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An article about our former associates. Louisville mentioned.


Big 12 commish: TCU, WVU have had moments in difficult transition

By David Ubben

ARLINGTON, Texas -- TCU won the Rose Bowl to close its 2010 season. West Virginia capped its 2011 campaign with an Orange Bowl rout and landed in the preseason top 10 for its inaugural Big 12 season.

Two years later, the Frogs and Mountaineers are picking up the pieces of twin 4-8 seasons. TCU was locked out of the postseason for the first time since 2004. WVU hadn't been left out of a bowl game since 2001.

"Their task is a little harder now than it was before. I think they've both seen it," Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby said Sunday. "They both came in with good football programs."

In basketball, West Virginia has yet to make the NCAA Tournament despite doing so in all five seasons under Bob Huggins in the Big East.

This year, TCU lost all 19 Big 12 games it played and went 2-17 in Year 1.

The new additions haven't made the transition as well as they would have liked, or the way Bowlsby would have, either.

"Our league is fast company. You're going to have to be pretty good in everything to compete," Bowlsby said. "I think they're in a transition period, but they've both been terrific members."

It's never a good sign when the commissioner has to cite women's soccer as evidence for your program's success in its new league, but Bowlsby did exactly that, recognizing the Mountaineers' regular season titles in the sport in each of its first two seasons.

"They've had their moments," Bowlsby said of the Mountaineers. "TCU has, too. I don't think Gary Patterson would say these last couple years have been his best teams, but when he had his best teams, he could certainly play with the best teams in our league."

While WVU and TCU floundered, Louisville captured a national title in basketball and beat Florida in the Orange Bowl at the end of the 2012 season. Some Big 12 members favored inviting the Cardinals to the league back in October 2011, but the Mountaineers ended up getting the final spot in the 10-team Big 12.

Bowlsby balked when asked if he thought the Big 12 whiffed on the decision.

"I wasn't involved in it, so I don't really have any perspective on it," he said.

Read the rest here: http://msn.foxsports.com/southwest/story...ion-040614

Big mistake taking WVU over Louisville in my opinion. It worked out well for Louisville though. I think the AAC is viewed above the Big 12 although they have good national teams like Texas and Oklahoma.

How is the AAC viewed above the B12? I love the AAC optimism but c'mon!

Gotta go with HartfordHusky on that one.

(04-22-2014 11:10 AM)HartfordHusky Wrote: [ -> ]How is the AAC viewed above the B12? I love the AAC optimism but c'mon!

Think he meant ACC.

People keep missing on the main thing when it comes to WVU vs. Louisville... Different conferences have different metrics and criteria when looking at potential additions. WVU simply fits the B12 metrics better than Louisville did. Look at it this way...
-The prototypical Big XII school was/is:
A State university (UT, OU, OSU, KU, KSU, ISU, TT, Mizzou*, CU*, NU*, TAMU*)
Located in a "College" town/city (Baylor, OU, OSU, KU, KSU, ISU, TTU, CU*, TAMU*) (I will leave off Austin and Lincoln because they are also State Capitals.
"Football First" schools (UT, OU, KSU, TT, Baylor, CU*, NU*, TAMU*) (OSU had Barry Sanders, but was more well known for their BB program)

WVU "fits" all of these categories. WVU is a State "Flagship" University, located in a quintessential "University Town" (Morgantown), and is known first and foremost for CFB. That's not a slam against Louisville, but Louisville was a lesser fit for what the B12 was looking for.

Not only that, I believe the B12 was basically counting on the fact that Louisville would be there for a later addition. It was a serious mis-calculation, but nobody really saw the ACC adding Louisville at that moment. I think the B12 was thinking that they could come back and add Louisville and one more team when all the dust settled. But of course that's not the way it shook out.

(And yes, I understand that Louisville is a public/state university, but that's not what immediately jumps to mind when you consider UL...)

If this autonomy agenda is rammed through, at least they made it to the good side of the divide. So disgusted right now.

WVU has struggled in football not because of increased competition (it is a small factor), but because they had a down cycle in talent and experience. In 2012 (year 1 in the B12) they had a good offense but lost a lot from their 2011 squad. Last year they had a very young, inexperienced offense due to all of the defections. They will eventually get it going again... they might need a different coach... but they will get there.

(04-22-2014 11:13 AM)Indiana Bones Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-22-2014 11:10 AM)HartfordHusky Wrote: [ -> ]How is the AAC viewed above the B12? I love the AAC optimism but c'mon!

Think he meant ACC.

Sorry - ACC

Part of the reason that WVU is having trouble is that Dana Holgorsen is being exposed for being the mediocre coach that he is. A vintage WVU team under Rich Rod would have fit right in and competed in the Big 12.

(04-22-2014 11:24 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote: [ -> ]People keep missing on the main thing when it comes to WVU vs. Louisville... Different conferences have different metrics and criteria when looking at potential additions. WVU simply fits the B12 metrics better than Louisville did. Look at it this way...
-The prototypical Big XII school was/is:
A State university (UT, OU, OSU, KU, KSU, ISU, TT, Mizzou*, CU*, NU*, TAMU*)
Located in a "College" town/city (Baylor, OU, OSU, KU, KSU, ISU, TTU, CU*, TAMU*) (I will leave off Austin and Lincoln because they are also State Capitals.
"Football First" schools (UT, OU, KSU, TT, Baylor, CU*, NU*, TAMU*) (OSU had Barry Sanders, but was more well known for their BB program)

WVU "fits" all of these categories. WVU is a State "Flagship" University, located in a quintessential "University Town" (Morgantown), and is known first and foremost for CFB. That's not a slam against Louisville, but Louisville was a lesser fit for what the B12 was looking for.

Not only that, I believe the B12 was basically counting on the fact that Louisville would be there for a later addition. It was a serious mis-calculation, but nobody really saw the ACC adding Louisville at that moment. I think the B12 was thinking that they could come back and add Louisville and one more team when all the dust settled. But of course that's not the way it shook out.

(And yes, I understand that Louisville is a public/state university, but that's not what immediately jumps to mind when you consider UL...)

Excellent analysis.

Plus, at the time TCU and WVU were added, the Big 12 had lost a lot of football fire-power to raids, and felt it badly needed to shore up its football more than anything. At the time, WVU and TCU both had better football than Louisville.

(04-22-2014 11:00 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote: [ -> ]Big mistake taking WVU over Louisville in my opinion. It worked out well for Louisville though. I think the AAC is viewed above the Big 12 although they have good national teams like Texas and Oklahoma.

What in the world are you drinking and smoking at ten o'clock am. Nobody outside of the newbies in this league even think about the powerhouse that the aac is not. LOL!

(04-22-2014 02:03 PM)redbirdTD Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-22-2014 11:00 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote: [ -> ]Big mistake taking WVU over Louisville in my opinion. It worked out well for Louisville though. I think the AAC is viewed above the Big 12 although they have good national teams like Texas and Oklahoma.

What in the world are you drinking and smoking at ten o'clock am. Nobody outside of the newbies in this league even think about the powerhouse that the aac is not. LOL!

Context clues > you

(04-22-2014 02:03 PM)redbirdTD Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-22-2014 11:00 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote: [ -> ]Big mistake taking WVU over Louisville in my opinion. It worked out well for Louisville though. I think the AAC is viewed above the Big 12 although they have good national teams like Texas and Oklahoma.

What in the world are you drinking and smoking at ten o'clock am. Nobody outside of the newbies in this league even think about the powerhouse that the aac is not. LOL!

Was that even a sentence after the first period? While factually the AAC did out perform all p-5 conferences in year one, perception is indeed another matter, however, you can only pull the wool over average joe-fan for only so long. Sooner or later the metric for p-5 conferences will be performance, not money, and then the separation between the AAC and p-5 conferences will be minimal.

WVU sold out all of their fans by joining theBig 12. Karma is a *****. They suck now in bball and their once competitive football program sucks. Not to mention the kissing cousins jokes that the school has to contend with

Too much inhaling of

WVA is laughing all the way to the bank....I wish we had their "problems".

(04-22-2014 02:56 PM)NestaKnight1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-22-2014 02:03 PM)redbirdTD Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-22-2014 11:00 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote: [ -> ]Big mistake taking WVU over Louisville in my opinion. It worked out well for Louisville though. I think the AAC is viewed above the Big 12 although they have good national teams like Texas and Oklahoma.

What in the world are you drinking and smoking at ten o'clock am. Nobody outside of the newbies in this league even think about the powerhouse that the aac is not. LOL!

Was that even a sentence after the first period? While factually the AAC did out perform all p-5 conferences in year one

By Sagarin and RPI, we were the #7 basketball conference and #6 football conference. Don't make the mistake of thinking a single win by UCF over Baylor means our football was anything but bad, or that UConn's run changes the fact that overall, we were lousy OOC in basketball for most of the year.

(04-22-2014 05:28 PM)quo vadis Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-22-2014 02:56 PM)NestaKnight1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-22-2014 02:03 PM)redbirdTD Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-22-2014 11:00 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote: [ -> ]Big mistake taking WVU over Louisville in my opinion. It worked out well for Louisville though. I think the AAC is viewed above the Big 12 although they have good national teams like Texas and Oklahoma.

What in the world are you drinking and smoking at ten o'clock am. Nobody outside of the newbies in this league even think about the powerhouse that the aac is not. LOL!

Was that even a sentence after the first period? While factually the AAC did out perform all p-5 conferences in year one

We were the #7 basketball conference and #6 football conference.

dude...they don't get it. They think a BCS win and some ncaa tourney bids makes us P5 material. Nevermind our tv contract is mickey mouse (which is exactly how our conference/teams are viewed nationally) and never mind our bowl lineup is total garbage, and never mind every school in this POS conference would take an invite into one of the P5 conferences in a ny minute.

(04-22-2014 05:32 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-22-2014 05:28 PM)quo vadis Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-22-2014 02:56 PM)NestaKnight1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-22-2014 02:03 PM)redbirdTD Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-22-2014 11:00 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote: [ -> ]Big mistake taking WVU over Louisville in my opinion. It worked out well for Louisville though. I think the AAC is viewed above the Big 12 although they have good national teams like Texas and Oklahoma.

What in the world are you drinking and smoking at ten o'clock am. Nobody outside of the newbies in this league even think about the powerhouse that the aac is not. LOL!

Was that even a sentence after the first period? While factually the AAC did out perform all p-5 conferences in year one

We were the #7 basketball conference and #6 football conference.

dude...they don't get it. They think a BCS win and some ncaa tourney bids makes us P5 material. Nevermind our tv contract is mickey mouse (which is exactly how our conference/teams are viewed nationally) and never mind our bowl lineup is total garbage, and never mind every school in this POS conference would take an invite into one of the P5 conferences in a ny minute.

Yes, the denial and wishful thinking around here is sometimes pretty astonishing.