CSNbbs

Possible move to 9 game schedule is on the agenda for a meeting next month.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca...s/7973285/

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/...otbal.html

If the SEC makes the move, I'm not sure how the ACC could stand alone at 8. Among other things, SEC members would likely limit their OOC schedules to one P5 opponent. It would be virtually impossible for the ACC members to find 2 annual P5 OOC opponents.

However, according to the AL.com article:

"The SEC could also look at using an eight-plus-one format with eight conferences games and rotating non-conference games against a league such as the ACC in the future. The ACC has discussed the possibility as well."

I'm guessing the rotating non-conference game scenario will win out in the end.

(04-21-2014 07:47 PM)orangefan Wrote: [ -> ]Possible move to 9 game schedule is on the agenda for a meeting next month.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca...s/7973285/

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/...otbal.html

If the SEC makes the move, I'm not sure how the ACC could stand alone at 8. Among other things, SEC members would likely limit their OOC schedules to one P5 opponent. It would be virtually impossible for the ACC members to find 2 annual P5 OOC opponents.

I am.

(04-21-2014 07:47 PM)orangefan Wrote: [ -> ]However, according to the AL.com article:

"The SEC could also look at using an eight-plus-one format with eight conferences games and rotating non-conference games against a league such as the ACC in the future. The ACC has discussed the possibility as well."

That's more like it.

We already have ND filling some of those holes.

i would imagine that for the 8+ scenario, the sec probably wouldn't apply it to south carolina, georgia, kentucky, or florida (if fsu is a regular opponent, i haven't paid much attention to either of those teams).

just my thought, but i would imagine that 12 or 13 of the sec teams would probably be in favor of staying at 8 games because of that schedule flexibility. i don't see them all playing acc teams though. i can see some of the midpack sec schools playing B1G or big xii schools. kentucky probably would be for 9 just so they get out of playing louisville.

(04-22-2014 07:16 AM)ctkatz Wrote: [ -> ]i would imagine that for the 8+ scenario, the sec probably wouldn't apply it to south carolina, georgia, kentucky, or florida (if fsu is a regular opponent, i haven't paid much attention to either of those teams).

just my thought, but i would imagine that 12 or 13 of the sec teams would probably be in favor of staying at 8 games because of that schedule flexibility. i don't see them all playing acc teams though. i can see some of the midpack sec schools playing B1G or big xii schools. kentucky probably would be for 9 just so they get out of playing louisville.

Kentucky isn't going to be able to weasel their way out of it that easily.

(04-22-2014 08:03 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-22-2014 07:16 AM)ctkatz Wrote: [ -> ]i would imagine that for the 8+ scenario, the sec probably wouldn't apply it to south carolina, georgia, kentucky, or florida (if fsu is a regular opponent, i haven't paid much attention to either of those teams).

just my thought, but i would imagine that 12 or 13 of the sec teams would probably be in favor of staying at 8 games because of that schedule flexibility. i don't see them all playing acc teams though. i can see some of the midpack sec schools playing B1G or big xii schools. kentucky probably would be for 9 just so they get out of playing louisville.

Kentucky isn't going to be able to weasel their way out of it that easily.

The SEC made them move the Louisville-Kentucky game to the Final Game of the year....it now appears to be over their heads...

(04-21-2014 07:47 PM)orangefan Wrote: [ -> ]Possible move to 9 game schedule is on the agenda for a meeting next month.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca...s/7973285/

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/...otbal.html

If the SEC makes the move, I'm not sure how the ACC could stand alone at 8. Among other things, SEC members would likely limit their OOC schedules to one P5 opponent. It would be virtually impossible for the ACC members to find 2 annual P5 OOC opponents.

However, according to the AL.com article:

"The SEC could also look at using an eight-plus-one format with eight conferences games and rotating non-conference games against a league such as the ACC in the future. The ACC has discussed the possibility as well."

Not counting games against Notre Dame and FCS opponents, the ACC schools would need to schedule 37 OOC games a year. There is no rule requiring that each school has to play 2 P5 opponents OOC every year. They haven't in the past.

Typically in the past, ACC schools scheduled teams from the B1G, the SEC and the Big East more often than the other BCS conferences. Obviously, that pool has shrunk with some of those schools joining the ACC. But I suspect over time schools like Rutgers and Maryland will want to resume playing some of their former league mates. And some of the teams left behind in the AAC will want to continue to schedule ACC opponents OOC.

The schools that will want to schedule 2 P5 opponents as a means of strengthening their schedule for playoff consideration will have no trouble finding them.

So I'm assuming the ncaa will give an opinion on the divsions before all ot this?

(04-22-2014 09:44 AM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote: [ -> ]So I'm assuming the ncaa will give an opinion on the divsions before all ot this?

I'm guessing the SEC isn't waiting on the NCAA, because they have decided that the P5 are going to do what they want to do, with or without the NCAA's approval. I'm guessing that the SEC is right about that.

(04-22-2014 07:16 AM)ctkatz Wrote: [ -> ]i would imagine that for the 8+ scenario, the sec probably wouldn't apply it to south carolina, georgia, kentucky, or florida (if fsu is a regular opponent, i haven't paid much attention to either of those teams).

just my thought, but i would imagine that 12 or 13 of the sec teams would probably be in favor of staying at 8 games because of that schedule flexibility. i don't see them all playing acc teams though. i can see some of the midpack sec schools playing B1G or big xii schools. kentucky probably would be for 9 just so they get out of playing louisville.

I think that there is a lot of truth to this. When it comes to SOS, there appears to be a certain "I gave at the office" mentality among SEC schools, i.e., they play such a tough conference schedule that (with limited exceptions) there is no good reason to schedule 2 P5 opponents OOC. Given that mentality, it is hard to see how enough votes could be lined up to approve 9 conference games. It is possible that the vote has been arranged to put the question to bed for now. Alternatively, though, ESPN could be pushing them to go to 9, possibly by providing projections on the impact this might have on the value of the SECN.

(04-22-2014 09:18 AM)ken d Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-21-2014 07:47 PM)orangefan Wrote: [ -> ]Possible move to 9 game schedule is on the agenda for a meeting next month.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca...s/7973285/

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/...otbal.html

If the SEC makes the move, I'm not sure how the ACC could stand alone at 8. Among other things, SEC members would likely limit their OOC schedules to one P5 opponent. It would be virtually impossible for the ACC members to find 2 annual P5 OOC opponents.

However, according to the AL.com article:

"The SEC could also look at using an eight-plus-one format with eight conferences games and rotating non-conference games against a league such as the ACC in the future. The ACC has discussed the possibility as well."

Not counting games against Notre Dame and FCS opponents, the ACC schools would need to schedule 37 OOC games a year. There is no rule requiring that each school has to play 2 P5 opponents OOC every year. They haven't in the past.

Typically in the past, ACC schools scheduled teams from the B1G, the SEC and the Big East more often than the other BCS conferences. Obviously, that pool has shrunk with some of those schools joining the ACC. But I suspect over time schools like Rutgers and Maryland will want to resume playing some of their former league mates. And some of the teams left behind in the AAC will want to continue to schedule ACC opponents OOC.

The schools that will want to schedule 2 P5 opponents as a means of strengthening their schedule for playoff consideration will have no trouble finding them.

If all of the other P5 conferences go to 9 conference games, it would arguably be necessary to schedule 2 P5 opponents each to match the SOS, and I think it would be very tough to do so. As an alternative, though, teams with only one P5 opponent could avoid scheduling an FCS opponent. That would boost SOS on the other side of the equation. I note, though, that the B1G is already doing this in addition to going to 9 conference games to boost their SOS. To maximize the benefit of this, it would be necessary to schedule "good" G5 opponents, presumably from the American and MWC, who would likely demand home and homes.

You don't need to boost your SOS to go to the Chick-fil-A Bowl or the Music City Bowl. You just need W's.

Adding a ninth conference game doesn't boost your SOS, either, if the league opponent you add is a weak sister. As a practical matter, SOS only really matters to about a third of the P5.

(04-22-2014 02:49 PM)ken d Wrote: [ -> ]You don't need to boost your SOS to go to the Chick-fil-A Bowl or the Music City Bowl. You just need W's.

Adding a ninth conference game doesn't boost your SOS, either, if the league opponent you add is a weak sister. As a practical matter, SOS only really matters to about a third of the P5.

SOS is generally measured by calculating the cumulative won/loss records of a school's opponents and the cumulative won/loss records of a school's opponents' opponents. The formula is usually weighted more heavily for opponent's records (e.g., 2/3's) with the rest for the opponents' opponents record (e.g., 1/3).

To boost SOS, you need your opponents to beat someone (first component - opponents' record), preferably somebody with a decent record (second component - opponents' opponents record). I assume FBS SOS calculations ignore records against FCS schools. Preferably, you want your opponents to play the best possible schools that they have a good chance of beating.

On average, an extra conference game would be against an average conference opponent maybe 4-4 in conference, 7-5 overall (or 6-6 with no FCS). Assuming everyone plays half decent OOC opponents, going to 9 games should generally improve everybody's SOS.

It remains to be seen how strongly the CFP selection committee will apply SOS. I note that the American really got hammered by the NCAA Tournament Selection Committee this past year (SMU left out, poor seeding for UL) due to particularly weak SOS. If the CFP committee applies it the same way, conferences with weak overall SOS could miss out on playoff invites.

(04-22-2014 04:33 PM)orangefan Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-22-2014 02:49 PM)ken d Wrote: [ -> ]You don't need to boost your SOS to go to the Chick-fil-A Bowl or the Music City Bowl. You just need W's.

Adding a ninth conference game doesn't boost your SOS, either, if the league opponent you add is a weak sister. As a practical matter, SOS only really matters to about a third of the P5.

SOS is generally measured by calculating the cumulative won/loss records of a school's opponents and the cumulative won/loss records of a school's opponents' opponents. The formula is usually weighted more heavily for opponent's records (e.g., 2/3's) with the rest for the opponents' opponents record (e.g., 1/3).

To boost SOS, you need your opponents to beat someone (first component - opponents' record), preferably somebody with a decent record (second component - opponents' opponents record). I assume FBS SOS calculations ignore records against FCS schools. Preferably, you want your opponents to play the best possible schools that they have a good chance of beating.

On average, an extra conference game would be against an average conference opponent maybe 4-4 in conference, 7-5 overall (or 6-6 with no FCS). Assuming everyone plays half decent OOC opponents, going to 9 games should generally improve everybody's SOS.

It remains to be seen how strongly the CFP selection committee will apply SOS. I note that the American really got hammered by the NCAA Tournament Selection Committee this past year (SMU left out, poor seeding for UL) due to particularly weak SOS. If the CFP committee applies it the same way, conferences with weak overall SOS could miss out on playoff invites.

Mathematically, that is NOT the best way to compute SoS. However, if the selection committee really does use that formula, then what is needed is more WINS for the rest of the ACC teams (which do not have realistic championship aspirations). When the bottom half of the ACC plays a schedule which is too tough, it kills the primary component of SoS - there is no point in worrying about the secondary!

The ACC cannot be the only P5 conference playing 8 games. They would have to schedule two P5 ooc games to match the rest of the p5 and there aren't that many games available. I don't think we can get by with 8 games as it is. We aren't the SEC, we won't be given the benefit of the doubt. When the 9 game schedule kicks in for the B10 we'll start to feel it in playoff selection. The SEC will get a pass and the ACC will stick out as the weakest schedule.

(04-22-2014 04:59 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-22-2014 04:33 PM)orangefan Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-22-2014 02:49 PM)ken d Wrote: [ -> ]You don't need to boost your SOS to go to the Chick-fil-A Bowl or the Music City Bowl. You just need W's.

Adding a ninth conference game doesn't boost your SOS, either, if the league opponent you add is a weak sister. As a practical matter, SOS only really matters to about a third of the P5.

SOS is generally measured by calculating the cumulative won/loss records of a school's opponents and the cumulative won/loss records of a school's opponents' opponents. The formula is usually weighted more heavily for opponent's records (e.g., 2/3's) with the rest for the opponents' opponents record (e.g., 1/3).

To boost SOS, you need your opponents to beat someone (first component - opponents' record), preferably somebody with a decent record (second component - opponents' opponents record). I assume FBS SOS calculations ignore records against FCS schools. Preferably, you want your opponents to play the best possible schools that they have a good chance of beating.

On average, an extra conference game would be against an average conference opponent maybe 4-4 in conference, 7-5 overall (or 6-6 with no FCS). Assuming everyone plays half decent OOC opponents, going to 9 games should generally improve everybody's SOS.

It remains to be seen how strongly the CFP selection committee will apply SOS. I note that the American really got hammered by the NCAA Tournament Selection Committee this past year (SMU left out, poor seeding for UL) due to particularly weak SOS. If the CFP committee applies it the same way, conferences with weak overall SOS could miss out on playoff invites.

Mathematically, that is NOT the best way to compute SoS. However, if the selection committee really does use that formula, then what is needed is more WINS for the rest of the ACC teams (which do not have realistic championship aspirations). When the bottom half of the ACC plays a schedule which is too tough, it kills the primary component of SoS - there is no point in worrying about the secondary!

Exactly. As long as the top teams like FSU, Clemson, VT and Miami have a decent schedule, their SOS will benefit most by having every other school win as many games as possible. You aren't going to see the B1G stop playing so many MAC schools for the same reason. In the long run it's a lot better to beat decent teams than lose to great ones.

Schools like UNC, NC State, Pitt and all the other schools squarely in the middle of the ACC pack aren't going to be seriously competing for a four school playoff. Why should they also risk their bowl eligibility?

(04-22-2014 05:38 PM)4x4hokies Wrote: [ -> ]The ACC cannot be the only P5 conference playing 8 games. They would have to schedule two P5 ooc games to match the rest of the p5 and there aren't that many games available. I don't think we can get by with 8 games as it is. We aren't the SEC, we won't be given the benefit of the doubt. When the 9 game schedule kicks in for the B10 we'll start to feel it in playoff selection. The SEC will get a pass and the ACC will stick out as the weakest schedule.

We don't get the benefit of the doubt because the conference as a whole is weak in football. So explain to me exactly how it is better for us to play an additional game against a conference team who is already perceived as weak competition is going to change that.

I don't think it is a wise move for the ACC to line up against the SEC and play it like the ACC-B1G Challenge. Clemson has a deep losing streak to the Chickens. GT has a VERY deep losing streak to the leg humpers. Wake has a deep losing streak to Vandy. GT lost to Ole Miss in the bowl. The ACC is 1-5 in the CFA Kickoff Classic, with Clemson/NCST/VT/UNC all racking up loses. The sole win was #14 Clemson, by 7, over unranked Auburn who went on to finish the season 3-9. The Duke-Alabama series was a laughing stock that saw 20,000 Alabama fans turn Durham into a home game.












The sole exception is FSU over Florida. And Louisville over the worst team in the SEC (for some time now) in Kentucky.

If you're going to schedule the SEC, for heavens sake pick on the soft middle. GT won 2 of 2 from Auburn under Gailey. GT won 2 of 2 from Vandy under Gailey. GT won 2 of 2 from Mississippi State under PJ. And Ole Miss panicked after '09 and delayed the series by nearly a decade. Even Wake took 2 of 2 from Ole Miss and a bunch from Vandy before James Franklin showed up.

Since expansion the ACC is 30-54 against the SEC. (6 wins by FSU, 5 wins by GT, 10 wins by Clemson).

All teams with in-state rivals have losing records against those rivals since expansion. (Didn't check Louisville) GT's record is bad enough to make you wonder why they should even bother with the series any more. There is a similar losing record in bowl games despite the ACC having a higher finishing team matched up against a lower finishing SEC team in the bowls they face each other (Music City, Chic-Fil-A) and the SEC having everybody slide up a spot as they have a BCS at-large every year and the ACC has only had an at-large the last 2/3 years.

How many times do you guys want to line up and lose against an opponent who has WAY more money to spend than you every year, gives zero f***s about recruiting rules, is willing to accept NCAA minimums for admissions, and is willing to then find worthless majors for those players to hide in for their entire academic "career"? For heavens sake FSU's DC off a national championship team went LATERALLY to UGAg because they threw money at him until he said yes. Let me say that again. FSU's DC could be persuaded to move from a national championship team, head and shoulders better than the rest of the ACC, to the SAME position ... at maybe the 5th/6th/7th best team in the SEC.

Folks the table is simply FAR too tilted to bother trying. Haven't you had enough futility, ESPN fondling, and SEC chants from Wal-Mart retards? We can re-evaluate this if the ACC network becomes a cash cow that levels the playing field. But right now ... how about we as a conference stop scheduling the top half of the SEC. Strength of schedule really doesn't matter even with a playoff. The SEC and various other programs (Kansas State) have made a killing off cupcakes, and nobody pays enough attention to call them on it.

(04-23-2014 01:44 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think it is a wise move for the ACC to line up against the SEC and play it like the ACC-B1G Challenge. Clemson has a [5-game] losing streak to the Chickens. GT has a [5-game] losing streak to the leg humpers [and only 1 win out of the last 13]. Wake has a [3-game] losing streak to Vandy. GT lost to Ole Miss in the bowl. The ACC is 1-5 in the CFA Kickoff Classic, with Clemson/NCST/VT/UNC all racking up loses. The sole win was #14 Clemson, by 7, over unranked Auburn who went on to finish the season 3-9...

(04-23-2014 01:44 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote: [ -> ]The sole exception is FSU over Florida [FSU has won 3 of the last 4; prior to that UF won 6 in a row]. And Louisville over the worst team in the SEC (for some time now) in Kentucky [UL has won 10 of the last 15].

(04-23-2014 01:44 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote: [ -> ]If you're going to schedule the SEC, for heavens sake pick on the soft middle. GT won 2 of 2 from Auburn under Gailey. GT won 2 of 2 from Vandy under Gailey. GT won 2 of 2 from Mississippi State under PJ. And Ole Miss panicked after '09 and delayed the series by nearly a decade. Even Wake took 2 of 2 from Ole Miss and a bunch from Vandy before James Franklin showed up.

Since expansion the ACC is 30-54 against the SEC. (6 wins by FSU, 5 wins by GT, 10 wins by Clemson).

(04-23-2014 01:44 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote: [ -> ]... how about we as a conference stop scheduling the top half of the SEC.

I agree on one thing: STOP scheduling Alabama! GT mentions the Chick-Fil-A Kickoff losses. What he doesn't mention is that they were all against Alabama [Clemson, VT 2x] except two:
* after scandal first broke and half of the starters were suspended for this game, UNC barely lost to LSU
* NC State went full-retard in losing to Tennessee

As I've pointed out before, the ACC does fine (historically) against every SEC team except 2: Alabama and LSU. Lately the gap with LSU has closed, but even other SEC teams don't beat Alabama so what makes ACC teams think they can do it - I don't know!

I say keep playing the SEC, but be smarter about it. And don't blow big leads against your in-state rival.

The best thing is a lot of the big schools will find it hard to keep 7 home games every year, and some bowl spot will get opened up for Gang schools, as mid level P schools can't get that 6th win.