That article isn't as damning of humanities as I thought it was going to be. Still, not a very positive finding.
I think the attack on liberal arts degrees is correct. However, we run a major risk of shifting many of those kids into other useless degrees, and ones that are also in no real demand, like general business.
Granted, the liberal arts degree may be the single most useless but we can't forget that liberal arts are a small number of the overall pie of over educated under achieving college graduates. If those kids just get a general business degree their prospects are unlikely to improve.
The higher ed. bubble can't pop soon enough.
(05-28-2014 02:08 PM)dmacfour Wrote: [ -> ]That article isn't as damning of humanities as I thought it was going to be. Still, not a very positive finding.
Why not?
(05-28-2014 02:10 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: [ -> ]I think the attack on liberal arts degrees is correct. However, we run a major risk of shifting many of those kids into other useless degrees, and ones that are also in no real demand, like general business.
Granted, the liberal arts degree may be the single most useless but we can't forget that liberal arts are a small number of the overall pie of over educated under achieving college graduates. If those kids just get a general business degree their prospects are unlikely to improve.
The higher ed. bubble can't pop soon enough.
Good points.
I think a lot of these issues demonstrate a real problem in our society. We need to quit looking down on plumbers and skilled labour. Who should really be laughed at more, a kid who becomes a mechanic because they love cars or a ditzy fool who spends $100k on a worthless education to make $40k?
(05-28-2014 02:11 PM)DrTorch Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 02:08 PM)dmacfour Wrote: [ -> ]That article isn't as damning of humanities as I thought it was going to be. Still, not a very positive finding.
Why not?
(05-28-2014 02:10 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: [ -> ]I think the attack on liberal arts degrees is correct. However, we run a major risk of shifting many of those kids into other useless degrees, and ones that are also in no real demand, like general business.
Granted, the liberal arts degree may be the single most useless but we can't forget that liberal arts are a small number of the overall pie of over educated under achieving college graduates. If those kids just get a general business degree their prospects are unlikely to improve.
The higher ed. bubble can't pop soon enough.
Good points.
There are a whole lot of people getting degrees in subjects with no demand. A lot of these people were told to follow their dreams, and probably started school just before the recession hit. Now they're totally f!cked. IMO, the biggest problem with liberal arts degrees is that they aren't necessarily coupled with something useful. Why don't we force people who're interested in psychology to double major or minor in something useful?
Get more of 'em into engineering!!!! I need some newbies to boss around here hah
(05-28-2014 02:29 PM)dmacfour Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 02:11 PM)DrTorch Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 02:08 PM)dmacfour Wrote: [ -> ]That article isn't as damning of humanities as I thought it was going to be. Still, not a very positive finding.
Why not?
(05-28-2014 02:10 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: [ -> ]I think the attack on liberal arts degrees is correct. However, we run a major risk of shifting many of those kids into other useless degrees, and ones that are also in no real demand, like general business.
Granted, the liberal arts degree may be the single most useless but we can't forget that liberal arts are a small number of the overall pie of over educated under achieving college graduates. If those kids just get a general business degree their prospects are unlikely to improve.
The higher ed. bubble can't pop soon enough.
Good points.
There are a whole lot of people getting degrees in subjects with no demand. IMO, the biggest problem with liberal arts degrees is that they aren't necessarily coupled with something useful. Why don't we force people who're interested in psychology to double major or minor in something useful?
Yeah, like a trade of some sort. They'd be making more money. Really, if I call a plumber he'll charge me around 65 bucks to make a showing. If I don't hire him I'll lose those 65 bucks but if I do I'll have to shell out more. It's a dirty job but it's clean money.
(05-28-2014 02:29 PM)dmacfour Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 02:11 PM)DrTorch Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 02:08 PM)dmacfour Wrote: [ -> ]That article isn't as damning of humanities as I thought it was going to be. Still, not a very positive finding.
Why not?
(05-28-2014 02:10 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: [ -> ]I think the attack on liberal arts degrees is correct. However, we run a major risk of shifting many of those kids into other useless degrees, and ones that are also in no real demand, like general business.
Granted, the liberal arts degree may be the single most useless but we can't forget that liberal arts are a small number of the overall pie of over educated under achieving college graduates. If those kids just get a general business degree their prospects are unlikely to improve.
The higher ed. bubble can't pop soon enough.
Good points.
There are a whole lot of people getting degrees in subjects with no demand. A lot of these people were told to follow their dreams, and probably started school just before the recession hit. Now they're totally f!cked. IMO, the biggest problem with liberal arts degrees is that they aren't necessarily coupled with something useful. Why don't we force people who're interested in psychology to double major or minor in something useful?
Because they're adults and should take personal responsibility.
I think the whole thing starts with an understanding of what a degree is and what it entitles you to do etc. For the most part kids seem to think it is a pass and a meal ticket. I can say that especially when it comes to lawyers.
Not like it'll stop Obama if that's his next cause. Just force it, it'll be good for you like Obamacare.
(05-28-2014 02:35 PM)DrTorch Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 02:29 PM)dmacfour Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 02:11 PM)DrTorch Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 02:08 PM)dmacfour Wrote: [ -> ]That article isn't as damning of humanities as I thought it was going to be. Still, not a very positive finding.
Why not?
(05-28-2014 02:10 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: [ -> ]I think the attack on liberal arts degrees is correct. However, we run a major risk of shifting many of those kids into other useless degrees, and ones that are also in no real demand, like general business.
Granted, the liberal arts degree may be the single most useless but we can't forget that liberal arts are a small number of the overall pie of over educated under achieving college graduates. If those kids just get a general business degree their prospects are unlikely to improve.
The higher ed. bubble can't pop soon enough.
Good points.
There are a whole lot of people getting degrees in subjects with no demand. A lot of these people were told to follow their dreams, and probably started school just before the recession hit. Now they're totally f!cked. IMO, the biggest problem with liberal arts degrees is that they aren't necessarily coupled with something useful. Why don't we force people who're interested in psychology to double major or minor in something useful?
Because they're adults and should take personal responsibility.
They aren't really adults when they accept their student loans.
(05-28-2014 03:01 PM)dmacfour Wrote: [ -> ]They aren't really adults when they accept their student loans.
Need to stop this prolonged adolescence.
(05-28-2014 02:29 PM)dmacfour Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 02:11 PM)DrTorch Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 02:08 PM)dmacfour Wrote: [ -> ]That article isn't as damning of humanities as I thought it was going to be. Still, not a very positive finding.
Why not?
(05-28-2014 02:10 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: [ -> ]I think the attack on liberal arts degrees is correct. However, we run a major risk of shifting many of those kids into other useless degrees, and ones that are also in no real demand, like general business.
Granted, the liberal arts degree may be the single most useless but we can't forget that liberal arts are a small number of the overall pie of over educated under achieving college graduates. If those kids just get a general business degree their prospects are unlikely to improve.
The higher ed. bubble can't pop soon enough.
Good points.
There are a whole lot of people getting degrees in subjects with no demand. A lot of these people were told to follow their dreams, and probably started school just before the recession hit. Now they're totally f!cked. IMO, the biggest problem with liberal arts degrees is that they aren't necessarily coupled with something useful. Why don't we force people who're interested in psychology to double major or minor in something useful?
We're ALL barking up the wrong tree. The reason we have people with college degrees that can't find jobs is because we haven't been and aren't creating enough of them.
Period.
Some of yous can deny it all you want or deflect to time since past or simply state "There is no evidence that XXX is hampering job growth or creation". But that doesn't make it so.
We have allowed Government at ALL levels to impede what ought to be our birth right as Americans. The ability to use our brains, brawn, and balls to create a job if we can, work hard, take risks and get ahead. We've got FAR to many obstacles to that simple formula now and it's, unfortunately, the younger amongst us paying a heavy price.
(05-28-2014 03:12 PM)JMUDunk Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 02:29 PM)dmacfour Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 02:11 PM)DrTorch Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 02:08 PM)dmacfour Wrote: [ -> ]That article isn't as damning of humanities as I thought it was going to be. Still, not a very positive finding.
Why not?
(05-28-2014 02:10 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: [ -> ]I think the attack on liberal arts degrees is correct. However, we run a major risk of shifting many of those kids into other useless degrees, and ones that are also in no real demand, like general business.
Granted, the liberal arts degree may be the single most useless but we can't forget that liberal arts are a small number of the overall pie of over educated under achieving college graduates. If those kids just get a general business degree their prospects are unlikely to improve.
The higher ed. bubble can't pop soon enough.
Good points.
There are a whole lot of people getting degrees in subjects with no demand. A lot of these people were told to follow their dreams, and probably started school just before the recession hit. Now they're totally f!cked. IMO, the biggest problem with liberal arts degrees is that they aren't necessarily coupled with something useful. Why don't we force people who're interested in psychology to double major or minor in something useful?
We're ALL barking up the wrong tree. The reason we have people with college degrees that can't find jobs is because we haven't been and aren't creating enough of them.
Period.
Some of yous can deny it all you want or deflect to time since past or simply state "There is no evidence that XXX is hampering job growth or creation". But that doesn't make it so.
We have allowed Government at ALL levels to impede what ought to be our birth right as Americans. The ability to use our brains, brawn, and balls to create a job if we can, work hard, take risks and get ahead. We've got FAR to many obstacles to that simple formula now and it's, unfortunately, the younger amongst us paying a heavy price.
I agree with this, but the higher ed industry is a big part of the impediment.
(05-28-2014 03:12 PM)DrTorch Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 03:01 PM)dmacfour Wrote: [ -> ]They aren't really adults when they accept their student loans.
Need to stop this prolonged adolescence.
Many of them are literally under 18 when they get their FAFSA stuff squared away.
(05-28-2014 03:16 PM)dmacfour Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 03:12 PM)DrTorch Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 03:01 PM)dmacfour Wrote: [ -> ]They aren't really adults when they accept their student loans.
Need to stop this prolonged adolescence.
Many of them are literally under 18 when they get their FAFSA stuff squared away.
That isn't for all 4 years, is it?
Anyway, I'd like to see the market take over. State universities should only have departments and majors that fulfill their (original) missions.
New universities (with broader mission statements) should have to provide economic justification for their departments. If you don't make it, then fees should reflect full costs. (Obviously that's still subsidized because of cost sharing w/ the viable departments, but that's a positive).
(05-28-2014 03:21 PM)DrTorch Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 03:16 PM)dmacfour Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 03:12 PM)DrTorch Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 03:01 PM)dmacfour Wrote: [ -> ]They aren't really adults when they accept their student loans.
Need to stop this prolonged adolescence.
Many of them are literally under 18 when they get their FAFSA stuff squared away.
That isn't for all 4 years, is it?
Anyway, I'd like to see the market take over. State universities should only have departments and majors that fulfill their (original) missions.
New universities (with broader mission statements) should have to provide economic justification for their departments. If you don't make it, then fees should reflect full costs. (Obviously that's still subsidized because of cost sharing w/ the viable departments, but that's a positive).
The original mission of land grant schools was decided over 150 years ago.
(05-28-2014 03:14 PM)DrTorch Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 03:12 PM)JMUDunk Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 02:29 PM)dmacfour Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 02:11 PM)DrTorch Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2014 02:08 PM)dmacfour Wrote: [ -> ]That article isn't as damning of humanities as I thought it was going to be. Still, not a very positive finding.
Why not?
(05-28-2014 02:10 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: [ -> ]I think the attack on liberal arts degrees is correct. However, we run a major risk of shifting many of those kids into other useless degrees, and ones that are also in no real demand, like general business.
Granted, the liberal arts degree may be the single most useless but we can't forget that liberal arts are a small number of the overall pie of over educated under achieving college graduates. If those kids just get a general business degree their prospects are unlikely to improve.
The higher ed. bubble can't pop soon enough.
Good points.
There are a whole lot of people getting degrees in subjects with no demand. A lot of these people were told to follow their dreams, and probably started school just before the recession hit. Now they're totally f!cked. IMO, the biggest problem with liberal arts degrees is that they aren't necessarily coupled with something useful. Why don't we force people who're interested in psychology to double major or minor in something useful?
We're ALL barking up the wrong tree. The reason we have people with college degrees that can't find jobs is because we haven't been and aren't creating enough of them.
Period.
Some of yous can deny it all you want or deflect to time since past or simply state "There is no evidence that XXX is hampering job growth or creation". But that doesn't make it so.
We have allowed Government at ALL levels to impede what ought to be our birth right as Americans. The ability to use our brains, brawn, and balls to create a job if we can, work hard, take risks and get ahead. We've got FAR to many obstacles to that simple formula now and it's, unfortunately, the younger amongst us paying a heavy price.
I agree with this, but the higher ed industry is a big part of the impediment.
More and more Big Education is starting to resemble BIG Government. Bloated, expensive, catering to other "needs" instead of educating and countless other ills.
My freshman year (not exactly back in the stone age) our dorms didn't even have A/C. Nowadays? hahhahaa, the place would fold in a weekend without A/C 800 food choices, limitless "workout" options and a whole host of other fringe schit. That's why BIG Ed has grown so out of control.
It really doesn't cost any more to educate a kid now than it did my Dad back in the 30's and 40's.
Holy krap..............................ANY knowledge gained by the individual ENRICHES that individual's life