http://money.msn.com/business-news/artic...d=17256044
President Obama will again talk about creating jobs, the real economic driver. "Promise zones" is the big buzz phrase.
But in year 6 of his administration and with a majority of Congress under Democratic control he hasnt moved the needle. The magical 8% measurement is fictional. That excludes people who have given up looking for work. So be it 7.1% or any other "improved number" is purely fictional.
Shovel ready? Affordable Care Act? I promise you can keep your doctor and if you like your plan, keep it too. Promises, but delivering just the opposite.
How gullible are we? For how much longer?
Both federal goverment centric at the point of "creating" jobs. The government doesnt manufacture anything. It doesnt provide any "services" that are cost effective and competitive.
Any offset, such as the subsidy's for Insurance companies when the paid enrolles fail to meet the necessary threshold is $ coming out of your paycheck, out of your retirement fund, out of your government services. All in an attempt to coax the Insurance Companies to not raise rates. So any attempt to "keep costs down" is simply additional government spending not the Insurance Companies competing by being more efficient.
Right now Illinois is rated dead last in growth prospects nationwide. Less than 1%. Illinois too spends itself into oblivion. Jobs are migrating to Wisconsin and Indiana by the day. On a national level jobs have been and continue to move outside the US, though there has been a reversal in that trend for manufacturing based on quality. But still, as "others" realize that quality sells they will improve to.
Think of "Made in Japan"! In the 60's that meant cheap trash. For those under 50 made in Japan doesnt carry that connotation. Made in India or China does. What makes you think China and India arent going to become the new Japan? Notice one country is omitted from this, though they are a critical component to equation. The US. The US is a driver in this. But instead of addition or multiplication it is driving subtraction and division.
American buyers have made a huge economic boost for India & China. Cheap labor and total disregard for the environment allows lower prices & more profit.
(01-14-2014 11:40 AM)gobaseline Wrote: [ -> ]http://money.msn.com/business-news/artic...d=17256044
President Obama will again talk about creating jobs, the real economic driver. "Promise zones" is the big buzz phrase.
But in year 6 of his administration and with a majority of Congress under Democratic control he hasnt moved the needle. The magical 8% measurement is fictional. That excludes people who have given up looking for work. So be it 7.1% or any other "improved number" is purely fictional.
Shovel ready? Affordable Care Act? I promise you can keep your doctor and if you like your plan, keep it too. Promises, but delivering just the opposite.
How gullible are we? For how much longer?
Both federal goverment centric at the point of "creating" jobs. The government doesnt manufacture anything. It doesnt provide any "services" that are cost effective and competitive.
Any offset, such as the subsidy's for Insurance companies when the paid enrolles fail to meet the necessary threshold is $ coming out of your paycheck, out of your retirement fund, out of your government services. All in an attempt to coax the Insurance Companies to not raise rates. So any attempt to "keep costs down" is simply additional government spending not the Insurance Companies competing by being more efficient.
Right now Illinois is rated dead last in growth prospects nationwide. Less than 1%. Illinois too spends itself into oblivion. Jobs are migrating to Wisconsin and Indiana by the day. On a national level jobs have been and continue to move outside the US, though there has been a reversal in that trend for manufacturing based on quality. But still, as "others" realize that quality sells they will improve to.
Think of "Made in Japan"! In the 60's that meant cheap trash. For those under 50 made in Japan doesnt carry that connotation. Made in India or China does. What makes you think China and India arent going to become the new Japan? Notice one country is omitted from this, though they are a critical component to equation. The US. The US is a driver in this. But instead of addition or multiplication it is driving subtraction and division.
You seem to have lots of answers, I'd vote for you if you ran for prez, or congress or dogcatcher. From what I've read running the country must be pretty easy.
No seriously.
I simply shared some facts, asked questions and some musings that aren't original and are not unknown.
Policies matter, but are simply the fruit of the ideas.
That is where the battle for the mind is.
Along the lines shared on the article and my comments do we agree, part ways and why?
(01-14-2014 06:06 PM)gobaseline Wrote: [ -> ]No seriously.
I simply shared some facts, asked questions and some musings that aren't original and are not unknown.
Policies matter, but are simply the fruit of the ideas.
That is where the battle for the mind is.
Along the lines shared on the article and my comments do we agree, part ways and why?
Seriously? Seriously? Seriously I have few answers, and if I did, I ought to do something with whatever sacred answers I think I might have. But since the system and the individuals within it are for sale, I think I'll keep my "wisdom" to myself, focus on my little corner of the world, and do the best I can do.
Geo-politics and national politics are beyond me. I'm not brilliant, but I'm self aware, and I know that Obama, Bush, Carter, Reagan, Ford, Clinton and the rest, regardless of political orientation, are more qualified to run the country than I am.
And if I truly think not, then I've got an obligation to run for office, rather than ranting and bitching about men and women who have the courage, or the ego, or both, to run for office and live out their convictions in the glare of the public eye. Whether it's Ted Cruz, Obama, Ted Kennedy or Sarah Palin they've all made more of an impact than most and I can respect that. It's much easier to criticize than to do the work.
One response I've been hearing lately is what we've all suspected for quite some time.
It's called the 2nd Machine Revolution. Kind of like the Industrial Revolution in ways.
Industrial Revolution was thought to be a job killer as the regular worker would be cut out by the machine productivity. As it turned out the machine just made a bigger pie. For instance at one time food production took 90% of the population. Now it is 2% of the population and we produce more than we can eat.
The 2nd Machine Revolution is different in that productivity is vastly improved, but now in many cases machines actually DO the work.
The percentage of working age people actually working is now below 70%.
Two parts of the problem: to be employable you either have to be quite highly educated or you have to do service work or production type work. India and China and Japan and others are really cutting into the educated segment, the US education system is in the upper 20' s ranking in academic outcomes. So many of those brainy jobs are going elsewhere. And/or immigrants coming in to take the doctor jobs, programmer jobs, doctor's degree jobs. At the lower end, production jobs can go elsewhere very easy.
No easy pickings. And for 30-40% of the working population, there isn't much there. And not likely to be anything there anytime soon.
For the educated middle class population things are better, but even much of that is going off shore. Sure there is still some of the haircuts, lawn work, garbage collection, insurance agents. And then you can still get a job at Walmart or Menards or Target. Arabs have the gas stations, Asian girls do the pedicures. All of this is still there but whatever.
The environment has changed. I think it is not just politics, it is a real shift in reality where regardless of what Washington does, the outcomes are not that good.
The rich folks don't really care any more. Main Street is kind of a thing of the past, and the industrialists think globally.
It seems we are somewhat screwed.
(01-14-2014 08:13 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote: [ -> ]One response I've been hearing lately is what we've all suspected for quite some time.
It's called the 2nd Machine Revolution. Kind of like the Industrial Revolution in ways.
Industrial Revolution was thought to be a job killer as the regular worker would be cut out by the machine productivity. As it turned out the machine just made a bigger pie. For instance at one time food production took 90% of the population. Now it is 2% of the population and we produce more than we can eat.
The 2nd Machine Revolution is different in that productivity is vastly improved, but now in many cases machines actually DO the work.
The percentage of working age people actually working is now below 70%.
Two parts of the problem: to be employable you either have to be quite highly educated or you have to do service work or production type work. India and China and Japan and others are really cutting into the educated segment, the US education system is in the upper 20' s ranking in academic outcomes. So many of those brainy jobs are going elsewhere. And/or immigrants coming in to take the doctor jobs, programmer jobs, doctor's degree jobs. At the lower end, production jobs can go elsewhere very easy.
No easy pickings. And for 30-40% of the working population, there isn't much there. And not likely to be anything there anytime soon.
For the educated middle class population things are better, but even much of that is going off shore. Sure there is still some of the haircuts, lawn work, garbage collection, insurance agents. And then you can still get a job at Walmart or Menards or Target. Arabs have the gas stations, Asian girls do the pedicures. All of this is still there but whatever.
The environment has changed. I think it is not just politics, it is a real shift in reality where regardless of what Washington does, the outcomes are not that good.
The rich folks don't really care any more. Main Street is kind of a thing of the past, and the industrialists think globally.
It seems we are somewhat screwed.
That's well written. Years ago I used to work summers in a foundry, made good money too. I do reminder being angry/jealous that after I got my college degree that the factory rats were still making twice, three times what I made as a college grad. I was a bellicose bitter young man who railed about the unfairness of it all.
In my naïveté I didn't understand how those unskilled, highly paid factory rats were the linchpin to an economically viable America. Now those jobs are gone and the income gap is bigger and bigger and bigger between unskilled labor and so called professionals. More poor Americans are on assistance and feel barred from a good life with decent wages. At some point the have nots, who have few options economically, will engage in social anarchy and we'll deal with some kind of revolution. Even college grads with their high student debt load, and limited access to the American dream, will start to feel hopeless.
(01-14-2014 06:40 PM)BCBronco Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2014 06:06 PM)gobaseline Wrote: [ -> ]No seriously.
I simply shared some facts, asked questions and some musings that aren't original and are not unknown.
Policies matter, but are simply the fruit of the ideas.
That is where the battle for the mind is.
Along the lines shared on the article and my comments do we agree, part ways and why?
Seriously? Seriously? Seriously I have few answers, and if I did, I ought to do something with whatever sacred answers I think I might have. But since the system and the individuals within it are for sale, I think I'll keep my "wisdom" to myself, focus on my little corner of the world, and do the best I can do.
Geo-politics and national politics are beyond me. I'm not brilliant, but I'm self aware, and I know that Obama, Bush, Carter, Reagan, Ford, Clinton and the rest, regardless of political orientation, are more qualified to run the country than I am.
And if I truly think not, then I've got an obligation to run for office, rather than ranting and bitching about men and women who have the courage, or the ego, or both, to run for office and live out their convictions in the glare of the public eye. Whether it's Ted Cruz, Obama, Ted Kennedy or Sarah Palin they've all made more of an impact than most and I can respect that. It's much easier to criticize than to do the work.
Seriously.
In short you pose that the human condition is flawed, be it those in and with power, those in "their little corner", those with sacred answers and those bitchin and complaining. Tell us something we dont know!
I read this article and asked why now? Why not earlier? Why when shovel ready wasn't ready should this promise (zone) be any different on the heels of other promises like having the most transparent administration in history (their words) and you can keep your plan and doctor if it best suites you (his words)?
Answers? There are plenty. The right ones? I dont know. But to take seriously these attempts to equalize is just bogus theory.
I have kids and grandkids and I'm mad as hell and Im not taking it anymore.
I told you all Obama was and is an empty suit. I live in the state that gave us this Professorial Genius. I wrote that he sold out and left out to dry one of his best buds, Forest Claypool when Claypool was running for the head of Cook County (Chicago) literally running against a
corpse! Obama sided with the corpse and then the corpses son so he could leverage that political capital.
Jobs come from a stimulated economy not from a government edict or decision to redistribute income.
Tomorrow everyone gets the same income. $50,000.
I guarantee you in 10 days the wealth disparty amongst the recipiants would be as wide as from here to Pluto.
Some would spend it on immediate gratification blowing it almost immediately. Others would save it or invest it. Others stuff under a mattress. And in 10 days time all the equality would be unequal again.
Common Sense says you dont equalize you incentify. You allow the use of engine of freedom to create, generate opportunity.
On a related note, for those who haven't seen it already, this article's a wonderful commentary - even if indirectly - on so many of the things being discussed here:
Quote:Why I Bought A House In Detroit For $500
After college, as my friends left Michigan for better opportunities, I was determined to help fix this broken, chaotic city by building my own home in the middle of it. I was 23 years old.
My first job out of college was working for a construction company in Detroit.
“We’re an all-black company and I need a clean-cut white boy,” my boss told me over drinks in a downtown bar when he hired me. “Customers in the suburbs don’t want to hire a black man.”
When a service call would come in, we would ask, “Does he sound white or black?” If it was the former, I would bid the job. If the latter, my boss would. Detroit is one of the most segregated metro areas in the nation, and for the first time I was getting what it felt like to be on the other side of that line. In contrast to the abstract verbal yoga students at the University of Michigan would perform when speaking about race, this was refreshing. And terrifying. I couldn’t hide behind fancy words any longer.
I grew up in rural Michigan, 45 minutes away from any freeway. I’m the first male member of my family in three generations never to have worked in front of a lathe, and aside from one uncle, I’m the oldest with all of my fingers intact. The university had given me some grandiose ideas like “true solidarity with the oppressed,” and I figured “the oppressed” lived in Detroit, never mind the patrimony. I thought I was making a sacrifice. I thought moving here was staying home when everyone else was leaving the state. I thought I was going to change the world and had some vague notions of starting a school. I cringe at how naive I was. I first rented an apartment in the city, sight unseen, that didn’t have a kitchen sink, so I did my dishes in the bathtub.
Aside from bidding jobs, I spent my days like everyone else: sanding floors in cheap rentals for $8.50 an hour, which got me thinking: I could buy a house and fix it up myself. Not that I was sure how to go about buying, let alone renovating a house. It was just an inexplicit dream, some trick that would keep me from leaving like everyone else, make me a true Detroiter.
[sic]
http://www.buzzfeed.com/drewphilp/why-i-...it-for-500
You're mad as hell? That's good, but how is that actionable? What's your plan to actualize your anger into something meaningful, useful and contributory? How will you use your anger to make this a better world for your grandchildren? I'm eager to hear the details.
With respect to commonsense being the forerunner to incentive, how is that operationalized? Who gets what incentives? How will we structure opportunities in a way that oppressed folks have the skills, access and talent alignment to take advantage of said incentive? Who pays for it? How do we pay for it? How will paying for it impact those of us echo don't need incentives? Do I get a bonus for bring a hard worker? How will these incentives be equitably available? What are the criteria for those chosen for various incentive packages?
I've paid my mortgage on time every month since 1989, had I known that if I paid late, I could have been incentivized to miss a year or so for a reduced interest rate and lower payment I may have done so (not really, too much pride and self respect), but you get the point, incentives are tricky.
I always told my kids to get as much education as possible and aquire a skill that is limited to a select few. Most successful people today are married and combining incomes. Most are having fewer than two kids. They live within their means and they have savings. Those on the other end of the spectrum live for the moment and do things impulsively, i.e. spending every last penny and the latest and greatest thing, having children they can't afford, avoiding marriage or some sort of long term co-habitation. In time this demographic will outnumber the educated and responsible. To keep the masses happy politicians will send more of the pie their way. At some point there will be some sort of revolt.
If you've never seen it, check out the movie "Harrison Bergeron." It a satirical film taken from a short story by Kurt Vonneget (sp). It depicts how the "elites" quelled a revolution that stemmed from inequalities by making everyone equal. If you were brilliant, teachers were pressured to dumb you down to average. If you had a special talent such as being a beautiful great dancer you were handicapped with an ugly mask and weighted down so you danced average.
While it's an extreme example, it will make you think. You can watch it for free on Y Tube, but I believe it is 12 separate parts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1eHkbmUJBQ
(01-14-2014 10:46 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote: [ -> ]Those on the other end of the spectrum...avoiding marriage or some sort of long term co-habitation.
That might be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. They tell rookies at the NFL symposium the #1 threat to their wealth is divorce for a reason.
Ah yes, the return of morality to sound financial planning.
(01-14-2014 11:43 PM)Charm City Bronco Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2014 10:46 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote: [ -> ]Those on the other end of the spectrum...avoiding marriage or some sort of long term co-habitation.
That might be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. They tell rookies at the NFL symposium the #1 threat to their wealth is divorce for a reason.
Ah yes, the return of morality to sound financial planning.
Listen, I get it, no female wants anything to do with you. But you can't project your failures on the rest of humanity.
(01-14-2014 10:15 PM)stdatwmu Wrote: [ -> ]On a related note, for those who haven't seen it already, this article's a wonderful commentary - even if indirectly - on so many of the things being discussed here:
Quote:Why I Bought A House In Detroit For $500
After college, as my friends left Michigan for better opportunities, I was determined to help fix this broken, chaotic city by building my own home in the middle of it. I was 23 years old.
My first job out of college was working for a construction company in Detroit.
“We’re an all-black company and I need a clean-cut white boy,” my boss told me over drinks in a downtown bar when he hired me. “Customers in the suburbs don’t want to hire a black man.”
When a service call would come in, we would ask, “Does he sound white or black?” If it was the former, I would bid the job. If the latter, my boss would. Detroit is one of the most segregated metro areas in the nation, and for the first time I was getting what it felt like to be on the other side of that line. In contrast to the abstract verbal yoga students at the University of Michigan would perform when speaking about race, this was refreshing. And terrifying. I couldn’t hide behind fancy words any longer.
I grew up in rural Michigan, 45 minutes away from any freeway. I’m the first male member of my family in three generations never to have worked in front of a lathe, and aside from one uncle, I’m the oldest with all of my fingers intact. The university had given me some grandiose ideas like “true solidarity with the oppressed,” and I figured “the oppressed” lived in Detroit, never mind the patrimony. I thought I was making a sacrifice. I thought moving here was staying home when everyone else was leaving the state. I thought I was going to change the world and had some vague notions of starting a school. I cringe at how naive I was. I first rented an apartment in the city, sight unseen, that didn’t have a kitchen sink, so I did my dishes in the bathtub.
Aside from bidding jobs, I spent my days like everyone else: sanding floors in cheap rentals for $8.50 an hour, which got me thinking: I could buy a house and fix it up myself. Not that I was sure how to go about buying, let alone renovating a house. It was just an inexplicit dream, some trick that would keep me from leaving like everyone else, make me a true Detroiter.
[sic]
http://www.buzzfeed.com/drewphilp/why-i-...it-for-500
Great read. I've seen the same thing happen on a smaller scale in Benton Harbor. I believe Detroit will come back, but not because of city management or government, but because of risk takers and visionaries who can see value where others can't.
(01-14-2014 10:46 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote: [ -> ]I always told my kids to get as much education as possible and aquire a skill that is limited to a select few. Most successful people today are married and combining incomes. Most are having fewer than two kids. They live within their means and they have savings. Those on the other end of the spectrum live for the moment and do things impulsively, i.e. spending every last penny and the latest and greatest thing, having children they can't afford, avoiding marriage or some sort of long term co-habitation. In time this demographic will outnumber the educated and responsible. To keep the masses happy politicians will send more of the pie their way. At some point there will be some sort of revolt.
If you've never seen it, check out the movie "Harrison Bergeron." It a satirical film taken from a short story by Kurt Vonneget (sp). It depicts how the "elites" quelled a revolution that stemmed from inequalities by making everyone equal. If you were brilliant, teachers were pressured to dumb you down to average. If you had a special talent such as being a beautiful great dancer you were handicapped with an ugly mask and weighted down so you danced average.
While it's an extreme example, it will make you think. You can watch it for free on Y Tube, but I believe it is 12 separate parts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1eHkbmUJBQ
My daughter just read that story for class. You have given your kids good sound advice. The question becomes in a society of more single parent families and absent parents, many too burdened or unprepared to parent, who gives these aimless kids the kind of advice you give/gave your kids? A: no one. So these kids become a burden on society as well.
(01-14-2014 10:46 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote: [ -> ]I always told my kids to get as much education as possible and aquire a skill that is limited to a select few. Most successful people today are married and combining incomes. Most are having fewer than two kids. They live within their means and they have savings. Those on the other end of the spectrum live for the moment and do things impulsively, i.e. spending every last penny and the latest and greatest thing, having children they can't afford, avoiding marriage or some sort of long term co-habitation. In time this demographic will outnumber the educated and responsible. To keep the masses happy politicians will send more of the pie their way. At some point there will be some sort of revolt.
If you've never seen it, check out the movie "Harrison Bergeron." It a satirical film taken from a short story by Kurt Vonneget (sp). It depicts how the "elites" quelled a revolution that stemmed from inequalities by making everyone equal. If you were brilliant, teachers were pressured to dumb you down to average. If you had a special talent such as being a beautiful great dancer you were handicapped with an ugly mask and weighted down so you danced average.
While it's an extreme example, it will make you think. You can watch it for free on Y Tube, but I believe it is 12 separate parts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1eHkbmUJBQ
We do that now, via the HR department through corporate America. It's called Salary surveys, everyone wants similar titles, job descriptions, and metrics to evaluate so the free market aspect is taken out of the equation. In other words, discourage a person from moving jobs.
I railed against it, and get called to task by HR departments quite often, I encouraged my team to excel and better themselves, and I rewarded them when they did so. HR wanted me to keep them within the closely defined job descriptions and no out of the box thinking.
That whole "salary grade" deal, it's the stuff of The Stepford Wives. Hence my independence these days.
Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others.
(01-15-2014 09:18 AM)BCBronco Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2014 10:46 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote: [ -> ]I always told my kids to get as much education as possible and aquire a skill that is limited to a select few. Most successful people today are married and combining incomes. Most are having fewer than two kids. They live within their means and they have savings. Those on the other end of the spectrum live for the moment and do things impulsively, i.e. spending every last penny and the latest and greatest thing, having children they can't afford, avoiding marriage or some sort of long term co-habitation. In time this demographic will outnumber the educated and responsible. To keep the masses happy politicians will send more of the pie their way. At some point there will be some sort of revolt.
If you've never seen it, check out the movie "Harrison Bergeron." It a satirical film taken from a short story by Kurt Vonneget (sp). It depicts how the "elites" quelled a revolution that stemmed from inequalities by making everyone equal. If you were brilliant, teachers were pressured to dumb you down to average. If you had a special talent such as being a beautiful great dancer you were handicapped with an ugly mask and weighted down so you danced average.
While it's an extreme example, it will make you think. You can watch it for free on Y Tube, but I believe it is 12 separate parts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1eHkbmUJBQ
My daughter just read that story for class. You have given your kids good sound advice. The question becomes in a society of more single parent families and absent parents, many too burdened or unprepared to parent, who gives these aimless kids the kind of advice you give/gave your kids? A: no one. So these kids become a burden on society as well.
So true. The stories I hear (my wife's a teacher) and the things I see... we're certainly not heading in the right direction. I'm firmly on the "parents are more important than any teacher" camp when it comes to kids. Teachers are critical, but they can't control what happens the remaining 70% of the day.
That said, we absolutely need to make some basic education about "real world" issues a graduation requirement. I know there are plenty of forces at play to prevent that from happening, but it's a shame.
Every 18 year old in this country needs to actually understand personal finance, retirement planning, budgeting, 401k plans, mortgages and personal loans, student loans, etc. We're already in a self-devouring cycle with that stuff when it comes to the majority of the population. Doing anything to stem the tide is a step in the right direction.
(01-15-2014 09:45 AM)DesertBronco Wrote: [ -> ]We do that now, via the HR department through corporate America. It's called Salary surveys, everyone wants similar titles, job descriptions, and metrics to evaluate so the free market aspect is taken out of the equation. In other words, discourage a person from moving jobs.
I railed against it, and get called to task by HR departments quite often, I encouraged my team to excel and better themselves, and I rewarded them when they did so. HR wanted me to keep them within the closely defined job descriptions and no out of the box thinking.
That whole "salary grade" deal, it's the stuff of The Stepford Wives. Hence my independence these days.
Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others.
Ugh, yeah, don't get me started on that wonderful part of giant corporations.
