and they now want their money back. The overpayment was their fault, should you have to pay them back the money? That is what happened to NFL player Wes Welker. Obviously the money is no big deal to him, but to the average Joe it would be.
Quote:Earlier this month, Denver Broncos wide receiver Wes Welker was seen at the Kentucky Derby carrying a huge stack of cash after winning a bet, even handing out $100 bills to random people.
Now Churchill Downs, which puts on the event, says that money might not have been rightfully his.
"An individual believed to be a member of Wes Welker's group on Kentucky Derby day was the beneficiary of an overpayment north of $14,000 on a wager due to a tote malfunction," Churchill Downs spokesman Darren Rogers said in a statement. "In turn, a letter has been sent to that individual in an attempt to resolve the error."
TMZ reported that Welker sent a friend to collect the winnings. Churchill Downs in turn paid out a total of $57,193.90 to that person, according to TMZ.
Welker, who owns race horses, told "The Dan Patrick Show" on Friday that he never calculated how much he and his friends were due and that Churchill Downs could have underpaid them and they wouldn't have known.
Welker and his friends made the bulk of their money by boxing Commanding Curve, a 37-1 long shot that came in second place in the Derby. A $2 exacta bet, for example, with California Chrome and Commanding Curve paid out $340 that day.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/109410...hill-downs
I accidentally bet on losing horses at Belmont a few times
… perhaps I should be reimbursed for that malfunction.
The house always wins. Always. There is no such thing as a "Bank Error In Your Favor" any longer.
Is this any different than a bank accidently putting money in someone's account?
If it's their fault then they should suck it up.
(05-16-2014 10:59 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote: [ -> ]If it's their fault then they should suck it up.
He could be charged with theft I suppose.
(05-16-2014 11:00 AM)VA49er Wrote: [ -> ] (05-16-2014 10:59 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote: [ -> ]If it's their fault then they should suck it up.
He could be charged with theft I suppose.
If he is charged with theft, he should seek a jury trial. I don't believe any jury in KY would convict him based on the facts as reported.
Wouldn't be a big deal except he then ran around playing Santa Clause. haha,
could he tell them they have to now go retrieve all the money he "mistakenly" handed out to complete strangers? Not entirely sure what the difference is here.
But, as someone said above, it is comparable to a Bank and their discovering a proofing error. No way would you be allowed to keep that money.
I don't bet on horses so I'm not sure exactly how this works... but if you buy a $100 ticket at 37:1 (I assume that is calculated at the time of the bet) then there is also an 'odd' that he come in second... for sake of argument, let's say that is 28:1... so the bet should pay $2800 for every $100 bet, right? If they gave him $3500, then the terms of the contract were voided and they should be able to enforce the agreement. I understand that he probably didn't think about how much money he would make if he came in second, thus he had no reason to suspect it was wrong... but he should not be entitled to proceeds beyond the agreed contract.
If however, the payout on an already accepted bet changes as time goes on, then the better has absolutely no way of knowing what he should be due, nor any way to reasonably verify that the changes were accurate. In that event, all control is with the track and they should bear the cost of any mistakes. Should they have made a mistake in the opposite direction, who would have been in a position to challenge them?
In a sense, I see this like the legal idea that the person who writes the contract is presumed to be in far greater control than the person who merely agrees to it. If the terms were obvious and the math was clear, whether or not anyone engaged in calculating the math, then mistakes should be corrected. If the math was unclear, then the person calculating the math should NEVER be given the benefit of the doubt.
As a betting man...I believe in total transparency of the system. It can not survive without total straightforwardness. I have never been cheated in a casino and I don't cheat or welch on a bet. It is a matter of integrity with me. I can honestly say that I would return the money. In a nutshell...I did not win it and did not deserve it. It is like someone giving you too much change back. You lack integrity if you knowingly keep money. I'd be pissed...but....I believe in karma. What goes around..comes around. It is not worth my integrity.
(05-17-2014 09:47 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: [ -> ]As a betting man...I believe in total transparency of the system. It can not survive without total straightforwardness. I have never been cheated in a casino and I don't cheat or welch on a bet. It is a matter of integrity with me. I can honestly say that I would return the money. In a nutshell...I did not win it and did not deserve it. It is like someone giving you too much change back. You lack integrity if you knowingly keep money. I'd be pissed...but....I believe in karma. What goes around..comes around. It is not worth my integrity.
Sounds fair, but if they already spent or gave some of that money
away, not knowing it was received in error it becomes a bit difficult.
Reminds me of the woman that mysteriously had $50,000 deposited in her savings
account, when she question the bank teller and manager over that sum, they convinced
her it was her money, even signing a printout of her account balance indicating so.
A few weeks later the bank realized their error and asked for the money back…
but the woman had moved the $50,000 into a long term CD account at the same bank.
under the threat of prosecution the woman withdrew the funds and returned it to the bank
… but not before being charged a fee for early withdrawing the CD.
(05-17-2014 09:47 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: [ -> ]As a betting man...I believe in total transparency of the system. It can not survive without total straightforwardness. I have never been cheated in a casino and I don't cheat or welch on a bet. It is a matter of integrity with me. I can honestly say that I would return the money. In a nutshell...I did not win it and did not deserve it. It is like someone giving you too much change back. You lack integrity if you knowingly keep money. I'd be pissed...but....I believe in karma. What goes around..comes around. It is not worth my integrity.
I concur.
However, it is a pretty major inconvenience the track has caused with the error. So even though I think they should have their money returned, I also think they should willingly make some kind of offer to compensate for the trouble they caused.
Put it this way. If you somehow managed to under pay for losing a bet you would still owe the money to the casino or whatever business you were doing business with. So OTOH it's not unreasonable for the casino or business to get the money back if they over paid. It was a mistake, not an agreement.
(05-17-2014 10:27 AM)Stick4489 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-17-2014 09:47 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: [ -> ]As a betting man...I believe in total transparency of the system. It can not survive without total straightforwardness. I have never been cheated in a casino and I don't cheat or welch on a bet. It is a matter of integrity with me. I can honestly say that I would return the money. In a nutshell...I did not win it and did not deserve it. It is like someone giving you too much change back. You lack integrity if you knowingly keep money. I'd be pissed...but....I believe in karma. What goes around..comes around. It is not worth my integrity.
I concur.
However, it is a pretty major inconvenience the track has caused with the error. So even though I think they should have their money returned, I also think they should willingly make some kind of offer to compensate for the trouble they caused.
I think some type of deal could probably be reached to satisfy the track. I agree that they put this guy in a pickle. I think giving back what I have left would seem fair actually. Sounds as if he still has a large bit of it left.
(05-17-2014 10:53 AM)smn1256 Wrote: [ -> ]Put it this way. If you somehow managed to under pay for losing a bet you would still owe the money to the casino or whatever business you were doing business with. So OTOH it's not unreasonable for the casino or business to get the money back if they over paid. It was a mistake, not an agreement.
I think a lot of this involves knowledge of the mistake. Once it becomes knowledge...the integrity of everyone involved regardless of who made the mistake comes into play. I damn sure would test you in regard to doing the right thing. I don't pretend that it would be an easy decision.
(05-16-2014 10:31 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote: [ -> ]The house always wins. Always. There is no such thing as a "Bank Error In Your Favor" any longer.
Acutally, the house can claim that, but it doesn't work that way without a lawsuit Stanley.
If the house overpays you, you have to pay it back... It's the same principle on slot machines.. "voids/errors void all plays'. IT's written on pretty much ever slot machine, and it goes the same with pretty much any gambling establishment.
The House will "compensate" you by paying what you did win, when they could basically say, here's your bet money back, your bet doesnt' apply to either end.
How did they even know whom they paid the winnings to? Did they record the identity for tax purposes? So you need an ID to collect winnings?
They didn't pay out ONE bet wrong. If they had a problem, it impacted at the minimum all the winners on that bet.
It's why I don't go to the casinos.
(05-16-2014 11:20 AM)JMUDunk Wrote: [ -> ]Wouldn't be a big deal except he then ran around playing Santa Clause. haha,
could he tell them they have to now go retrieve all the money he "mistakenly" handed out to complete strangers? Not entirely sure what the difference is here.
But, as someone said above, it is comparable to a Bank and their discovering a proofing error. No way would you be allowed to keep that money.
Nor should you be allowed to.