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Obammy has been sitting on permits to build 25 LNG export terminals. Should these be brought on-line, the US will be able to ship LNG to Europe to undermine the need for Russian gas.

It may be too late to do anything for the Ukraine but if that is the excuse for not building, then the next crisis it will be too late again. If the administration had a strategic view, and wasn't addicted to the money of billionaires like Tom Steyer, maybe they'd consider the best intersts of the world and our economy.

Read a thorough discussion:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10...reno64-wsj
(03-20-2014 08:01 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote: [ -> ]Obammy has been sitting on permits to build 25 LNG export terminals. Should these be brought on-line, the US will be able to ship LNG to Europe to undermine the need for Russian gas.

It may be too late to do anything for the Ukraine but if that is the excuse for not building, then the next crisis it will be too late again. If the administration had a strategic view, and wasn't addicted to the money of billionaires like Tom Steyer, maybe they'd consider the best intersts of the world and our economy.

Read a thorough discussion:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10...reno64-wsj

It's the envirowackos that the POTUS sides with that will keep this from happening. Heck, even if he agreed it would take years to get the export terminals functional.
This will increase the domestic cost of natural gas, possibly by a lot. NG on the international market goes for significantly more than it does on the domestic market.

Large companies, especially in manufacturing, are lobbying against these facilities because many of them expanded or moved operations to America because they thought our cheap natural gas prices would give them a competitive advantage vs. where their other options.

Environmental groups don't want to see them either, but to pin it solely on them is to be ignorant of the facts. There are very real economic repercussions for people here in America to opening our NG supply to the world. Landowners, gas companies, and a handful of other industries stand to benefit while a lot of others stand to be negatively impacted.
(03-20-2014 08:52 AM)Niner National Wrote: [ -> ]This will increase the domestic cost of natural gas, possibly by a lot. NG on the international market goes for significantly more than it does on the domestic market.

Large companies, especially in manufacturing, are lobbying against these facilities because many of them expanded or moved operations to America because they thought our cheap natural gas prices would give them a competitive advantage vs. where their other options.

Environmental groups don't want to see them either, but to pin it solely on them is to be ignorant of the facts. There are very real economic repercussions for people here in America to opening our NG supply to the world. Landowners, gas companies, and a handful of other industries stand to benefit while a lot of others stand to be negatively impacted.

So we are assuming selling more internationally would reduce the amount sold in the US? Is that what would drive the price up domestically?
(03-20-2014 08:52 AM)Niner National Wrote: [ -> ]This will increase the domestic cost of natural gas, possibly by a lot. NG on the international market goes for significantly more than it does on the domestic market.

Large companies, especially in manufacturing, are lobbying against these facilities because many of them expanded or moved operations to America because they thought our cheap natural gas prices would give them a competitive advantage vs. where their other options.

Environmental groups don't want to see them either, but to pin it solely on them is to be ignorant of the facts. There are very real economic repercussions for people here in America to opening our NG supply to the world. Landowners, gas companies, and a handful of other industries stand to benefit while a lot of others stand to be negatively impacted.

You have to look beyond the price of natural gas here. This is a bigger issue.

Yet the basic supply issue is not beyond relief either. Andy Cuomo will not approve drilling for NG in New York State. There is as much reserves in the Marcellus shale under NY as there are in PA and ND.
(03-20-2014 08:12 AM)VA49er Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 08:01 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote: [ -> ]Obammy has been sitting on permits to build 25 LNG export terminals. Should these be brought on-line, the US will be able to ship LNG to Europe to undermine the need for Russian gas.

It may be too late to do anything for the Ukraine but if that is the excuse for not building, then the next crisis it will be too late again. If the administration had a strategic view, and wasn't addicted to the money of billionaires like Tom Steyer, maybe they'd consider the best intersts of the world and our economy.

Read a thorough discussion:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10...reno64-wsj

It's the envirowackos that the POTUS sides with that will keep this from happening. Heck, even if he agreed it would take years to get the export terminals functional.

That's not an effective excuse. We'll still have this or other problems in the future if we don't do something now.
(03-20-2014 09:14 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 08:12 AM)VA49er Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 08:01 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote: [ -> ]Obammy has been sitting on permits to build 25 LNG export terminals. Should these be brought on-line, the US will be able to ship LNG to Europe to undermine the need for Russian gas.

It may be too late to do anything for the Ukraine but if that is the excuse for not building, then the next crisis it will be too late again. If the administration had a strategic view, and wasn't addicted to the money of billionaires like Tom Steyer, maybe they'd consider the best intersts of the world and our economy.

Read a thorough discussion:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10...reno64-wsj

It's the envirowackos that the POTUS sides with that will keep this from happening. Heck, even if he agreed it would take years to get the export terminals functional.

That's not an effective excuse. We'll still have this or other problems in the future if we don't do something now.

Oh I know, but it is the reality concerning any potential Russian moves in the not to distant future.
(03-20-2014 09:12 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 08:52 AM)Niner National Wrote: [ -> ]This will increase the domestic cost of natural gas, possibly by a lot. NG on the international market goes for significantly more than it does on the domestic market.

Large companies, especially in manufacturing, are lobbying against these facilities because many of them expanded or moved operations to America because they thought our cheap natural gas prices would give them a competitive advantage vs. where their other options.

Environmental groups don't want to see them either, but to pin it solely on them is to be ignorant of the facts. There are very real economic repercussions for people here in America to opening our NG supply to the world. Landowners, gas companies, and a handful of other industries stand to benefit while a lot of others stand to be negatively impacted.

You have to look beyond the price of natural gas here. This is a bigger issue.

Exactly. You need to be able to blame Obammy for something.
(03-20-2014 09:23 AM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 09:12 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 08:52 AM)Niner National Wrote: [ -> ]This will increase the domestic cost of natural gas, possibly by a lot. NG on the international market goes for significantly more than it does on the domestic market.

Large companies, especially in manufacturing, are lobbying against these facilities because many of them expanded or moved operations to America because they thought our cheap natural gas prices would give them a competitive advantage vs. where their other options.

Environmental groups don't want to see them either, but to pin it solely on them is to be ignorant of the facts. There are very real economic repercussions for people here in America to opening our NG supply to the world. Landowners, gas companies, and a handful of other industries stand to benefit while a lot of others stand to be negatively impacted.

You have to look beyond the price of natural gas here. This is a bigger issue.

Exactly. You need to be able to blame Obammy for something.

Nah, he's earned enough of that to last a while.
(03-20-2014 09:05 AM)VA49er Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 08:52 AM)Niner National Wrote: [ -> ]This will increase the domestic cost of natural gas, possibly by a lot. NG on the international market goes for significantly more than it does on the domestic market.

Large companies, especially in manufacturing, are lobbying against these facilities because many of them expanded or moved operations to America because they thought our cheap natural gas prices would give them a competitive advantage vs. where their other options.

Environmental groups don't want to see them either, but to pin it solely on them is to be ignorant of the facts. There are very real economic repercussions for people here in America to opening our NG supply to the world. Landowners, gas companies, and a handful of other industries stand to benefit while a lot of others stand to be negatively impacted.

So we are assuming selling more internationally would reduce the amount sold in the US? Is that what would drive the price up domestically?
No, we have plenty of gas. So much so that we are literally burning off excess gas right now because we're producing more than we need with nowhere to store or sell it.

The price would increase because the world market price is much higher and a NG producer is obviously going to want to get as much for their gas as possible, so they're going to support opening U.S. natural gas markets up to the world market. Right now our gas is confined to the domestic market due to lack of export facilities.

U.S. gas flooding the market would likely drive down world market prices, but not to the levels that the U.S. enjoys today.

The result of higher NG prices would be higher electricity and heating costs for everyone.

U.S. utilities have gone all in on building natural gas power plants, so the impact to Americans could be tremendous as these facilities were built at great expense and expected to last for decades. They're not going to simply shut them down if NG becomes more expensive. Ratepayers will ultimately pay, many times over. More for the power itself and then more to buy goods in the retail market as production costs will have increased.

If Europe wants cheap natural gas, but doesn't want to buy it from Russia, let them remove their fracking bans. They can use and pollute their own water supplies.
(03-20-2014 09:40 AM)VA49er Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 09:23 AM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 09:12 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 08:52 AM)Niner National Wrote: [ -> ]This will increase the domestic cost of natural gas, possibly by a lot. NG on the international market goes for significantly more than it does on the domestic market.

Large companies, especially in manufacturing, are lobbying against these facilities because many of them expanded or moved operations to America because they thought our cheap natural gas prices would give them a competitive advantage vs. where their other options.

Environmental groups don't want to see them either, but to pin it solely on them is to be ignorant of the facts. There are very real economic repercussions for people here in America to opening our NG supply to the world. Landowners, gas companies, and a handful of other industries stand to benefit while a lot of others stand to be negatively impacted.

You have to look beyond the price of natural gas here. This is a bigger issue.

Exactly. You need to be able to blame Obammy for something.

Nah, he's earned enough of that to last a while.

Yet you guys continually look ad nauseum to find something else to trot out. I hear he slept last night. I don't think he has time to do that with all the problems in the world. 03-yawn
(03-20-2014 09:46 AM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 09:40 AM)VA49er Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 09:23 AM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 09:12 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 08:52 AM)Niner National Wrote: [ -> ]This will increase the domestic cost of natural gas, possibly by a lot. NG on the international market goes for significantly more than it does on the domestic market.

Large companies, especially in manufacturing, are lobbying against these facilities because many of them expanded or moved operations to America because they thought our cheap natural gas prices would give them a competitive advantage vs. where their other options.

Environmental groups don't want to see them either, but to pin it solely on them is to be ignorant of the facts. There are very real economic repercussions for people here in America to opening our NG supply to the world. Landowners, gas companies, and a handful of other industries stand to benefit while a lot of others stand to be negatively impacted.

You have to look beyond the price of natural gas here. This is a bigger issue.

Exactly. You need to be able to blame Obammy for something.

Nah, he's earned enough of that to last a while.

Yet you guys continually look ad nauseum to find something else to trot out. I hear he slept last night. I don't think he has time to do that with all the problems in the world. 03-yawn


People have short memories. Bush received the same, if not more, critcisim during his presidency. It comes with the job title. At least all those that opposed Bush weren't called racists, so that was different.
More revisionist history. Bush got nowhere near the crap Obama is getting.

And even if he did, aren't conservatives supposed to be above two wrongs making a right?

Yes...Bush got derided for his vacations...but at least they were happening at an unprecented rate. Now you guys always trot out the line that they were working vacations. But Obama's aren't? C'mon...you're not that stupid. Every president is moments away from the means to make executive decisions 24x7x365.
(03-20-2014 09:45 AM)Niner National Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 09:05 AM)VA49er Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 08:52 AM)Niner National Wrote: [ -> ]This will increase the domestic cost of natural gas, possibly by a lot. NG on the international market goes for significantly more than it does on the domestic market.

Large companies, especially in manufacturing, are lobbying against these facilities because many of them expanded or moved operations to America because they thought our cheap natural gas prices would give them a competitive advantage vs. where their other options.

Environmental groups don't want to see them either, but to pin it solely on them is to be ignorant of the facts. There are very real economic repercussions for people here in America to opening our NG supply to the world. Landowners, gas companies, and a handful of other industries stand to benefit while a lot of others stand to be negatively impacted.

So we are assuming selling more internationally would reduce the amount sold in the US? Is that what would drive the price up domestically?
No, we have plenty of gas. So much so that we are literally burning off excess gas right now because we're producing more than we need with nowhere to store or sell it.

The price would increase because the world market price is much higher and a NG producer is obviously going to want to get as much for their gas as possible, so they're going to support opening U.S. natural gas markets up to the world market. Right now our gas is confined to the domestic market due to lack of export facilities.

U.S. gas flooding the market would likely drive down world market prices, but not to the levels that the U.S. enjoys today.

The result of higher NG prices would be higher electricity and heating costs for everyone.

U.S. utilities have gone all in on building natural gas power plants, so the impact to Americans could be tremendous as these facilities were built at great expense and expected to last for decades. They're not going to simply shut them down if NG becomes more expensive. Ratepayers will ultimately pay, many times over. More for the power itself and then more to buy goods in the retail market as production costs will have increased.

If Europe wants cheap natural gas, but doesn't want to buy it from Russia, let them remove their fracking bans. They can use and pollute their own water supplies.

I thought the price of gas, like electricity and water to some degree, was controlled by the PUC or other commissions. That's not to say the gas companies won't lobby and get higher prices, but I was under the belief they just can't raise their prices at will.
(03-20-2014 10:58 AM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]More revisionist history. Bush got nowhere near the crap Obama is getting.

Luls, now you are just trollin. It's far easier to see the criticism when it's your guy on the receiving end. Of course you don't think Bush got it bad since it was your side delivering the hits.
(03-20-2014 09:57 AM)VA49er Wrote: [ -> ]Bush received the same, if not more, critcisim during his presidency. It comes with the job title. At least all those that opposed Bush weren't called racists, so that was different.

And what the **** do you call these then?

Geez!

03-troll

03-lmfao
(03-20-2014 11:22 AM)smn1256 Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 09:45 AM)Niner National Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 09:05 AM)VA49er Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 08:52 AM)Niner National Wrote: [ -> ]This will increase the domestic cost of natural gas, possibly by a lot. NG on the international market goes for significantly more than it does on the domestic market.

Large companies, especially in manufacturing, are lobbying against these facilities because many of them expanded or moved operations to America because they thought our cheap natural gas prices would give them a competitive advantage vs. where their other options.

Environmental groups don't want to see them either, but to pin it solely on them is to be ignorant of the facts. There are very real economic repercussions for people here in America to opening our NG supply to the world. Landowners, gas companies, and a handful of other industries stand to benefit while a lot of others stand to be negatively impacted.

So we are assuming selling more internationally would reduce the amount sold in the US? Is that what would drive the price up domestically?
No, we have plenty of gas. So much so that we are literally burning off excess gas right now because we're producing more than we need with nowhere to store or sell it.

The price would increase because the world market price is much higher and a NG producer is obviously going to want to get as much for their gas as possible, so they're going to support opening U.S. natural gas markets up to the world market. Right now our gas is confined to the domestic market due to lack of export facilities.

U.S. gas flooding the market would likely drive down world market prices, but not to the levels that the U.S. enjoys today.

The result of higher NG prices would be higher electricity and heating costs for everyone.

U.S. utilities have gone all in on building natural gas power plants, so the impact to Americans could be tremendous as these facilities were built at great expense and expected to last for decades. They're not going to simply shut them down if NG becomes more expensive. Ratepayers will ultimately pay, many times over. More for the power itself and then more to buy goods in the retail market as production costs will have increased.

If Europe wants cheap natural gas, but doesn't want to buy it from Russia, let them remove their fracking bans. They can use and pollute their own water supplies.

I thought the price of gas, like electricity and water to some degree, was controlled by the PUC or other commissions. That's not to say the gas companies won't lobby and get higher prices, but I was under the belief they just can't raise their prices at will.
Their margins are regulated. They still have to buy the gas for market price. In NC, prices are regulated, but they always get rate increases approved when the price of the commodity itself goes up. When it decreases, they (unlike the electric company) actually lower rates, which must also get approval.

The producers of gas are generally not the utility distributors. The distributors are basically wholesale customers and we are the retail customers.
(03-20-2014 12:29 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 09:57 AM)VA49er Wrote: [ -> ]Bush received the same, if not more, critcisim during his presidency. It comes with the job title. At least all those that opposed Bush weren't called racists, so that was different.

And what the **** to you call these then?

Geez!

03-troll

03-lmfao

What are you talking about?
(03-20-2014 01:16 PM)VA49er Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 12:29 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-20-2014 09:57 AM)VA49er Wrote: [ -> ]Bush received the same, if not more, critcisim during his presidency. It comes with the job title. At least all those that opposed Bush weren't called racists, so that was different.

And what the **** do you call these then?

Geez!

03-troll

03-lmfao

What are you talking about?

Sorry...I corrected one typo, but you bitched at me for trollin' and you came back with this. Just sayin'

04-cheers
Forgive me..but..It seems crazy to me to even be talking about doing things to "hurt" Russia. Here we are removed from the USSR threat and we are openly talking about making Russia an enemy? If we need LNG to make the US more energy independent? That's fine. Let's not though banter about that we would do it because it would do harm Russia as some punishment or sanction. There is nothing productive in that conversation.
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