "stuff" honestly and say where we have and are f-ing up, what incentative do we provide for folks running the show to change?

colucat Wrote:I think after the game against WOOOOFFORD everyone across the country already knew what this team has and has not!

Thank you Colucat. I just don't see where OSU is any worse of a preceived loss than Wofford. But, I must admit, having seen Hoops Junky and O arrive at that conclusion, it is quite disconcerting.

Zara,

I think you're missing the point. The former coaching staff had 14 years to build their reputation and the current naysayers are dooming Mick and his staff when they started with FAR LESS than previous coaching staff's including Andy Kennedy's. Along with the fact it's only been TEN GAMES.

The comparisons to former coaching regimes are solely to point out slow starts and rosters with alot of newcomers that took time to develop, to compare to the current situation..........which honestly, there is no comparison because this roster is one of the thinnest we've ever had in terms of talent and experience. Also, the comparisons are to show other games in the past where we've been shellacked by an opponent in similar circumstances.

The doom and gloom from certain posters is being battled with the optimism of other posters solely based on what I stated above.

Give Mick a chance and realize what he's working with. It's not his fault (or maybe we should credit him) that he's 7-3 with a piece meal roster.

MrHankyTheChristmasPoo Wrote:

colucat Wrote:I think after the game against WOOOOFFORD everyone across the country already knew what this team has and has not!

Thank you Colucat. I just don't see where OSU is any worse of a preceived loss than Wofford. But, I must admit, having seen Hoops Junky and O arrive at that conclusion, it is quite disconcerting.

I love your username. I laugh every time I see it. lmfao

bearcat1965 Wrote:Keep the faith and be patient.

Excellent post Chatter65. I just hope the NCAA does nothing to derail our team next year. Bearcat fans have been in a perpetual state of "waiting until next year" for a long time, only to have the NCAA stomp on our chickens (recruits) before they hatch (play).

Although I don't believe that Coach Cronin walks on water, I believe he works too damn hard at what he does to let occurrences like yesterday continue. Huggins made it happen year after year, and so will Mick.

Zarathustra Wrote:The other camp claimed the "H" and his poor relaitonship with the NCAA was holding UC back...we were on the NCAA "black" list because of "H". Once "H" was gone with Nancy and her highly respected reputation and warm relationships with the NCAA would let the UC ship set sail, free of NCAA fetters...OK, that has worked out just swell. If the NCAA showed us any more love, I don't think we could take it.

Can't argue with that one bit.

Quote:If we can not look at this "stuff" honestly and say where we have and are f-ing up, what incentative do we provide for folks running the show to change?

Good point. We are all Bearcat fans, but just because it's happens to be the program we root for doesn't mean everything about it is or will always be hunky dory.

The timing of yesterday's disaster was a problem, but I wonder if it would have been as bad with our suspended big men. I give Cronin and the team kudos for not hiding, though. Cronin's post game comments really exposed the issue.

As far as the recruiting fallout, I seem to remember the Ville drilling us pretty hard in the Shoe in Huggs' first season, and the program turned out allright (better than allright). But, will Mick be able to recruit (take chances) like Huggs did? Doubtful. Mick needs everything possible to go in his favor at this point, and yesterday didn't do us many favors. But he's a workaholic, and that give me plenty of cause for optimism.

MrHankyTheChristmasPoo Wrote:But, will Mick be able to recruit (take chances) like Huggs did? Doubtful.

I don't know about this. Our roster is made up of JC recruits and one prep schooler who isn't playing at IU because of academic issues. Aside from Art Long I'm hard pressed to thing of a Huggins player who the current administration wouldn't allow Mick to recruit.

cmhcat Wrote:-The more Matta shows up on TV the more people will see what a nob this guy is. (ummm,ummm,ummm,ummmm)

-OSU comes across as the bully now. No more of the big, bad, dirty Bearcats with the black hats. A 6-4 football player walk on guarding an NBA player?

-Perhaps Mike Thomas has learned something from this. Maybe even some of our low functional BOT members have as well.

-Another reminder to the community of the reality of the damage done by Zimpher.

That's not much is it?

Thanks for the uplift.

I think we all want to get over this. We all know it will take several years for Cronin to get the basketball program back to national respectability.

However, the problem is that this game should not have been scheduled. The administration inflicted severe damage to the program by not handling the Huggins dismissal properly. Then, to make matters worse, the administration pours salt into the program's open wounds by leading us to the OSU slaughterhouse

I believe this is what most UC fans are upset about. Losing to OSU in this manner and under these circumstances is unacceptable.

If a recruit has obvious red flags, Cronin will leave him be. Huggs had a pretty high tolerance for red flags -- some might say he had a weakness for such players. And some might say he had to gamble on high-risk players since many low-risk players were less inclined to consider UC. That's a matter of record -- that Huggs had a shallower pool of recruits to draw from than many big-time programs had. I think early on he figured he had to take those risks in order to elevate the program, and that was surely correct. He never seemed to recalibrate over the years however, and enough of them blew up in his face continually to preserve the bad guy image (which was really a disservice to all the solid citizens he had, and all the good things Bob was also about). I think Bob lives out on that edge and always will. It is OK with KSU now - they knew what they were buying - and it was OK with UC for a long time, but he kept doing it long after he needed to. When suddenly faced with an administration that had zero tolerance for the negatives, he couldn't adapt, which is probably understandable.

I think Mick knows (without being told) that he needs to redraw that line. But I also think his line is in a different place than Bob's to begin with. Most coaches' lines are, for that matter. Mick has said himself what every coach knows - every recruit is a risk to some degree. so you have to use your sliding scale.

It is troubling that the NCAA decisions continue to go against UC, and I admit I thought that the coaching change would make a difference in that , as well as in getting the benefit of more officiating calls over time. That still may happen. But I think we've also learned that unless you're one of the sacred cow institutions, the NCAA hates you and will punish your players for no apparent reason. I checked the NCAA's web site to make sure they weren't being so hypocritical as to state their organization's commitment to fair play and the welfare of the student-athlete. They don't say that, which is both disconcerting and reassuring. I do expect that Cronin will need less help from the NCAA over time, since those kinds of cases constitute the risks that he (like the early Huggs) needed to take to stock his roster, but he can get away from more and more. (Plus UC will have more time to assess such recruits in advance than Mick had last spring.)

I don't think Cronin's recruiting success is going to have any spectacular aspect to it in the near future, like what O$U has done. But I think this first class he recruited in the spring was as solid as he could have gotten under the circumstances, this next class will be quite good as far as taking the next step up, and I'm sure the '08 group will be another step up. He's factoring in sustainability and four-year guys and building something that will have shelf life. I think we're going to start seeing a full roster in the next couple years and it'll stay that way, which is something you need at the Big East level and something we haven't had in forever.

If these things happen, and most basketball observers and experts think it will, then it doesn't reflect badly on anything that went here before. That was what it was, and this will be what it will be.

Be careful mentioning the coach who's name shall remain nameless. It might get you banned.

I'm looking forward to the future and preaching patience. For the 100th time, Mick inherited the worst situation of any UC head coach in the past 15 years.

Zarathustra Wrote:

Rath Wrote:

THE BearcatBrent Wrote:I'm positive UC will not get back to what we had for at least 3 more years. Counting the Kennedy year - that's a long time of crap to endure.

I'm positive that things will get better.

Both dead on points that more folks around here need to come to serious grips with unless they enjoy being miserable. This is a 3 year rebuild for Mick and this is only year #1. It will happen but it is going to take a couple of years to actually get players in here. Folks need to understand that and STFU with all the temper tantrums .

Rath,

I think what has worn thin on several of the posters here are a number of issues.

Those who chant the mantra "move on", "get over it", " It is what it is" are some of the first to drag in the "H" word to support their arguments. Perhaps that would not be so bad except their memories are selective and much of their information is taken out of context.

In addition, those who support the current adminstration and have continually chided others who critique their decisions never acknowledge when their arguments and rationale fail to bear fruit. We have a camp that does not want to allow any criticism of the current coaches or adminstration to go unchallenged. They will drag selective and irrelvent "H" issues out to misdirect those arguments..to turn legitmate critical discussions of the current leadership and or coaches into a personal attack and/or pissing contest..always fallacies of irrelevence...I suppose it's the only option sense when one examines the facts..."It is what it is"

Can we recall some past and recent themes...arguments/ discussions? How about where the various groups fell on the issue and what actual has transpired...in fact,"It is what it is" so to speak.

Those of us who critiqued the timing of the past events mentioned several reasons why it was so poor...one, the "H" was on the verge of one of his best recruiting classes, just in time to help us compete in the BEast. As I recall the one camp put their laugh emoticons in every post.... laughing, chiding and insulting those who made those claims about the poor timing and how well "H" was recruiting...well I won't drag the facts out here about recruiting classes in order to avoid the rules of the board that would move this thread to smack, but I believe everyone can read the record in serveral published sources at this point

The other camp claimed the "H" and his poor relaitonship with the NCAA was holding UC back...we were on the NCAA "black" list because of "H". Once "H" was gone with Nancy and her highly respected reputation and warm relationships with the NCAA would let the UC ship set sail, free of NCAA fetters...OK, that has worked out just swell. If the NCAA showed us any more love, I don't think we could take it.

How about the recent tosu game..."Let's do this in order to get the ice thawed and jump start the rivalry..it would be good to have a one-in-one nationally televised rivalry game"...yeah...come again. I guess I misread the papers and misunderstood Mick's owned pre and post game comments

Last week, I questioned Mick's judgement on starting a pissing contest with the NCAA, not that Mick was a totally bad coach, just young and needs more politcal seasoning...what happend , the "We have always been at war with Eurasia" crowd launched on me and the post...well, interesting the next day's statements issued by the NCAA.

There are more issues, some bigger, some lesser..that in the end those who challenge every criticism of the current administration or personnel have been wrong on... again, again, again. You would think a group that has been so wrong on so many issues may eventually stop and collect a few facts first befoie attacking others.

In the end, I kept coming back to the board for the posts of about a half dozen or so guys who really know the players, recruits, AAU circuit and the game itself. Those guys are not posting as much here anymore and I have stopped putting certain information out here as well...I can't say why those guys don't post their information here as much, but for me the dogmatic nature of several posters who change to their positions, assertions, history and arguments to defend everything the current.

If we can not look at this "stuff" honestly and say where we have and are f-ing up, what incentative do we provide for folks running the show to change?

I'm starting to get really bored with this stuff. Either shut up and support the teams or shut up and be quietly miserable.

Nobody who is moaning has said anything new in a year and a half.

I know one thing that made made me feel good about yesterday's game: that "engine sludge" commercial during the game! That thing always cracks me up, and just about provided me comic relief amid yesterday's events lmfao