I'm posting this here because the Big East had a large re-configuration in the last round of conference alignment and there's been some discussion about athletic budgets here recently.
In this week's Sports Business Journal (I can't post the article as its a pay membership site), there is an article about the red ink that the University of Arizona's athletic department has been bleeding despite playing many of their sports in the PAC-10. They've cut a large number of employees over the past few years and a few sports, and the school's AD is starting to believe that when Lute Olson retires, he won't be able to be able to bring in a decent coach to replace him. Olson only makes $750K from UA, he makes at least that in deals with sponsors not affiliated with UA.
There are other factors regarding university marketing and how money for athletics is funded (no student fees go towards athletics, I believe only jersey sales on campus go back into the athletics coffers) and the school has limited its sponsorships, particularly in alcohol sponsorships. The outgoing president was also involved in the formation of the Patriot League and believes that athletics revenues should go back into the school whenever possible.
I thought this might be interesting to look at. I can't see the PAC-10 allowing one of its institutions to look elsewhere if they can't meet requirements in terms of sports offered (if it ever comes to that), but Tulane was looking at dropping football altogether before the hurricane, and it will be interesting if Tulane's athletics can survive after. The article states that the AD is projecting a $5 million shortfall in the budget in 2010 and there is no relief in site at this point.
In my opinion, if things don't turn around at UA, they could be a domino in the next conference realignment.
Vanderbilt, Duke and Wake Forest should not be playing BCS football.
Duke earns BCS money in basketball and Duke Lacross Jersey sales.
Wilkie01 Wrote:Vanderbilt, Duke and Wake Forest should not be playing BCS football.
Vandy spends more on athletics than 3/4 of the Big East schools. $36.6 million in '04. Only UConn and Louisville outspent them. Louisville by about $1 million. Vandy's problem is that they are a tough school. Even if you can get them in, they don't have a lot of fluff courses to keep them eligible.
Vandy and Wake Forest do not really earn much money for their confernences. I think the are BCS leeches and would not make budget without the free ride.
Wilkie01 Wrote:Vandy and Wake Forest do not really earn much money for their confernences. I think the are BCS leeches and would not make budget without the free ride.
Possibly not, but Vandy still spends alot of money on athletics.
SEC schools make a lot of money.
Vandy and Wake are charter members of their conferences....I am sure many of the SEC/ACC fans enjoy competing against them because they always have....similar to many of us wanting Temple to return if they can put there football program back together again
Jackson
For years people thought Northwestern was gonna get booted from Big Ten, but their academics like Vandy and Duke make a hard sell for presidents to vote them out. Plus, the BCS money is so big that teams will have to get thrown out like Temple to give up that money.
OUBOBCATJOHN Wrote:For years people thought Northwestern was gonna get booted from Big Ten, but their academics like Vandy and Duke make a hard sell for presidents to vote them out. Plus, the BCS money is so big that teams will have to get thrown out like Temple to give up that money.
At least Northwestern competes for a Big Ten title every now and then. Neither Duke or Vandy has done squat since the 80s.
There was a story recently that Colorado was having budget problems too.
I disagree, Wake earns money in basketball, they have been to the NIT and NCAA Tournament numerous times and have advanced in both tournaments. Vanderbilt adds academic excellence which is still very important. Just because they stink in one sport doesn't take away what they add in other sports.
Hoquista Wrote:There was a story recently that Colorado was having budget problems too.
I've seen that they will be in the red as well.
The point wasn't whether schools could compete on the field or the court, but whether financially they could continue to compete with even the schools in their own conference. Wake and Vandy must do well enough to keep their budget issues in check so that they can make as a BCS school. Schools like Arizona and Colorado may have to look around and say its not feasible to continue to compete at the levels they currently are.
I bet Fresno would be happy to replace Arizona in the Pac 10. They would be a pretty good fit for the conference too.
Shannon Panther Wrote:Wilkie01 Wrote:Vanderbilt, Duke and Wake Forest should not be playing BCS football.
Vandy spends more on athletics than 3/4 of the Big East schools. $36.6 million in '04. Only UConn and Louisville outspent them. Louisville by about $1 million. Vandy's problem is that they are a tough school. Even if you can get them in, they don't have a lot of fluff courses to keep them eligible.
Thats a simpelton argument. The SEC distributes vast amounts of cash to these schools. Vandy is only spending some of what they leech. Most 3rd graders could figure that out.
Despite what is reported to the federal government and regurgitated on the Equity in Athletics site, the majority of athletics programs supposedly "lose money". Or do they?
One of the reasons why is because the NCAA makes them account for the tuition and fees and room and board expenses that their "scholarships" entail - and at private institutions and public schools that charge double for out-of-state residents that is a huge "expense" that must be accounted for.
Still, in reality, these scholarships truly only cost them the room and board expenses - which is a significant amount, but not nearly the amount when tuition and fees are added into that figure.
Most college fiscal budgets are tied into full-time equivalencies (FTEs). So when they do up their budgets they need to calculate how many students (minus the athletes) are needed to generate enough tuiton and fee revenues (FTEs) to cover the expenses the college has for salary and benefits for the staff (usually like 80% of the budget), maintenance of buildings, energy costs, supplies, etc.
Another thing that hurts some athletic departments' bottom line is that in some cases the revenues generated by that department for things like concessions, advertising, etc., go into the college's general revenue fund account and are not re-invested back into the AD area - but distributed throughout the college.
Cheers,
Neil
Arizona isn't going anywhere.
bitcruncher Wrote:I bet Fresno would be happy to replace Arizona in the Pac 10. They would be a pretty good fit for the conference too.
The PAC-10 requires unanimous approval for expansion, and Fresno has 4 built in no votes from USC, UCLA, Cal, and Stanford just becuase they're in the Cal State system.
[quote][quote="Shannon Panther"] Vandy's problem is that they are a tough school. Even if you can get them in, they don't have a lot of fluff courses to keep them eligible.[/quote]
Not quite as tough as they want you to think. The following paragraphs about "Peabody College" explain the joke which went "go to Peabilt and play football for Vanderbody".
"Peabody was a renowned school of education, especially in the South. It seemed financially strong, due in part to an endowment which had been funded in part by its namesake, George Peabody. It had shared some facilities with Vanderbilt for many years, notably the Joint Universities Library, located across the street from Peabody's main academic buildings, and indeed closer to them than to much of the main Vanderbilt academic quadrangle. Also, Peabody students were eligible for participation in Vanderbilt ROTC. In the early 1970s Peabody students became eligible to participate on Vanderbilt athletic teams. This was said to be a concession to the fact that Peabody had no intercollegiate athletics of its own, but cynics noted that Peabody did have a major in physical education, a major frequently taken by scholarship athletes but one which had not been available at Vanderbilt, and was seen by many as an attempt to get players onto Vanderbilt sports teams, notably football, who were not eligible for admission to Vanderbilt.
By the late 1970s a series of serious financial missteps had left Peabody's finances in such poor shape that the school's choices seemed to be reduced to two, either negotiating a merger with Vanderbilt or closing entirely. The former path was chosen, and Peabody became a part of Vanderbilt in 1979."
Don't doubt that the physical education degrees are still offered, but they are tougher to enter than other SEC schools (not saying much). Every conference needs a few bottom-feeders for the other schools to accumulate conference wins. If said "bottom-feeders" contribute academic excellence, all the better. I am proud that 4 C-USA institutions are private with high academic standards. Interestingly, Tulsa won the football championship and Rice is currently in what amounts to the Final 4 of college baseball (only 4 teams remain alive in the CWS).
MichiganTiger Wrote:bitcruncher Wrote:I bet Fresno would be happy to replace Arizona in the Pac 10. They would be a pretty good fit for the conference too.
The PAC-10 requires unanimous approval for expansion, and Fresno has 4 built in no votes from USC, UCLA, Cal, and Stanford just becuase they're in the Cal State system.
Of course, none of them want to look bad by losing to Fresno.