http://zagsblog.com/articles/balance-of-...p-schools/
Since we are debating Josh's decision to take commitments from some JUCO players, and since Parrish is saying maybe Burrell is not Memphis good, I think this article is highly relevant.
It says that the 2007 NCAA rule change, that prevents high schoolers from adding more than one core course in prep school, has pushed the best players who were having trouble qualifying for D-1 out of prep schools and into junior colleges.
So, the best non-qualifying players out of high school, that used to be picked up from prep schools, are now coming out of JCUOs.
And in case anyone forgot, Geron Johnson came to us from a JUCO last year.
If we don't get Cliff or Juan, it may be our only option. We need another big man and shooting guard for next year. We're sort of thin at the moment, and need some bruisers.
“I think junior college helps student-athletes because it prepared them to step in right away at the four-year level after two years, whereas many incoming [college] freshman go to NCAA schools unprepared, which has resulted in 40 percent of all college basketball players transferring by the end of their sophomore season,” Erickson wrote in an email.
Wow. I knew transferring was common but that number surprised me.
(10-22-2013 12:29 PM)TripleA Wrote: [ -> ]And in case anyone forgot, Geron Johnson came to us from a JUCO last year.
That doesn't really prove a point.
That is like saying (since DJ was a zero star) Memphis should go out and just recruit zero stars since they will all be like DJ.
We try to have it both ways...we accept the fact that when services rate signees highly the services are spot on, but when services rate signees poorly, the services are useless.
Often times the best way to judge recruits is by looking at the peer schools that are involved. It appears, for the most part, the schools really involved in these guys were not (here we go) "Memphis good."
In all reality, it is tough to get a buch of big time players when the likelihood of PT is slim with a returning core of Pookie, Markel, Nick, Austin, Shaq, Woodson and Iverson. Oh and Wilson.
(10-22-2013 02:06 PM)salukiblue Wrote: [ -> ]We try to have it both ways...we accept the fact that when services rate signees highly the services are spot on, but when services rate signees poorly, the services are useless.
Hard to argue with that. I recall a big sentiment here that Marcanvis Hymon was "not Memphis good" when he committed to Ole Miss. Yet he is rated much higher than either of the weekend's verbals.
Since all six of the 2013 class were rated Top 125, we did seem to freely taunt those ratings as validation as well.
I really wish Cal had recruited two inside players that he probably could have had in Reginald Buckner at Manassas (Ole Miss) and Jarvis Varnado of Haywood Country (Mississippi State). I felt at the time that those were two noticeable misses/omissions. Especially Varnado ... he was a shot blocking machine and we could have easily one extra game with him in the middle for 20 minutes.
(10-22-2013 02:24 PM)MemTGRS Wrote: [ -> ] (10-22-2013 02:06 PM)salukiblue Wrote: [ -> ]We try to have it both ways...we accept the fact that when services rate signees highly the services are spot on, but when services rate signees poorly, the services are useless.
Hard to argue with that. I recall a big sentiment here that Marcanvis Hymon was "not Memphis good" when he committed to Ole Miss. Yet he is rated much higher than either of the weekend's verbals.
Since all six of the 2013 class were rated Top 125, we did seem to freely taunt those ratings as validation as well.
I really wish Cal had recruited two inside players that he probably could have had in Reginald Buckner at Manassas (Ole Miss) and Jarvis Varnado of Haywood Country (Mississippi State). I felt at the time that those were two noticeable misses/omissions. Especially Varnado ... he was a shot blocking machine and we could have easily one extra game with him in the middle for 20 minutes.
My God we should have had Varnado.
He F-ed us up in that second round game.
(10-22-2013 02:24 PM)MemTGRS Wrote: [ -> ] (10-22-2013 02:06 PM)salukiblue Wrote: [ -> ]We try to have it both ways...we accept the fact that when services rate signees highly the services are spot on, but when services rate signees poorly, the services are useless.
Hard to argue with that. I recall a big sentiment here that Marcanvis Hymon was "not Memphis good" when he committed to Ole Miss. Yet he is rated much higher than either of the weekend's verbals.
Since all six of the 2013 class were rated Top 125, we did seem to freely taunt those ratings as validation as well.
I really wish Cal had recruited two inside players that he probably could have had in Reginald Buckner at Manassas (Ole Miss) and Jarvis Varnado of Haywood Country (Mississippi State). I felt at the time that those were two noticeable misses/omissions. Especially Varnado ... he was a shot blocking machine and we could have easily one extra game with him in the middle for 20 minutes.
Passing on Moultrie was a head scratcher, too.
(10-22-2013 03:25 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote: [ -> ] (10-22-2013 02:24 PM)MemTGRS Wrote: [ -> ] (10-22-2013 02:06 PM)salukiblue Wrote: [ -> ]We try to have it both ways...we accept the fact that when services rate signees highly the services are spot on, but when services rate signees poorly, the services are useless.
Hard to argue with that. I recall a big sentiment here that Marcanvis Hymon was "not Memphis good" when he committed to Ole Miss. Yet he is rated much higher than either of the weekend's verbals.
Since all six of the 2013 class were rated Top 125, we did seem to freely taunt those ratings as validation as well.
I really wish Cal had recruited two inside players that he probably could have had in Reginald Buckner at Manassas (Ole Miss) and Jarvis Varnado of Haywood Country (Mississippi State). I felt at the time that those were two noticeable misses/omissions. Especially Varnado ... he was a shot blocking machine and we could have easily one extra game with him in the middle for 20 minutes.
My God we should have had Varnado.
He F-ed us up in that second round game.
Was about to post the same thing. Because of him, Miss State played us closer than Texas, UCLA, and MSU.
(10-22-2013 03:47 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote: [ -> ] (10-22-2013 03:25 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote: [ -> ]My God we should have had Varnado.
He F-ed us up in that second round game.
Was about to post the same thing. Because of him, Miss State played us closer than Texas, UCLA, and MSU.
No doubt.
We were really the best team in the country and he single handedly altered the complextion of that game.
He had Dorsey so fired up that Joey had perhaps his best defensive game ever.
If not for Willie Kemp and those 3pters.......
(10-22-2013 01:05 PM)gotem Wrote: [ -> ]“I think junior college helps student-athletes because it prepared them to step in right away at the four-year level after two years, whereas many incoming [college] freshman go to NCAA schools unprepared, which has resulted in 40 percent of all college basketball players transferring by the end of their sophomore season,” Erickson wrote in an email.
Wow. I knew transferring was common but that number surprised me.
The real number is around 34%. High school is worse where over 50% transfer. Interesting too that those that transfer a lot in high school tend to transfer more in college. I suspect the college number would be much higher if they removed the sitting out stipulation.
(10-22-2013 02:06 PM)salukiblue Wrote: [ -> ] (10-22-2013 12:29 PM)TripleA Wrote: [ -> ]And in case anyone forgot, Geron Johnson came to us from a JUCO last year.
That doesn't really prove a point.
That is like saying (since DJ was a zero star) Memphis should go out and just recruit zero stars since they will all be like DJ.
We try to have it both ways...we accept the fact that when services rate signees highly the services are spot on, but when services rate signees poorly, the services are useless.
Often times the best way to judge recruits is by looking at the peer schools that are involved. It appears, for the most part, the schools really involved in these guys were not (here we go) "Memphis good."
I did not say it proved a point, at least not the one you're assuming. It's just one more piece of evidence to support the linked article, which has NOTHING to do with any of your argument.
The article doesn't say that Hawkins and Burrell are Memphis good. All it says is that the better talent has shifted from prep schools to JUCOs.
I linked it to give food for thought to those who simply dismiss JUCO players as not talented enough to play here. The article's premise is that line of thought is now outdated. A lot of you are making that assumption without having seen either one play a second of basketball.
I have no clue if they are good enough, or not. All I know is Josh obviously feels they are good enough.
As for your argument about looking at competing schools, it's a clue, like anything else, but I disagree it is the best measure. To me, the best measure is the long term recruiting track record of the specific coach. Plus, many big schools may not have a need for a certain position or skill set, or may have an idea they can't get a certain guy.
Not to mention, we don't need a team with 13 five stars. We need a few role players, too, who bring certain skills to the team, and are willing to subjugate their individual chance at the spotlight for the better good of the team.
Beyond that, nobody is trying to say Hawkins or Burrell is going to be a superstar, so I'm not sure why all the boo birds are out. Take a look at Josh's track record. I think he knows what he is doing.
The best evaluator is the coach. If he's ok with them, the rest is lip service.
(10-22-2013 07:17 PM)Pressed Rat Wrote: [ -> ]The best evaluator is the coach. If he's ok with them, the rest is lip service.
Exactly what I said. You just did a better job. And much more succinctly.
Coach Collins is reportedly known for finding diamonds in the rough. Maybe they will polish these guys.
(10-22-2013 08:09 PM)tigerbmw Wrote: [ -> ]Coach Collins is reportedly known for finding diamonds in the rough. Maybe they will polish these guys.
Pastner has also done that with a few Arizona recruits, so he has a track record in that area, too.