CSNbbs

50 photos from a HS alumni FB game in August and we can't even get a local reporter to MAC media day? Come on! Actually, I'm ok with coverage of the alumni event. Just wish our local D1 squad coverage was as consistent. To be fair, I did enjoy the 2014 segment previews in the past couple weeks. Keep it up!

(08-03-2014 09:27 AM)Broncos83 Wrote: [ -> ]50 photos from a HS alumni FB game in August and we can't even get a local reporter to MAC media day? Come on! Actually, I'm ok with coverage of the alumni event. Just wish our local D1 squad coverage was as consistent. To be fair, I did enjoy the 2014 segment previews in the past couple weeks. Keep it up!

As has been stated previously, it is totally inexcusable for our local MEDIA not to attend MEDIA Day, especially when it is only a two hour drive away. Not only is it disrespectful to our football program, but it's disrespectful to the university, the Kalamazoo community, and also the MAC. It's a black eye to our community when every other school is represented at the event, except ours.

And we wonder why 1) WMU reciprocates the same lack of commitment to MLive. 2) We don't get good in-depth coverage of the program anymore.

I find it interesting, we treat DDs performance like he's a college or HS player. It's okay to blame the coach, i.e. the Mlive editors, but DD is off limits.

Come on, he shows up for work on time, he puts in his hours, he churns out some articles, and he's putting up with a crap business model. What more do you expect from him?

For starters, he's producing a product that subscribers and advertisers pay for. Second, we have something to compare his work to like Couch and last years Broncoblitz crew (who basically worked for free).

I've never worked in a profession where putting in your 8 hours was considered good enough.

I think he's spread way too thin, I'm going off of what Grahm Couch predicted when he left and he even asked us to be patient with him because his job wasn't going to be easy.

I'd imagine if he were to address the lack of covereage, it would be along the lines of covering what is newsworthy, as in what people are really interested in reading. You know, priorities.

We think WMU is the be all end all of news, but right now a team coming off of a 1-11 year really doesn't light the world on fire interest wise.

How is it that more than a dozen bloggers from all over the Midwest paid for the trip to Detroit out of their own pockets (i.e. Hustle Belt and others), and yet the people who get paid to do this for a living can't?

(08-03-2014 11:44 AM)BroncoLifer Wrote: [ -> ]I think he's spread way too thin, I'm going off of what Grahm Couch predicted when he left and he even asked us to be patient with him because his job wasn't going to be easy.

I'd imagine if he were to address the lack of covereage, it would be along the lines of covering what is newsworthy, as in what people are really interested in reading. You know, priorities.

We think WMU is the be all end all of news, but right now a team coming off of a 1-11 year really doesn't light the world on fire interest wise.

If you had a chance to read the ACTUAL Gazette sports section you would see that it 90% filler material from the Mlive syndication group.

Stories on Gardners hangnail, Cabrera's favorite tequila, or Izzo's secret for covering his bald spot. It's full of worthless tripe.

Then when you do get to the local stuff it's a Growlers recap and a preview of WMU football courtesy of Phil Steele and Lindys.

I actually thought DD might have read something here last week and put it to practice. He had an article on Joe Reitz possibly starting for Indy this year. But then I read it and it was basically a giant quote (word for word reprint) of an article from the Indy Star. Did he bother to call Reitz, who is very accomidating? No.

Do you think GC would have? Yep.

I'm sorry, but the "spread to thin" argument doesn't work when there are others out there doing it on their own dime, in their spare time (beyond their 9-5 jobs), with far less resources. Part of it comes down to commitment and effort. I'm sick of the excuses. Where's the accountability?

The live chats are worthless too.

You get the "Captain Obvious" answer, or the "I'll look into it", which he never does.

As for the "accountability" aspect Persky refers to, that's the beauty of DDs job. The Milive chief in GR hasn't a clue what is newsworthy in Kalamazoo, so he goes with the dumbed down USA Today model, combined with this inane Facebook model for generating comments and "likes."

The advertisers are suckers. They've been led to believe that site traffic and comments is no different then the number of paying subscribers. In 5 years of reading Mlive I've never once clicked on an ad.

All choices.

I think people who do this on their own dime are hobbyists at best and not to be compared to someone who's struggling to do this for a career. You guys sure are making this personal about David, he must have really frosted you local hobbyist "insiders", something that you want to share? Obviously there's more to the story.

The fact that there's a comparison even being made is exactly the problem.

(08-03-2014 12:23 PM)BroncoLifer Wrote: [ -> ]All choices.

I think people who do this on their own dime are hobbyists at best and not to be compared to someone who's struggling to do this for a career. You guys sure are making this personal about David, he must have really frosted you local hobbyist "insiders", something that you want to share? Obviously there's more to the story.

Hobbiests or not, they give a lot of direct quotes from players, coaches, and recruits. They posted daily updates from Fall Camp. Hell, the paid guy often quotes the hobbiest and calls it news.

Phil Steele started as a "hobbiest," and has mad a fortune. The guy who started Rival and now owns 24/7 began as a "hobbiest" writing about Bama football. He sold his hobby for millions.

At the same time the old model "professional" sports writer is dying on the vine.

Where does 90% of the interesting sports info posted here get linked from? Mostly blogs, that started with hobbiest and grew into trusted sources.

(08-03-2014 12:33 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:23 PM)BroncoLifer Wrote: [ -> ]All choices.

I think people who do this on their own dime are hobbyists at best and not to be compared to someone who's struggling to do this for a career. You guys sure are making this personal about David, he must have really frosted you local hobbyist "insiders", something that you want to share? Obviously there's more to the story.

Hobbiests or not, they give a lot of direct quotes from players, coaches, and recruits. They posted daily updates from Fall Camp. Hell, the paid guy often quotes the hobbiest and calls it news.

Phil Steele started as a "hobbiest," and has mad a fortune. The guy who started Rival and now owns 24/7 began as a "hobbiest" writing about Bama football. He sold his hobby for millions.

At the same time the old model "professional" sports writer is dying on the vine.

Where does 90% of the interesting sports info posted here get linked from? Mostly blogs, that started with hobbiest and grew into trusted sources.

Ok, you've cleared up the hobbyist point for us, well done. DD has other duties that JUST WMU to cover, that would be the large difference between he and a hobbyist. That's my point.

So what's the personal issue with David? I've asked this a couple of times and it gets ignored, why?

(08-03-2014 12:36 PM)BroncoLifer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:33 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:23 PM)BroncoLifer Wrote: [ -> ]All choices.

I think people who do this on their own dime are hobbyists at best and not to be compared to someone who's struggling to do this for a career. You guys sure are making this personal about David, he must have really frosted you local hobbyist "insiders", something that you want to share? Obviously there's more to the story.

Hobbiests or not, they give a lot of direct quotes from players, coaches, and recruits. They posted daily updates from Fall Camp. Hell, the paid guy often quotes the hobbiest and calls it news.

Phil Steele started as a "hobbiest," and has mad a fortune. The guy who started Rival and now owns 24/7 began as a "hobbiest" writing about Bama football. He sold his hobby for millions.

At the same time the old model "professional" sports writer is dying on the vine.

Where does 90% of the interesting sports info posted here get linked from? Mostly blogs, that started with hobbiest and grew into trusted sources.

Ok, you've cleared up the hobbyist point for us, well done.

So what's the personal issue with David? I've asked this a couple of times and it gets ignored, why?

Because it's a stupid attempt at trolling and there is no personal issue?

(08-03-2014 12:37 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:36 PM)BroncoLifer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:33 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:23 PM)BroncoLifer Wrote: [ -> ]All choices.

I think people who do this on their own dime are hobbyists at best and not to be compared to someone who's struggling to do this for a career. You guys sure are making this personal about David, he must have really frosted you local hobbyist "insiders", something that you want to share? Obviously there's more to the story.

Hobbiests or not, they give a lot of direct quotes from players, coaches, and recruits. They posted daily updates from Fall Camp. Hell, the paid guy often quotes the hobbiest and calls it news.

Phil Steele started as a "hobbiest," and has mad a fortune. The guy who started Rival and now owns 24/7 began as a "hobbiest" writing about Bama football. He sold his hobby for millions.

At the same time the old model "professional" sports writer is dying on the vine.

Where does 90% of the interesting sports info posted here get linked from? Mostly blogs, that started with hobbiest and grew into trusted sources.

Ok, you've cleared up the hobbyist point for us, well done.

So what's the personal issue with David? I've asked this a couple of times and it gets ignored, why?

Because it's a stupid attempt at trolling and there is no personal issue?

Thanks for chiming in, I guess you haven't been reading their responses though, they're making it personal accusing him of not working hard enough, caring enough, et al.

So I asked THE GUYS who accused him of these actions to explain themselves. A trolling attempt is someone saying something imflammatory just to garner responses, mine was a direct, pointed question aimed at a poster or two who made claims.

Glad I could clarify that for you.

(08-03-2014 12:36 PM)BroncoLifer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:33 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:23 PM)BroncoLifer Wrote: [ -> ]All choices.

I think people who do this on their own dime are hobbyists at best and not to be compared to someone who's struggling to do this for a career. You guys sure are making this personal about David, he must have really frosted you local hobbyist "insiders", something that you want to share? Obviously there's more to the story.

Hobbiests or not, they give a lot of direct quotes from players, coaches, and recruits. They posted daily updates from Fall Camp. Hell, the paid guy often quotes the hobbiest and calls it news.

Phil Steele started as a "hobbiest," and has mad a fortune. The guy who started Rival and now owns 24/7 began as a "hobbiest" writing about Bama football. He sold his hobby for millions.

At the same time the old model "professional" sports writer is dying on the vine.

Where does 90% of the interesting sports info posted here get linked from? Mostly blogs, that started with hobbiest and grew into trusted sources.

Ok, you've cleared up the hobbyist point for us, well done. DD has other duties that JUST WMU to cover, that would be the large difference between he and a hobbyist. That's my point.

So what's the personal issue with David? I've asked this a couple of times and it gets ignored, why?

I don't even know Dave Drew, I just know that his articles and coverage are substandard to previous Gazette sports writers, and not nearly as informative as what the "hobbiests" are giving us.

(08-03-2014 12:42 PM)BroncoLifer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:37 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:36 PM)BroncoLifer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:33 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:23 PM)BroncoLifer Wrote: [ -> ]All choices.

I think people who do this on their own dime are hobbyists at best and not to be compared to someone who's struggling to do this for a career. You guys sure are making this personal about David, he must have really frosted you local hobbyist "insiders", something that you want to share? Obviously there's more to the story.

Hobbiests or not, they give a lot of direct quotes from players, coaches, and recruits. They posted daily updates from Fall Camp. Hell, the paid guy often quotes the hobbiest and calls it news.

Phil Steele started as a "hobbiest," and has mad a fortune. The guy who started Rival and now owns 24/7 began as a "hobbiest" writing about Bama football. He sold his hobby for millions.

At the same time the old model "professional" sports writer is dying on the vine.

Where does 90% of the interesting sports info posted here get linked from? Mostly blogs, that started with hobbiest and grew into trusted sources.

Ok, you've cleared up the hobbyist point for us, well done.

So what's the personal issue with David? I've asked this a couple of times and it gets ignored, why?

Because it's a stupid attempt at trolling and there is no personal issue?

Thanks for chiming in, I guess you haven't been reading their responses though, they're making it personal accusing him of not working hard enough, caring enough, et al.

So I asked THE GUYS who accused him of these actions to explain themselves. A trolling attempt is someone saying something imflammatory just to garner responses, mine was a direct, pointed question aimed at a poster or two who made claims.

Glad I could clarify that for you.

Yes and they're saying it based on the results that are being put out. Chipdip has been pointing out specifically the lack of quotes and the use of other people's legwork. So either you aren't reading or you're just being deliberately obtuse to pick a fight. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know which it is.

(08-03-2014 12:45 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:42 PM)BroncoLifer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:37 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:36 PM)BroncoLifer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:33 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote: [ -> ]Hobbiests or not, they give a lot of direct quotes from players, coaches, and recruits. They posted daily updates from Fall Camp. Hell, the paid guy often quotes the hobbiest and calls it news.

Phil Steele started as a "hobbiest," and has mad a fortune. The guy who started Rival and now owns 24/7 began as a "hobbiest" writing about Bama football. He sold his hobby for millions.

At the same time the old model "professional" sports writer is dying on the vine.

Where does 90% of the interesting sports info posted here get linked from? Mostly blogs, that started with hobbiest and grew into trusted sources.

Ok, you've cleared up the hobbyist point for us, well done.

So what's the personal issue with David? I've asked this a couple of times and it gets ignored, why?

Because it's a stupid attempt at trolling and there is no personal issue?

Thanks for chiming in, I guess you haven't been reading their responses though, they're making it personal accusing him of not working hard enough, caring enough, et al.

So I asked THE GUYS who accused him of these actions to explain themselves. A trolling attempt is someone saying something imflammatory just to garner responses, mine was a direct, pointed question aimed at a poster or two who made claims.

Glad I could clarify that for you.

Yes and they're saying it based on the results that are being put out. Chipdip has been pointing out specifically the lack of quotes and the use of other people's legwork. So either you aren't reading or you're just being deliberately obtuse to pick a fight. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know which it is.

Well, since I directed the question at the two people who made those accusations, why don't you let them answer themselves?

I get your agenda and bias, thinking I'm trying to pick a fight, but there seems to be more to this bashing of mlive and I'm asking what here.

Is there an issue with that question?

I don't think he's trolling. He just craves negative attention. You always have a student or two like this in your class. They didn't do their homework, they feel left out of the discussion and learning because of it, but they still want to feel included in the discussion so they act out to garner attention. He'll out grow it.

(08-03-2014 12:49 PM)BroncoLifer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:45 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:42 PM)BroncoLifer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:37 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:36 PM)BroncoLifer Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, you've cleared up the hobbyist point for us, well done.

So what's the personal issue with David? I've asked this a couple of times and it gets ignored, why?

Because it's a stupid attempt at trolling and there is no personal issue?

Thanks for chiming in, I guess you haven't been reading their responses though, they're making it personal accusing him of not working hard enough, caring enough, et al.

So I asked THE GUYS who accused him of these actions to explain themselves. A trolling attempt is someone saying something imflammatory just to garner responses, mine was a direct, pointed question aimed at a poster or two who made claims.

Glad I could clarify that for you.

Yes and they're saying it based on the results that are being put out. Chipdip has been pointing out specifically the lack of quotes and the use of other people's legwork. So either you aren't reading or you're just being deliberately obtuse to pick a fight. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know which it is.

Well, since I directed the question at the two people who made those accusations, why don't you let them answer themselves?

I get your agenda and bias, thinking I'm trying to pick a fight, but there seems to be more to this bashing of mlive and I'm asking what here.

Is there an issue with that question?

Oh please do tell what that "agenda and bias" is.

(08-03-2014 12:44 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:36 PM)BroncoLifer Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:33 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014 12:23 PM)BroncoLifer Wrote: [ -> ]All choices.

I think people who do this on their own dime are hobbyists at best and not to be compared to someone who's struggling to do this for a career. You guys sure are making this personal about David, he must have really frosted you local hobbyist "insiders", something that you want to share? Obviously there's more to the story.

Hobbiests or not, they give a lot of direct quotes from players, coaches, and recruits. They posted daily updates from Fall Camp. Hell, the paid guy often quotes the hobbiest and calls it news.

Phil Steele started as a "hobbiest," and has mad a fortune. The guy who started Rival and now owns 24/7 began as a "hobbiest" writing about Bama football. He sold his hobby for millions.

At the same time the old model "professional" sports writer is dying on the vine.

Where does 90% of the interesting sports info posted here get linked from? Mostly blogs, that started with hobbiest and grew into trusted sources.

Ok, you've cleared up the hobbyist point for us, well done. DD has other duties that JUST WMU to cover, that would be the large difference between he and a hobbyist. That's my point.

So what's the personal issue with David? I've asked this a couple of times and it gets ignored, why?

I don't even know Dave Drew, I just know that his articles and coverage are substandard to previous Gazette sports writers, and not nearly as informative as what the "hobbiests" are giving us.

Cop out. You made these statements just in this thread, and many more elsewhere.

Quote:The live chats are worthless too.

You get the "Captain Obvious" answer, or the "I'll look into it", which he never does.

As for the "accountability" aspect Persky refers to, that's the beauty of DDs job. The Milive chief in GR hasn't a clue what is newsworthy in Kalamazoo, so he goes with the dumbed down USA Today model, combined with this inane Facebook model for generating comments and "likes."

Quote:I've never worked in a profession where just putting 8 hours is good enough

Do you know for a fact that he's just putting in 8 and mailing it in?

As far as not being accountable, who exactly should he be accountable to here? Couch told us DD was going to be challenged when he left. Who is he not being held accountable to? You guys are making very strong accusations and not backing them up, making it personal.

You cancelled your subscription, that's the way to hold them accountable, right?