CSNbbs

So says this reporter with the Kansas City Star:




Pluck of the Irish
College football

I don't buy that because I thought there was some sort of movement or study in the 80s done that showed it was better for most universities to align with a conference vs. stay independent.

The Big East might not exist as it does today if the Metro Conference had succeeded in forming their own football league. FSU, Louisville, Cincy, VT and Memphis, Southern Miss, Tulane and S. Carolina were all Metro members in basketball and called together reps from Pitt, Syracuse, Miami, BC, WVU, ECU, Temple and Rutgers. My guess is PSU passed from the earlier failings of the conference they wanted to form.

Miami was interested as was FSU, but ther were grumblings about some losing the ability to schedule nationally plus some of those football programs at the time were second rate (Louisville was supposedly adament about the national scheduling).

Things died down and FSU took the ACC invite, S. Carolina went to the SEC, the Big East FB Conference was formed and the rest made up the beginnings of C-USA.

Personally, I would have done this as a conference, all-sports, for the Metro in 1990:

BC
Florida St.
Louisville
Miami (FL)
Pittsburgh
S. Carolina
Syracuse
Temple
WVU

Conference USA/Mid Atlantic Conference could have looked like this:

Cincy
ECU
Memphis
Rutgers
Southern Miss
Tulane
Virginia Tech
plus another school

Its a what-if scenario, nothing more.

And Notre Dame created the heavens and the earth and made all college programs in their image. . .

BE football was created by a panic of sorts...Penn St going to the big 10 sent shockwaves around and may have killed eastern football...it had nothing to do with ND


Jackson

When reading these thing I always wounder why L'ville was so insistant on playing a national schedule?

FunkmasterFlash Wrote:When reading these thing I always wounder why L'ville was so insistant on playing a national schedule?

Schnellenberger was coach at the time and it looks like he was trying to create another independent power like he started with Miami (FL).

mattsarz Wrote:

FunkmasterFlash Wrote:When reading these thing I always wounder why L'ville was so insistant on playing a national schedule?

Schnellenberger was coach at the time and it looks like he was trying to create another independent power like he started with Miami (FL).

Louisville was slow to the changing winds in College Football at that time. And also during that time period Louisville was much like the current Big East with it basketball mind set.

PSU officially joined the Big10 in 1990 but didn't start play until 1992.

Arkansas and S. Carolina accepted the SEC invitatations in August and September 1990, respectively.

FSU joined the ACC officially on July 1, 1991.

BE officially announced expansion for FB on Feb. 5th, 1991.

I don't know when the offical contract was signed between ND and NBC but certainly the BE, ACC, and SEC expanding was NOT because ND signed with NBC. The contract that was signed between NBC and ND probably prevented ND from joining a conference.

I wonder if PSU would ahve gotten a similar deal with another network whether PSU would have joined the Big10. Although, perhaps the CIC was too much for them to pass up at the time being a land-grant school trying to boost graduate research.

whatever scenario you believe, all of them center around money first. That should be the point of the article. That ND paved the way to big money in college football , that money is the driving force of football, and that its everyman for himself.

Maize Wrote:

mattsarz Wrote:

FunkmasterFlash Wrote:When reading these thing I always wounder why L'ville was so insistant on playing a national schedule?

Schnellenberger was coach at the time and it looks like he was trying to create another independent power like he started with Miami (FL).

Louisville was slow to the changing winds in College Football at that time. And also during that time period Louisville was much like the current Big East with it basketball mind set.

And Crum did not want to play in the Big East. And at that time, what Denny Crum wanted Denny Crum got!

Wilkie01 Wrote:

Maize Wrote:

mattsarz Wrote:

FunkmasterFlash Wrote:When reading these thing I always wounder why L'ville was so insistant on playing a national schedule?

Schnellenberger was coach at the time and it looks like he was trying to create another independent power like he started with Miami (FL).

Louisville was slow to the changing winds in College Football at that time. And also during that time period Louisville was much like the current Big East with it basketball mind set.

And Crum did not want to play in the Big East. And at that time, what Denny Crum wanted Denny Crum got!

Wilkie, do you remember when he called the old Tony Cruise show and said he did not understand why UofL would go to the Big East and they should stay in C-USA. Denny is a good guy but he is a basketball guy first and foremost.

Maize Wrote:

Wilkie01 Wrote:

Maize Wrote:

mattsarz Wrote:

FunkmasterFlash Wrote:When reading these thing I always wounder why L'ville was so insistant on playing a national schedule?

Schnellenberger was coach at the time and it looks like he was trying to create another independent power like he started with Miami (FL).

Louisville was slow to the changing winds in College Football at that time. And also during that time period Louisville was much like the current Big East with it basketball mind set.

And Crum did not want to play in the Big East. And at that time, what Denny Crum wanted Denny Crum got!

Wilkie, do you remember when he called the old Tony Cruise show and said he did not understand why UofL would go to the Big East and they should stay in C-USA. Denny is a good guy but he is a basketball guy first and foremost.

I heard and shortly afterwards we join CUSA football. By the way, Howard Schellenberger wanted to join the Big East! So Howard got pissed and left for OK! We got Cooper and the rest is modern history.

Ron Steiner told that story. Donald Swain did not even tell him he was making that move. Howard heard about it on the freaking news in his office. That how jacked up our Administration and athletic department was during that time.

Not to mention the basketball program was breaking every rule in the book with the SUV and the free hotel rooms to players-(Nate Johnson) parents.

Thank GOD Tom Jurich came along and fixed that mess and got us ready to join the Big East just in time.

I heard that also and I agree with you 100%. I do not like the ND situation or 16 baketball teams, but I love being BCS. Time will get us in a 9, 10, or 12 all sports conference.

Wilkie01 Wrote:I heard that also and I agree with you 100%. I do not like the ND situation or 16 baketball teams, but I love being BCS. Time will get us in a 9, 10, or 12 all sports conference.

Wilkie with the crap ND has pulled with the-(We will play every Big East school on a rotating basis) to now we will play Rutgers-(In the Meadowlands), Pitt-(Long time Rival) and probably Syracuse and we might throw a bone to UofL I say screw them.

Either ND plays EVERYONE of just forget the whole freaking thing. They offer nothing in Basketball and they take Big East Non BCS Bowl Spots yet the Big East Office continues to kiss their backsides. I don't blame ND but we should not have to take it.

At this point I would take UCF, Memphis, Temple and ECU over Notre Dame and the rest of the Basketball Schools. They can go on their merry way with a solid Basketball league and still make a lot of money.

mattsarz Wrote:I don't buy that because I thought there was some sort of movement or study in the 80s done that showed it was better for most universities to align with a conference vs. stay independent.

The Big East might not exist as it does today if the Metro Conference had succeeded in forming their own football league. FSU, Louisville, Cincy, VT and Memphis, Southern Miss, Tulane and S. Carolina were all Metro members in basketball and called together reps from Pitt, Syracuse, Miami, BC, WVU, ECU, Temple and Rutgers. My guess is PSU passed from the earlier failings of the conference they wanted to form.

Miami was interested as was FSU, but ther were grumblings about some losing the ability to schedule nationally plus some of those football programs at the time were second rate (Louisville was supposedly adament about the national scheduling).

Things died down and FSU took the ACC invite, S. Carolina went to the SEC, the Big East FB Conference was formed and the rest made up the beginnings of C-USA.

Personally, I would have done this as a conference, all-sports, for the Metro in 1990:

BC
Florida St.
Louisville
Miami (FL)
Pittsburgh
S. Carolina
Syracuse
Temple
WVU

Conference USA/Mid Atlantic Conference could have looked like this:

Cincy
ECU
Memphis
Rutgers
Southern Miss
Tulane
Virginia Tech
plus another school

Its a what-if scenario, nothing more.

Both South Carolina and the ACC would have swallowed crow and reunited despite their harsh differences before South Carolina would have aligned with the Northern schools. It might have worked if you put South Carolina in the Conference USA / Mid Atlantic Conference with Florida State and minus Rutgers. ECU would have been a better fit in the all sports Metro with WV as it is closer to the DC , Virginia, Tidal area for support and recruiting purposes. Rutgers belongs with this group also with Temple, Pitt, Cuse and BC.

Maize Wrote:

Wilkie01 Wrote:I heard that also and I agree with you 100%. I do not like the ND situation or 16 baketball teams, but I love being BCS. Time will get us in a 9, 10, or 12 all sports conference.

Wilkie with the crap ND has pulled with the-(We will play every Big East school on a rotating basis) to now we will play Rutgers-(In the Meadowlands), Pitt-(Long time Rival) and probably Syracuse and we might throw a bone to UofL I say screw them.

Either ND plays EVERYONE of just forget the whole freaking thing. They offer nothing in Basketball and they take Big East Non BCS Bowl Spots yet the Big East Office continues to kiss their backsides. I don't blame ND but we should not have to take it.

At this point I would take UCF, Memphis, Temple and ECU over Notre Dame and the rest of the Basketball Schools. They can go on their merry way with a solid Basketball league and still make a lot of money.

I hear that and I still believe the split will happen in 2010. The only variable is when does the real re=alignment talk become public.

Metro was a decent basketball league. The timing was off for that league. Florida State was a huge power while everybody else was mediocre in football. Memphis and Louisville had decent hoops. The Tulane point shaving scandal in hoops killed Tulane's basketball program.
Metro-could have been
Va Tech
UC
Memphis
UL
Southern Miss
Tulane
Florida State
South Carolina
Miami-Fl
ECU

Big East could have been
Penn State
Temple
Rutgers
BC
WV
Pitt
Syracuse
Army
NAVY

old Southwest
Rice
Houston
SMU
Arkansas
Texas Tech
Texas A&M
Baylor
Texas
TCU

old Big 8
Kansas
Kansas State
Neb
OKlahoma
OSU
Iowa State
Colorado
Missouri


Idaho, Utah State, Boise State, Akron, Buffalo,Marshall, UAB, USF, UCF, Tulsa, UConn and entire sun belt might still be D-AA if things stayed with 8,9,10 team leagues. The SEC going to a title game was what changed to dynamic of TV revenues. Without a SEC title game, they don't add Arkansas or South Carolina.

MAC might never have re-added NIU. Amazing how a few teams moving can change so much.

Big East is at 8 teams right now and the MWC at 9 and WAC at 8. Pac 10 at 10.

TIGER-PAUL Wrote:whatever scenario you believe, all of them center around money first. That should be the point of the article. That ND paved the way to big money in college football , that money is the driving force of football, and that its everyman for himself.

The SEC, who was part of the CFA, for years was constantly being offered their own contract to break away from the CFA. They stayed in the CFA and jacked up the number of appearances the conference would get and the profits from the CFA contract until they finally realized it was better to go it alone.

Another example of the media spinning their sorry revisionist history off on an unsuspecting and, in many cases, uncaring public. Notre Dame and NBC had absolutely nothing to do with the formation of Big East football. Those two events are totally unrelated.

Jackson and Hoquista pointed out very well above that the implementation of Big East football was the result of a chain reaction that Notre Dame had nothing to do with. As a matter of fact, Notre Dame's deal with NBC was a result of the same chain reaction.