CSNbbs

There been talk here and there (message boards, radio, twitter) about ODU and the fact they never line-up under center, don't bring a big, bruising back in, especially on 3rd and 4th and short. There's been some talk that seem to say we're not actually good in these situations because of this, but most of the evidence is anecdotal. That doesn't mean it's wrong, but there's nothing concrete.

So I thought I'd take a look at the play-by-play and see how we do.

A few things to keep in mind:
1--ODU doesn't seem have a lot of 3rd and 4th and shorts because the offense is so powerful.

2--There was talk about how bad our defense was at stopping people on 3rd down. As bad as our defense is at that, our offense is just as good at converting them. Overall we are 48/90, or 53.3% on offense, and opponents are 52/93, or 55.9%. However, that's not the plays we were talking about-we're talking about short yardage.

3--Before I get to the numbers, let me tell you what I looked at. Your mileage may vary. I defined short yardage as 3 or fewer yards for the first down or TD. I also didn't look at 2nd and short because with our offense, I don't want a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" on 2nd and 3. Our offense is too good to do that. So, 3rd and 4th down plays, with 3 or fewer yards to go.

ECU: 3/5
UMD: 3/7
Howard: 2/2
Citadel: 3/4
Albany: 5/6
Liberty: 4/9

Against FBS: 6/12, 50%
Against FCS: 14/21, 67% (And 10/12 before Liberty game, or 83.3%)

So, we struggled some against the big boys (but really only against Maryland) and until last week were almost automatic against FCS.

So, what does it mean? Personally, I think the FBS numbers are a bit (not totally) meaningless--we are outclassed physically in those games. I think we actually have a better shot passing than trying to play smashmouth with them. But until an off-game against Liberty we only failed converting a 3rd and short twice. And that's a bit misleading, because on one of them, the defense was assessed a late hit penalty on Heinicke to give us the first anyway, and on the second, against Albany, our 3rd and 2 play gained a yard, and we then converted on 4th down. So, until last week, in FCS games ODU did not have a single drive end because we could not convert on 3rd or 4th down.

So, you can think that the Liberty game struggles are meaningful, even though, outside of the Maryland game they never happened again, or we can hope that the Liberty game was just a down game and not indicative of our team struggling on short yardage plays because we don't have a Jerome Bettis back there.

I'm not against adding more to our offense, but I think that BW trusts Heinicke so much that he's just comfortable letting him sit back there and pick teams apart.

I frankly take the homecoming game with a grain of salt. Wilder needs to lock these kids in a room homecoming weekend going forward. Don't know if they are out partying or what, but they clearly aren't there mentally.

Our running backs come from middle earth, where we have a pipeline to the best hobbit running backs.

(10-08-2013 04:00 PM)Sirloin Burger Wrote: [ -> ]Our running backs come from middle earth, where we have a pipeline to the best hobbit running backs.

i love that.

(10-08-2013 03:41 PM)djnva Wrote: [ -> ]There been talk here and there (message boards, radio, twitter) about ODU and the fact they never line-up under center, don't bring a big, bruising back in, especially on 3rd and 4th and short. There's been some talk that seem to say we're not actually good in these situations because of this, but most of the evidence is anecdotal. That doesn't mean it's wrong, but there's nothing concrete.

So I thought I'd take a look at the play-by-play and see how we do.

A few things to keep in mind:
1--ODU doesn't seem have a lot of 3rd and 4th and shorts because the offense is so powerful.

2--There was talk about how bad our defense was at stopping people on 3rd down. As bad as our defense is at that, our offense is just as good at converting them. Overall we are 48/90, or 53.3% on offense, and opponents are 52/93, or 55.9%. However, that's not the plays we were talking about-we're talking about short yardage.

3--Before I get to the numbers, let me tell you what I looked at. Your mileage may vary. I defined short yardage as 3 or fewer yards for the first down or TD. I also didn't look at 2nd and short because with our offense, I don't want a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" on 2nd and 3. Our offense is too good to do that. So, 3rd and 4th down plays, with 3 or fewer yards to go.

ECU: 3/5
UMD: 3/7
Howard: 2/2
Citadel: 3/4
Albany: 5/6
Liberty: 4/9

Against FBS: 6/12, 50%
Against FCS: 14/21, 67% (And 10/12 before Liberty game, or 83.3%)

So, we struggled some against the big boys (but really only against Maryland) and until last week were almost automatic against FCS.

So, what does it mean? Personally, I think the FBS numbers are a bit (not totally) meaningless--we are outclassed physically in those games. I think we actually have a better shot passing than trying to play smashmouth with them. But until an off-game against Liberty we only failed converting a 3rd and short twice. And that's a bit misleading, because on one of them, the defense was assessed a late hit penalty on Heinicke to give us the first anyway, and on the second, against Albany, our 3rd and 2 play gained a yard, and we then converted on 4th down. So, until last week, in FCS games ODU did not have a single drive end because we could not convert on 3rd or 4th down.

So, you can think that the Liberty game struggles are meaningful, even though, outside of the Maryland game they never happened again, or we can hope that the Liberty game was just a down game and not indicative of our team struggling on short yardage plays because we don't have a Jerome Bettis back there.

I'm not against adding more to our offense, but I think that BW trusts Heinicke so much that he's just comfortable letting him sit back there and pick teams apart.

First of all, that is not entirely true. It did happen outside of UMD. Villanova last year went to a dime package after going down 2 touchdowns and shut us down completely. Same type of deal as UMD and LU.


Randy Edsall of UMD described his defensive gameplan against us in detail after the game. He admitted to giving us the middle, especially the run.
He admitted that he didn't care about yardage between the 20s; just like LU.
LU knew it had NFL caliber DBs and essentially used the Villanova/UMD formula.

Granted, it requires big, fast athletic DBs, and in FCS that is not the order of the day. However, going forward, we will see FBS teams stacking against us, and daring us to run. Inside the 20s we are IMHO, going to have to develop a running game.

(10-08-2013 03:41 PM)djnva Wrote: [ -> ]There been talk here and there (message boards, radio, twitter) about ODU and the fact they never line-up under center, don't bring a big, bruising back in, especially on 3rd and 4th and short. There's been some talk that seem to say we're not actually good in these situations because of this, but most of the evidence is anecdotal. That doesn't mean it's wrong, but there's nothing concrete.

So I thought I'd take a look at the play-by-play and see how we do.

A few things to keep in mind:
1--ODU doesn't seem have a lot of 3rd and 4th and shorts because the offense is so powerful.

2--There was talk about how bad our defense was at stopping people on 3rd down. As bad as our defense is at that, our offense is just as good at converting them. Overall we are 48/90, or 53.3% on offense, and opponents are 52/93, or 55.9%. However, that's not the plays we were talking about-we're talking about short yardage.

3--Before I get to the numbers, let me tell you what I looked at. Your mileage may vary. I defined short yardage as 3 or fewer yards for the first down or TD. I also didn't look at 2nd and short because with our offense, I don't want a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" on 2nd and 3. Our offense is too good to do that. So, 3rd and 4th down plays, with 3 or fewer yards to go.

ECU: 3/5
UMD: 3/7
Howard: 2/2
Citadel: 3/4
Albany: 5/6
Liberty: 4/9

Against FBS: 6/12, 50%
Against FCS: 14/21, 67% (And 10/12 before Liberty game, or 83.3%)

So, we struggled some against the big boys (but really only against Maryland) and until last week were almost automatic against FCS.

So, what does it mean? Personally, I think the FBS numbers are a bit (not totally) meaningless--we are outclassed physically in those games. I think we actually have a better shot passing than trying to play smashmouth with them. But until an off-game against Liberty we only failed converting a 3rd and short twice. And that's a bit misleading, because on one of them, the defense was assessed a late hit penalty on Heinicke to give us the first anyway, and on the second, against Albany, our 3rd and 2 play gained a yard, and we then converted on 4th down. So, until last week, in FCS games ODU did not have a single drive end because we could not convert on 3rd or 4th down.

So, you can think that the Liberty game struggles are meaningful, even though, outside of the Maryland game they never happened again, or we can hope that the Liberty game was just a down game and not indicative of our team struggling on short yardage plays because we don't have a Jerome Bettis back there.

I'm not against adding more to our offense, but I think that BW trusts Heinicke so much that he's just comfortable letting him sit back there and pick teams apart.

Thanks for the stats, DJ. You're right, it seems anecdotal since we tend to notice these occurrences more when they don't work, but it's good to see the numbers up close. While the sample size is small, MD and Liberty had the 2 best Defenses we've played against this year, and we struggled to convert during both games. What I'm hoping is that this does not signal a trend. We'll be facing better defenses next year, most of whom will be more prepared by watching tape on what MD, Liberty and Villanova have done to shut down Heinicke. I'd like to see us stay ahead of the curve and find multiple ways to combat short yardage situations so that we don't need to rely exclusively on Heinicke.

(10-08-2013 04:02 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote: [ -> ]First of all, that is not entirely true. It did happen outside of UMD. Villanova last year went to a dime package after going down 2 touchdowns and shut us down completely. Same type of deal as UMD and LU.

Actually, it didn't. At least what we're talking about didn't. Villanova shut our offense down. They did not stop us in short yardage situations. We were 4 for 6 in short yardage situations and that's what we're talking about, not how certain defenses can slow ODU down.

I guess this is my point--there are going to be games where the offense struggles. If you only take you cue from these games of course certain areas look bad. But when looked at as a whole, our offense doesn't bog down *because* we don't have a bulldozer back there, it bogs down because the entire offense isn't playing well that day.

And of the 3 games we've looked at where the offense struggled (Nova, UMD, Liberty) one was a team out of our class and one was a game where we still had 500+ yards of offense and won.

(10-08-2013 07:31 PM)djnva Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-08-2013 04:02 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote: [ -> ]First of all, that is not entirely true. It did happen outside of UMD. Villanova last year went to a dime package after going down 2 touchdowns and shut us down completely. Same type of deal as UMD and LU.

Actually, it didn't. At least what we're talking about didn't. Villanova shut our offense down. They did not stop us in short yardage situations. We were 4 for 6 in short yardage situations and that's what we're talking about, not how certain defenses can slow ODU down.

I guess this is my point--there are going to be games where the offense struggles. If you only take you cue from these games of course certain areas look bad. But when looked at as a whole, our offense doesn't bog down *because* we don't have a bulldozer back there, it bogs down because the entire offense isn't playing well that day.

And of the 3 games we've looked at where the offense struggled (Nova, UMD, Liberty) one was a team out of our class and one was a game where we still had 500+ yards of offense and won.

OK, we are talking apples and oranges then.
I am not concerned about short yardage situations unless they are inside the 20s.
As I stated, Randy Edsall (UMD head coach) made it a point to say that he wasn't at all concerned about how much we gained outside the 20s.

UMD and LU (and 'Nova as well) ran a prevent against us inside the 20s.
UMD even played the pass at 1st and goal at the 2.

When a team is so convinced that we can't or won't run it in from the 2 that they play pass, and indeed we pass and it is either batted down or intercepted, then we have a problem that must be addressed as we move forward; IMHO.

(10-08-2013 03:41 PM)djnva Wrote: [ -> ]There been talk here and there (message boards, radio, twitter) about ODU and the fact they never line-up under center, don't bring a big, bruising back in, especially on 3rd and 4th and short. There's been some talk that seem to say we're not actually good in these situations because of this, but most of the evidence is anecdotal. That doesn't mean it's wrong, but there's nothing concrete.

So I thought I'd take a look at the play-by-play and see how we do.

A few things to keep in mind:
1--ODU doesn't seem have a lot of 3rd and 4th and shorts because the offense is so powerful.

2--There was talk about how bad our defense was at stopping people on 3rd down. As bad as our defense is at that, our offense is just as good at converting them. Overall we are 48/90, or 53.3% on offense, and opponents are 52/93, or 55.9%. However, that's not the plays we were talking about-we're talking about short yardage.

3--Before I get to the numbers, let me tell you what I looked at. Your mileage may vary. I defined short yardage as 3 or fewer yards for the first down or TD. I also didn't look at 2nd and short because with our offense, I don't want a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" on 2nd and 3. Our offense is too good to do that. So, 3rd and 4th down plays, with 3 or fewer yards to go.

ECU: 3/5
UMD: 3/7
Howard: 2/2
Citadel: 3/4
Albany: 5/6
Liberty: 4/9

Against FBS: 6/12, 50%
Against FCS: 14/21, 67% (And 10/12 before Liberty game, or 83.3%)

So, we struggled some against the big boys (but really only against Maryland) and until last week were almost automatic against FCS.

So, what does it mean? Personally, I think the FBS numbers are a bit (not totally) meaningless--we are outclassed physically in those games. I think we actually have a better shot passing than trying to play smashmouth with them. But until an off-game against Liberty we only failed converting a 3rd and short twice. And that's a bit misleading, because on one of them, the defense was assessed a late hit penalty on Heinicke to give us the first anyway, and on the second, against Albany, our 3rd and 2 play gained a yard, and we then converted on 4th down. So, until last week, in FCS games ODU did not have a single drive end because we could not convert on 3rd or 4th down.

So, you can think that the Liberty game struggles are meaningful, even though, outside of the Maryland game they never happened again, or we can hope that the Liberty game was just a down game and not indicative of our team struggling on short yardage plays because we don't have a Jerome Bettis back there.

I'm not against adding more to our offense, but I think that BW trusts Heinicke so much that he's just comfortable letting him sit back there and pick teams apart.

Thanks DJ. The stats you provide tell a lot about what we are really seeing. I believe like you say that BW just feels strongly about TH and the offense being able to convert almost at will. It does not always happen that way, but we certainly have been more successful than most doing it BW's way. We might see us start to use the quick pass to the back out of the backfield (aka a long handoff). Many teams use that philosophy when they feel they can't run right up the gut.

(10-08-2013 08:40 PM)Tbac3 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-08-2013 03:41 PM)djnva Wrote: [ -> ]There been talk here and there (message boards, radio, twitter) about ODU and the fact they never line-up under center, don't bring a big, bruising back in, especially on 3rd and 4th and short. There's been some talk that seem to say we're not actually good in these situations because of this, but most of the evidence is anecdotal. That doesn't mean it's wrong, but there's nothing concrete.

So I thought I'd take a look at the play-by-play and see how we do.

A few things to keep in mind:
1--ODU doesn't seem have a lot of 3rd and 4th and shorts because the offense is so powerful.

2--There was talk about how bad our defense was at stopping people on 3rd down. As bad as our defense is at that, our offense is just as good at converting them. Overall we are 48/90, or 53.3% on offense, and opponents are 52/93, or 55.9%. However, that's not the plays we were talking about-we're talking about short yardage.

3--Before I get to the numbers, let me tell you what I looked at. Your mileage may vary. I defined short yardage as 3 or fewer yards for the first down or TD. I also didn't look at 2nd and short because with our offense, I don't want a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" on 2nd and 3. Our offense is too good to do that. So, 3rd and 4th down plays, with 3 or fewer yards to go.

ECU: 3/5
UMD: 3/7
Howard: 2/2
Citadel: 3/4
Albany: 5/6
Liberty: 4/9

Against FBS: 6/12, 50%
Against FCS: 14/21, 67% (And 10/12 before Liberty game, or 83.3%)

So, we struggled some against the big boys (but really only against Maryland) and until last week were almost automatic against FCS.

So, what does it mean? Personally, I think the FBS numbers are a bit (not totally) meaningless--we are outclassed physically in those games. I think we actually have a better shot passing than trying to play smashmouth with them. But until an off-game against Liberty we only failed converting a 3rd and short twice. And that's a bit misleading, because on one of them, the defense was assessed a late hit penalty on Heinicke to give us the first anyway, and on the second, against Albany, our 3rd and 2 play gained a yard, and we then converted on 4th down. So, until last week, in FCS games ODU did not have a single drive end because we could not convert on 3rd or 4th down.

So, you can think that the Liberty game struggles are meaningful, even though, outside of the Maryland game they never happened again, or we can hope that the Liberty game was just a down game and not indicative of our team struggling on short yardage plays because we don't have a Jerome Bettis back there.

I'm not against adding more to our offense, but I think that BW trusts Heinicke so much that he's just comfortable letting him sit back there and pick teams apart.

Thanks DJ. The stats you provide tell a lot about what we are really seeing. I believe like you say that BW just feels strongly about TH and the offense being able to convert almost at will. It does not always happen that way, but we certainly have been more successful than most doing it BW's way. We might see us start to use the quick pass to the back out of the backfield (aka a long handoff). Many teams use that philosophy when they feel they can't run right up the gut.

We did that in the UMD game...and got a safety.

(10-08-2013 08:48 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-08-2013 08:40 PM)Tbac3 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-08-2013 03:41 PM)djnva Wrote: [ -> ]There been talk here and there (message boards, radio, twitter) about ODU and the fact they never line-up under center, don't bring a big, bruising back in, especially on 3rd and 4th and short. There's been some talk that seem to say we're not actually good in these situations because of this, but most of the evidence is anecdotal. That doesn't mean it's wrong, but there's nothing concrete.

So I thought I'd take a look at the play-by-play and see how we do.

A few things to keep in mind:
1--ODU doesn't seem have a lot of 3rd and 4th and shorts because the offense is so powerful.

2--There was talk about how bad our defense was at stopping people on 3rd down. As bad as our defense is at that, our offense is just as good at converting them. Overall we are 48/90, or 53.3% on offense, and opponents are 52/93, or 55.9%. However, that's not the plays we were talking about-we're talking about short yardage.

3--Before I get to the numbers, let me tell you what I looked at. Your mileage may vary. I defined short yardage as 3 or fewer yards for the first down or TD. I also didn't look at 2nd and short because with our offense, I don't want a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" on 2nd and 3. Our offense is too good to do that. So, 3rd and 4th down plays, with 3 or fewer yards to go.

ECU: 3/5
UMD: 3/7
Howard: 2/2
Citadel: 3/4
Albany: 5/6
Liberty: 4/9

Against FBS: 6/12, 50%
Against FCS: 14/21, 67% (And 10/12 before Liberty game, or 83.3%)

So, we struggled some against the big boys (but really only against Maryland) and until last week were almost automatic against FCS.

So, what does it mean? Personally, I think the FBS numbers are a bit (not totally) meaningless--we are outclassed physically in those games. I think we actually have a better shot passing than trying to play smashmouth with them. But until an off-game against Liberty we only failed converting a 3rd and short twice. And that's a bit misleading, because on one of them, the defense was assessed a late hit penalty on Heinicke to give us the first anyway, and on the second, against Albany, our 3rd and 2 play gained a yard, and we then converted on 4th down. So, until last week, in FCS games ODU did not have a single drive end because we could not convert on 3rd or 4th down.

So, you can think that the Liberty game struggles are meaningful, even though, outside of the Maryland game they never happened again, or we can hope that the Liberty game was just a down game and not indicative of our team struggling on short yardage plays because we don't have a Jerome Bettis back there.

I'm not against adding more to our offense, but I think that BW trusts Heinicke so much that he's just comfortable letting him sit back there and pick teams apart.

Thanks DJ. The stats you provide tell a lot about what we are really seeing. I believe like you say that BW just feels strongly about TH and the offense being able to convert almost at will. It does not always happen that way, but we certainly have been more successful than most doing it BW's way. We might see us start to use the quick pass to the back out of the backfield (aka a long handoff). Many teams use that philosophy when they feel they can't run right up the gut.

We did that in the UMD game...and got a safety.

No we didn't. We threw a WR bubble screen which is completely different than throwing to a back out of the backfield as WRs block downfield or run a route to get DBs to back off the line of scrimmage.

(10-08-2013 08:57 PM)Tbac3 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-08-2013 08:48 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-08-2013 08:40 PM)Tbac3 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-08-2013 03:41 PM)djnva Wrote: [ -> ]There been talk here and there (message boards, radio, twitter) about ODU and the fact they never line-up under center, don't bring a big, bruising back in, especially on 3rd and 4th and short. There's been some talk that seem to say we're not actually good in these situations because of this, but most of the evidence is anecdotal. That doesn't mean it's wrong, but there's nothing concrete.

So I thought I'd take a look at the play-by-play and see how we do.

A few things to keep in mind:
1--ODU doesn't seem have a lot of 3rd and 4th and shorts because the offense is so powerful.

2--There was talk about how bad our defense was at stopping people on 3rd down. As bad as our defense is at that, our offense is just as good at converting them. Overall we are 48/90, or 53.3% on offense, and opponents are 52/93, or 55.9%. However, that's not the plays we were talking about-we're talking about short yardage.

3--Before I get to the numbers, let me tell you what I looked at. Your mileage may vary. I defined short yardage as 3 or fewer yards for the first down or TD. I also didn't look at 2nd and short because with our offense, I don't want a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" on 2nd and 3. Our offense is too good to do that. So, 3rd and 4th down plays, with 3 or fewer yards to go.

ECU: 3/5
UMD: 3/7
Howard: 2/2
Citadel: 3/4
Albany: 5/6
Liberty: 4/9

Against FBS: 6/12, 50%
Against FCS: 14/21, 67% (And 10/12 before Liberty game, or 83.3%)

So, we struggled some against the big boys (but really only against Maryland) and until last week were almost automatic against FCS.

So, what does it mean? Personally, I think the FBS numbers are a bit (not totally) meaningless--we are outclassed physically in those games. I think we actually have a better shot passing than trying to play smashmouth with them. But until an off-game against Liberty we only failed converting a 3rd and short twice. And that's a bit misleading, because on one of them, the defense was assessed a late hit penalty on Heinicke to give us the first anyway, and on the second, against Albany, our 3rd and 2 play gained a yard, and we then converted on 4th down. So, until last week, in FCS games ODU did not have a single drive end because we could not convert on 3rd or 4th down.

So, you can think that the Liberty game struggles are meaningful, even though, outside of the Maryland game they never happened again, or we can hope that the Liberty game was just a down game and not indicative of our team struggling on short yardage plays because we don't have a Jerome Bettis back there.

I'm not against adding more to our offense, but I think that BW trusts Heinicke so much that he's just comfortable letting him sit back there and pick teams apart.

Thanks DJ. The stats you provide tell a lot about what we are really seeing. I believe like you say that BW just feels strongly about TH and the offense being able to convert almost at will. It does not always happen that way, but we certainly have been more successful than most doing it BW's way. We might see us start to use the quick pass to the back out of the backfield (aka a long handoff). Many teams use that philosophy when they feel they can't run right up the gut.

We did that in the UMD game...and got a safety.

No we didn't. We threw a WR bubble screen which is completely different than throwing to a back out of the backfield as WRs block downfield or run a route to get DBs to back off the line of scrimmage.

Fair enough

(10-08-2013 08:48 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote: [ -> ]We did that in the UMD game...and got a safety.

I know this isn't what you mean, but it seems like you think there's this offense out there that will convert 100% of the time. It's just not going to happen.

There's been 3 games in 2 years where the offense was sketchy. That's not bad, especially since we won 1 of them and another was against Maryland.

(10-09-2013 09:44 AM)djnva Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-08-2013 08:48 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote: [ -> ]We did that in the UMD game...and got a safety.

I know this isn't what you mean, but it seems like you think there's this offense out there that will convert 100% of the time. It's just not going to happen.

There's been 3 games in 2 years where the offense was sketchy. That's not bad, especially since we won 1 of them and another was against Maryland.

I was attempting humor with that remark.

However, what I do know, even from my paltry high school career, is that even dumb ol' jock coaches eventually pick up on things.
Just like the baseball pitcher that comes out and dominates initially, but eventually hitters pick up on the movement of his ball and that same unbeatable pitcher becomes ordinary.

Forget Villanova.
What I saw in the UMD game was a planned defense designed to exploit our simplicity of scheme.
Terp coach Randy Edsall (and he is anything but a dumb ol' jock) couldn't have been more specific in describing his approach to our offense after the fact.

Liberty did essentially the same thing with a different prevent set (dime vs quarters).
I asked on another thread if any team had ever done this to us (full prevent even in short yardage and in the red zone), because I don't know, but I cannot remember it.

So from my perspective, Liberty, who also has FBS caliber DBs, copied UMD's approach to defending against our offense, with almost identical results. I posted the red zone drives on the other thread. As with UMD, it wasn't so much Heinicke having a bad day, but indeed having few if any open options available, because of the opposition scheme and quality of DBs.
Further, both games allowed for interceptions because deep DBs in coverage were allowed to hang back and come in at the last minute to intercept or break up the play. Very difficult to read for the QB.

I see this as a one dimensional red zone scheme there for the exploitation.

Look at all of our drives inside the 20 this year against all teams.
We do the same thing every time.
Look at the drives inside the 20 vs UMD and the LU

Quote:1st and 10 at LIB 12
Colby Goodwyn rush for a loss of 1 yard to the Liber 13, tackled by Scott Hyland and Erwin Dessources.
2nd and 11 at LIB 13
Taylor Heinicke pass complete to Jakwail Bailey for 6 yards to the Liber 7, tackled by Walt Aikens.
3rd and 5 at LIB 7
Taylor Heinicke pass complete to Jakwail Bailey for 4 yards to the Liber 3, tackled by Walt Aikens.
4th and 1 at LIB 3
Taylor Heinicke pass complete to Marquel Thomas for a loss of 1 yard to the Liber 4, tackled by Scott Hyland.
DRIVE TOTALS: ODU drive: 14 plays 65 yards, 00:00 ODU DOWNS

1st and 10 at LIB 12
Colby Goodwyn rush for no gain to the Liber 12, tackled by Wesley Scott.
2nd and 10 at LIB 12
Taylor Heinicke pass complete to Blair Roberts for 12 yards for a TOUCHDOWN.
Jarod Brown extra point GOOD.
DRIVE TOTALS: ODU drive: 7 plays 65 yards, 02:06 ODU TD

1st and 10 at LIB 22
Cam Boyd rush for 2 yards to the Liber 20, tackled by Wesley Scott.
2nd and 8 at LIB 20
Taylor Heinicke pass complete to Blair Roberts for 7 yards to the Liber 13, tackled by Bobby Partilla.
3rd and 1 at LIB 13
Taylor Heinicke pass complete to Larry Pinkard for no gain to the Liber 13, tackled by Bobby Partilla and Toby Onyechi.
4th and 1 at LIB 13
Timeout Liberty, clock 05:01.
4th and 1 at LIB 13
Taylor Heinicke pass complete to Cam Boyd for a loss of 2 yards, fumbled, recovered by Liber at the Liber 15.
DRIVE TOTALS: ODU drive: 8 plays 43 yards, 02:30 ODU FUMB
We lose on downs even w/o the fumble

1st and 10 at LIB 18
Taylor Heinicke rush for 8 yards to the Liber 10, tackled by Wesley Scott and Nick Sigmon.
2nd and 2 at LIB 10
Colby Goodwyn rush for 6 yards to the Liber 4, tackled by Jibrille Fewell for a 1ST down.
1st and Goal at LIB 4
Colby Goodwyn rush for no gain to the Liber 4, tackled by Kevin Fogg and Toby Onyechi.
2nd and Goal at LIB 4
Taylor Heinicke pass incomplete to Blair Roberts, broken up by Kenny Scott.
3rd and Goal at LIB 4
Taylor Heinicke pass intercepted by Kenny Scott at the Liber 0, returned for no gain for a touchback.
DRIVE TOTALS: ODU drive: 8 plays 72 yards, 00:00 ODU INT

1st and 10 at LIB 30
Cam Boyd rush for 6 yards to the Liber 24, tackled by Gerald Holt and Dylan Lewellyn.
2nd and 4 at LIB 24
Taylor Heinicke pass complete to Zach Pascal for 3 yards to the Liber 21, tackled by Kenny Scott.
3rd and 1 at LIB 21
Cam Boyd rush for 4 yards to the Liber 17, tackled by Scott Hyland and Gerald Holt for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at LIB 17
Cam Boyd rush for a loss of 3 yards to the Liber 20, tackled by Cory Freeman.
2nd and 13 at LIB 20
Taylor Heinicke pass intercepted by Kenny Scott at the Liber 0, returned for 16 yards to the Liber 16, tackled by Ely Anderson.
DRIVE TOTALS: ODU drive: 8 plays 40 yards, 02:33 ODU INT


Our only TH drive inside the UMD 20
UMD
2nd and 9 at MD 13
Taylor Heinicke rush for 5 yards to the Mary 8.
3rd and 4 at MD 8
Colby Goodwyn rush for 4 yards to the Mary 4 for a 1ST down.
1st and Goal at MD 4
Colby Goodwyn rush for 2 yards to the Mary 2.
2nd and Goal at MD 2
Taylor Heinicke pass incomplete to Blair Roberts.
3rd and Goal at MD 2
Taylor Heinicke pass intercepted by Yannick Ngakoue at the Mary 5, returned for 3 yards to the Mary 8.
DRIVE TOTALS: OLDDOMNION drive: 13 plays 73 yards, 04:28 OLDDOMNION INT

The above drive summaries are a microcosm of virtually all of our drives.
From my perspective, Randy Edsall presented a template to solve our offense, especially in the red zone, that requires only the proper scheme and athletes of a certain ability. Liberty employed that same philosophy.

Designing a gameplan in football is about analyzing patterns. If the opposition is good enough, you cannot stop them even if you know what they are going to do.
As can be see above; and almost every red zone drive in almost every game in the Heinicke era (removing the designed QB runs this year), our pattern is simple and predictable. We have been good enough to overwhelm most defenses anyway.

As we move forward into FBS we will face better athletes, but we will also have better ones ourselves. However, as with Randy Edsall we will also face better coaches, and as such we may have to devise fallback schemes in order to compensate.

You realized we put up nearly 600 yards vs Liberty, right? We shot ourselves in the foot to a much greater degree than they "shut us down".

(10-09-2013 10:40 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote: [ -> ]I have discovered that presenting anything that contradicts the notion that Bobby Wilder is God and Taylor Heinicke was born of a virgin is not accepted by everyone on this board.

That's a way to encourage good discussion in what was a pretty decent, non-name calling thread.

(10-09-2013 10:58 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]You realized we put up nearly 600 yards vs Liberty, right? We shot ourselves in the foot to a much greater degree than they "shut us down".

As per UMD coach Randy Edsall "We weren't concerned with ODU gaining big yardage between the 20s. They are going to get that no matter what. We wanted to confound them inside the red zone"

(10-09-2013 11:02 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-09-2013 10:58 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]You realized we put up nearly 600 yards vs Liberty, right? We shot ourselves in the foot to a much greater degree than they "shut us down".

As per UMD coach Randy Edsall "We weren't concerned with ODU gaining big yardage between the 20s. They are going to get that no matter what. We wanted to confound them inside the red zone"

You keep referencing the one game in 2 seasons where we were completely overmatched in a number of areas as proof we have issues...I don't know, scoring points?

Outside of that one game, we played crappy against Nova and won against Liberty and basically droped 50+ points on most everyone else.

It's like finding a game where Lebron was 4-14 from the field and claiming he needs to change his offensive game.

(10-09-2013 11:09 AM)djnva Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-09-2013 11:02 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-09-2013 10:58 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]You realized we put up nearly 600 yards vs Liberty, right? We shot ourselves in the foot to a much greater degree than they "shut us down".

As per UMD coach Randy Edsall "We weren't concerned with ODU gaining big yardage between the 20s. They are going to get that no matter what. We wanted to confound them inside the red zone"

You keep referencing the one game in 2 seasons where we were completely overmatched in a number of areas as proof we have issues...I don't know, scoring points?

Outside of that one game, we played crappy against Nova and won against Liberty and basically droped 50+ points on most everyone else.

It's like finding a game where Lebron was 4-14 from the field and claiming he needs to change his offensive game.

Your comment was fair on the other issue, fixed.

Forget Villanova, it is not applicable to my analysis as we never even got into the red zone.

My premise is based on a defensive philosophy presented by UMD and the documented specifically by the UMD coach, that I had not seen used against before.
It then was presented again by Liberty, with similar results.

After looking carefully, I don't see why any team with FBS caliber DBs and a competent DL couldn't do the same.
Specifically my analysis of what we do in the red zone.

(10-09-2013 11:02 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-09-2013 10:58 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]You realized we put up nearly 600 yards vs Liberty, right? We shot ourselves in the foot to a much greater degree than they "shut us down".

As per UMD coach Randy Edsall "We weren't concerned with ODU gaining big yardage between the 20s. They are going to get that no matter what. We wanted to confound them inside the red zone"

That is what every head coach says when they play an explosive offense.