CSNbbs

FOIA-Charlotte paper got ahold of some of UNC's e-mails last year. UNC was looking around and very concerned.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/10...lf_0vnD_IW

This is great information. It shows the instability caused by Maryland's departure. Also shows you a glimpse into how the ACC was affected financially by the move.

Here you go... what most from the SEC have been saying for almost a year:

"Cunningham had no shortage of input. A steady stream of emails from alumni, fans and boosters began on Nov. 20.

The notes came from everywhere: from people who graduated from UNC in the 1960s, and those who graduated in the past few years. Former athletes wrote in. There were Rams Club members. And emails from fans who had no tie to the school other than their allegiance.

One came from an Army major who wrote of how he’d followed UNC athletics throughout deployments in Afghanistan and Iraq. He expressed concern about a conference move and wrote, “I will always love Carolina, but my fervor towards our athletic programs would die a rapid death should we choose to enter the BIG TEN.”

The emails – many coming after UNC fans on the message boards at InsideCarolina.com organized a push to fill Cunningham’s inbox – shared roughly the same sentiment: Lead the Tar Heels out of the crumbling ACC, to a better place. The overwhelming majority of fans preferred moving to the SEC. Among the more than 150 pages of emails that Cunningham received in the 10 days after Maryland’s announcement, only one email favored joining the Big Ten."

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/10...rylink=cpy

(10-11-2013 09:26 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote: [ -> ]Here you go... what most from the SEC have been saying for almost a year:

"Cunningham had no shortage of input. A steady stream of emails from alumni, fans and boosters began on Nov. 20.

The notes came from everywhere: from people who graduated from UNC in the 1960s, and those who graduated in the past few years. Former athletes wrote in. There were Rams Club members. And emails from fans who had no tie to the school other than their allegiance.

One came from an Army major who wrote of how he’d followed UNC athletics throughout deployments in Afghanistan and Iraq. He expressed concern about a conference move and wrote, “I will always love Carolina, but my fervor towards our athletic programs would die a rapid death should we choose to enter the BIG TEN.”

The emails – many coming after UNC fans on the message boards at InsideCarolina.com organized a push to fill Cunningham’s inbox – shared roughly the same sentiment: Lead the Tar Heels out of the crumbling ACC, to a better place. The overwhelming majority of fans preferred moving to the SEC. Among the more than 150 pages of emails that Cunningham received in the 10 days after Maryland’s announcement, only one email favored joining the Big Ten."

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/10...rylink=cpy

No one should be shocked that the fans prefer the SEC. What university leaders and academic-types would want could be an entirely different story.

(10-11-2013 09:00 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote: [ -> ]This is great information. It shows the instability caused by Maryland's departure. Also shows you a glimpse into how the ACC was affected financially by the move.

I thought it showed exactly the opposite. Although concern was raised due to rumors and uncertainty, I thought the article showed that the situation was managed with a steady hand and was resolved expeditiously even in the face of pressure from fans and alumni.

All of Cunningham's own e-mails showed calm and not panic. Never did the situation occur where it was teetering on the brink the way the Big XII was in the face of efforts by the PAC-12 to raid it's membership.

The key to the ACC life is the alliance of the 6 Virginia and North Carolina school's. IF those school's stick together its almost impossible to crack the acc. The sec could with overlap programs but that isn't who they want. Same thing with the big 10 and maybe pitt, syracuse, bc, etc. The only game changer that might have cracked the acc would be big 10 taking FSU. YEt, if the 6 pack of car/va school's still stuck together, the acc is fine even with fsu leaving...its really the 4 pack of uva, va tech, unc and duke. Those school's can build a nice eastern league post any sec or big 10 moves.

Strange... I must have missed the part where UNC-CH had a standing invitation to join B1G. I read on the internet that they turned B1G down.

(10-11-2013 09:55 AM)bluesox Wrote: [ -> ]the acc is fine even with fsu leaving...its really the 4 pack of uva, va tech, unc and duke. Those school's can build a nice eastern league post any sec or big 10 moves.

I guess it's debatable what constitutes "nice". Would they be able to keep their Orange Bowl tie long term? Probably not. If FSU is gone Clemson and Miami would have to be looking to tag along, too. The ACC would be the equivalent of the 2005-2011 Big East.

As for the article, that analyst from Wasserman isn't very good at his job. Clearly doing some very ACC-friendly math.

I think we all realize that the ACC will likely be 5th in payouts for the foreseeable future.

(10-11-2013 10:18 AM)Marge Schott Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-11-2013 09:55 AM)bluesox Wrote: [ -> ]the acc is fine even with fsu leaving...its really the 4 pack of uva, va tech, unc and duke. Those school's can build a nice eastern league post any sec or big 10 moves.

I guess it's debatable what constitutes "nice". Would they be able to keep their Orange Bowl tie long term? Probably not. If FSU is gone Clemson and Miami would have to be looking to tag along, too. The ACC would be the equivalent of the 2005-2011 Big East.

As for the article, that analyst from Wasserman isn't very good at his job. Clearly doing some very ACC-friendly math.

I think we all realize that the ACC will likely be 5th in payouts for the foreseeable future.

The 2005-11 Big East was a very good football league. If the ACC is that good, they won't have a problem.

(10-11-2013 10:16 AM)SeaBlue Wrote: [ -> ]Strange... I must have missed the part where UNC-CH had a standing invitation to join B1G. I read on the internet that they turned B1G down.

The SEC does not have pride about it... standing invite to UNC, UVA, and OU. It is more cultural for the SEC alumni/fans/administrations than academic, athletic, or even financial. You know how we in the SEC and South are timid and bashful compared to the B1G and the North... misery loves company

(10-11-2013 09:26 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote: [ -> ]The overwhelming majority of fans preferred moving to the SEC. Among the more than 150 pages of emails that Cunningham received in the 10 days after Maryland’s announcement, only one email favored joining the Big Ten."

That shows why this isn't just a game of Risk where you can swap and merge schools into any conference you want. Some schools just fit in some leagues and don't fit in other leagues, even if consultants come up with really nice projections with big dollar figures attached. And if you already have a strong base of boosters who donate money (like UNC does, and like UMd doesn't) then you listen to them.

Also, UNC's AD appears to have handled his email prudently. Everything that's "colorful" in that article is in something sent to him, not something written by him.

There are 5 stable leagues, but the growing disparity between sec/b10 and the rest is still a concern.

(10-11-2013 11:10 AM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote: [ -> ]There are 5 stable leagues, but the growing disparity between sec/b10 and the rest is still a concern.

3.

(10-11-2013 11:09 AM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-11-2013 09:26 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote: [ -> ]The overwhelming majority of fans preferred moving to the SEC. Among the more than 150 pages of emails that Cunningham received in the 10 days after Maryland’s announcement, only one email favored joining the Big Ten."

That shows why this isn't just a game of Risk where you can swap and merge schools into any conference you want. Some schools just fit in some leagues and don't fit in other leagues, even if consultants come up with really nice projections with big dollar figures attached. And if you already have a strong base of boosters who donate money (like UNC does, and like UMd doesn't) then you listen to them.

Also, UNC's AD appears to have handled his email prudently. Everything that's "colorful" in that article is in something sent to him, not something written by him.

Good point, Wedge. Cunningham is a miracle worker at keeping UNC out of a negative spotlight and in a power of position. As it pertains to the recent academic scandals at UNC, he has taken what Ohio State did during the Tressel/Smith/Gee debacle and done the exact opposite. I think the SEC has done a pretty good job of knowing what it is, and UNC fits in on many levels. Believe me, every state and campus has important people that do not fit the stereotypical SEC mold... just do a quick history read on Mike Slive. When I think UNC, the idea of joining and competing against South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Auburn, Tennessee, and Kentucky does not seem unnatural, especially if UVA were to join that mix.

(10-11-2013 09:55 AM)bluesox Wrote: [ -> ]The key to the ACC life is the alliance of the 6 Virginia and North Carolina school's. IF those school's stick together its almost impossible to crack the acc. The sec could with overlap programs but that isn't who they want. Same thing with the big 10 and maybe pitt, syracuse, bc, etc. The only game changer that might have cracked the acc would be big 10 taking FSU. YEt, if the 6 pack of car/va school's still stuck together, the acc is fine even with fsu leaving...its really the 4 pack of uva, va tech, unc and duke. Those school's can build a nice eastern league post any sec or big 10 moves.

Sorry but those four don't make the ABC Game of the Week. Without Clemson and FSU, the conference is AAC #2...

(10-11-2013 09:55 AM)bluesox Wrote: [ -> ]The key to the ACC life is the alliance of the 6 Virginia and North Carolina school's. IF those school's stick together its almost impossible to crack the acc. The sec could with overlap programs but that isn't who they want. Same thing with the big 10 and maybe pitt, syracuse, bc, etc. The only game changer that might have cracked the acc would be big 10 taking FSU. YEt, if the 6 pack of car/va school's still stuck together, the acc is fine even with fsu leaving...its really the 4 pack of uva, va tech, unc and duke. Those school's can build a nice eastern league post any sec or big 10 moves.

To me, the key to the ACC is UNC and FSU. As long as both institutions remain in the conference, it will not only continue to exist but it will be a player.

If FSU were to leave (and they wouldn't likely be leaving by themselves) even if the 4 NC schools and the 2 VA schools remain, the conference would exist but likely not be a player in the new landscape.

Cheers,
Neil

(10-11-2013 11:10 AM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote: [ -> ]There are 5 stable leagues, but the growing disparity between sec/b10 and the rest is still a concern.

Exactly. And the PAC remains insulated since neither of those two conferences will go that far west. Which is why it's the ACC and the B12 that while stable now remain a notch below those three conferences overall in terms of future stability beyond the current GORs.

Cheers,
Neil

(10-11-2013 11:22 AM)EerMeNow Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-11-2013 11:10 AM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote: [ -> ]There are 5 stable leagues, but the growing disparity between sec/b10 and the rest is still a concern.

3.

4

(10-11-2013 09:33 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-11-2013 09:26 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote: [ -> ]Here you go... what most from the SEC have been saying for almost a year:

"Cunningham had no shortage of input. A steady stream of emails from alumni, fans and boosters began on Nov. 20.

The notes came from everywhere: from people who graduated from UNC in the 1960s, and those who graduated in the past few years. Former athletes wrote in. There were Rams Club members. And emails from fans who had no tie to the school other than their allegiance.

One came from an Army major who wrote of how he’d followed UNC athletics throughout deployments in Afghanistan and Iraq. He expressed concern about a conference move and wrote, “I will always love Carolina, but my fervor towards our athletic programs would die a rapid death should we choose to enter the BIG TEN.”

The emails – many coming after UNC fans on the message boards at InsideCarolina.com organized a push to fill Cunningham’s inbox – shared roughly the same sentiment: Lead the Tar Heels out of the crumbling ACC, to a better place. The overwhelming majority of fans preferred moving to the SEC. Among the more than 150 pages of emails that Cunningham received in the 10 days after Maryland’s announcement, only one email favored joining the Big Ten."

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/10...rylink=cpy

No one should be shocked that the fans prefer the SEC. What university leaders and academic-types would want could be an entirely different story.

It better not be the B1G they want Frank or I promise you we'll have new university leaders if the athletic boosters aren't happy ...
See Thorp, Holden

(10-11-2013 11:25 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote: [ -> ]Good point, Wedge. Cunningham is a miracle worker at keeping UNC out of a negative spotlight and in a power of position. As it pertains to the recent academic scandals at UNC, he has taken what Ohio State did during the Tressel/Smith/Gee debacle and done the exact opposite. I think the SEC has done a pretty good job of knowing what it is, and UNC fits in on many levels. Believe me, every state and campus has important people that do not fit the stereotypical SEC mold... just do a quick history read on Mike Slive. When I think UNC, the idea of joining and competing against South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Auburn, Tennessee, and Kentucky does not seem unnatural, especially if UVA were to join that mix.

Once again, though, that's just looking at it from a sports perspective. From an academic and institutional perspective, UVA and UNC are much more like Big Ten schools. (And yes, no matter what football-focused fans want to believe, academic prestige absolutely matters here.) That's really the advantage that the ACC has in retaining both of those schools (particularly UNC) - it's still Southern-based in culture but has the requisite academic prestige. The ACC fits UNC both in terms of athletic culture and academic prestige, whereas they'd be giving up on one of those fronts in either the Big Ten and SEC. That's a pretty powerful combo no matter how much money either the Big Ten or SEC could throw at UNC, not to mention the disproportionate power and influence that UNC has in the ACC that could never be replicated anywhere else. It's a very similar situation as Texas (another high-minded academic institution that wants control even more than money).