This is the document from the ESPN story.
This makes it very clear that the new "FBS Division" will include all FBS conferences. In fact if you look at the cover page the board of representatives include Southern Mississippi of C-USA, Cincinnati of the AAC and Troy of the SBC. (They aren't on a board to create a new division they're not a part of.)
Few observations:
- All 10 FBS conferences are splitting off from the rest of Division 1 and will make their own rules.
- The Big 5 will have weighted votes (similar to today already)
- Most, if not all, basketball-only conferences will NOT be part however their was some wording that a select couple like the Big East could be.
- It clearly states there is no desire for just the Big 5 to breakaway as there wouldnt be enough teams to compete.
- The basketball tournament will not change and the non-FBS Division teams will still be invited, however it the document "recognizes" there will be additional competitive stress placed on them (they wont be offering stipends and will make recruiting harder)
Link:
http://www.oneafar.org/Governance_Proposal.pdf
Objectives:
(4) the FBS must be the master of its own fate, particularly with regard to matters of enhancement of the student-athlete experience that depend on increased revenue allocation
Division I/FBS combined championships rather than separate FBS championships
Third, because we believe that the Division I championship structure works well, we see no good reason to isolate FBS teams and conferences. (Moreover, although we have not examined competition numbers, we wonder whether some FBS-only championships would have a sufficient number of teams and student-athletes to warrant separate championships.
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Is this going to cause a panic among mid-major bball schools to make a viable division that can "make the cut" in the new division?
I wish they could find a way to allow more deserving teams into the tournament and less auto qualifiers. Turn the "first four" into the "first eight" and make them all the bottom 16 conference champs.
So if you are the Big East do you try to get into the new group or stick it out with what is left of D1?
Would the Big East's goals align more closely with FBS or FCS/non football?
Some of the examples in the recommendation were increasing women's scholarships in some sports and offering some version of full cost of attendance.
(09-24-2013 02:23 AM)4x4hokies Wrote: [ -> ]So if you are the Big East do you try to get into the new group or stick it out with what is left of D1?
Would the Big East's goals align more closely with FBS or FCS/non football?
Some of the examples in the recommendation were increasing women's scholarships in some sports and offering some version of full cost of attendance.
The Big East while without FBS football definitely resembles the FBS crowd in its goals when it comes to basketball and non-revenue/semi-revenue sports. The idea that we'd arbitrarily place Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, St. John's, Butler, etc. on a lower playing field is nuts. On the flip side there are a number of Division 1 conferences that should be "arbitrarily" kicked down a level.
(09-24-2013 01:59 AM)4x4hokies Wrote: [ -> ]I wish they could find a way to allow more deserving teams into the tournament and less auto qualifiers. Turn the "first four" into the "first eight" and make them all the bottom 16 conference champs.
I disagree, They had to earn their way in, even if the years games were easier. If you are 8 place in a 14 team conf you shouldn't get treated better than the champ of another. No champ should have to be in the play in game. it should be the last 4 in.
I have never thought of the NCAA tournament as needing to have the 64 best teams. It still gets the 32 best teams. The round of 64 already does what you suggest. Gives the auto qualifiers an extra round to get into what should be just a 32 team tourney. Cause lets face it, if you aren't one of the top 32 teams, do you really deserve a chance at the national championship.? What's the lowest seed to win the. National title? #8. Bubble teams that complain they were bumped just dont get it. You couldn't even prove you were considered to be in the top 32. You deserve nothing. At least the auto qualifiers can say they won something to get in.
(09-24-2013 05:16 AM)brista21 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2013 02:23 AM)4x4hokies Wrote: [ -> ]So if you are the Big East do you try to get into the new group or stick it out with what is left of D1?
Would the Big East's goals align more closely with FBS or FCS/non football?
Some of the examples in the recommendation were increasing women's scholarships in some sports and offering some version of full cost of attendance.
The Big East while without FBS football definitely resembles the FBS crowd in its goals when it comes to basketball and non-revenue/semi-revenue sports. The idea that we'd arbitrarily place Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, St. John's, Butler, etc. on a lower playing field is nuts. On the flip side there are a number of Division 1 conferences that should be "arbitrarily" kicked down a level.
100% agree!
(09-24-2013 05:16 AM)brista21 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2013 02:23 AM)4x4hokies Wrote: [ -> ]So if you are the Big East do you try to get into the new group or stick it out with what is left of D1?
Would the Big East's goals align more closely with FBS or FCS/non football?
Some of the examples in the recommendation were increasing women's scholarships in some sports and offering some version of full cost of attendance.
The Big East while without FBS football definitely resembles the FBS crowd in its goals when it comes to basketball and non-revenue/semi-revenue sports. The idea that we'd arbitrarily place Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, St. John's, Butler, etc. on a lower playing field is nuts. On the flip side there are a number of Division 1 conferences that should be "arbitrarily" kicked down a level.
The current Big East does not have a whole lot in common with any major football conference. Their interests are closer to those of Dayton, St. Louis, Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and the other major basketball programs without FBS football. You could lump the Big East, A-10, and WCC together as tweener leagues because they not like the rest of Division 1 but their mission is no where close to major college football playing leagues.
(09-24-2013 08:02 AM)goodknightfl Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2013 01:59 AM)4x4hokies Wrote: [ -> ]I wish they could find a way to allow more deserving teams into the tournament and less auto qualifiers. Turn the "first four" into the "first eight" and make them all the bottom 16 conference champs.
I disagree, They had to earn their way in, even if the years games were easier. If you are 8 place in a 14 team conf you shouldn't get treated better than the champ of another. No champ should have to be in the play in game. it should be the last 4 in.
I don't think you are automatically deserving of a spot because you beat out 8 or 9 of the worst teams in basketball...even if you call that group of 8 or 9 teams your conference.
I'd guess it'd be the 10 FBS divisions, and the Big East and Atlantic 10.
ACC 15
Big East 10
A10 14
AAC 11
CUSA 14
Big 12 10
Big Ten 14
MAC 12
MWC 11
Pac 12 12
SEC 14
SBC 10
would be 147 schools. Probably when all is said and done about 150-155. Only other conference really could see would be the MVC to get up to about 160-165..
Hawaii would be the really interesting school in some ways- in MWC for football, but Big West for everything else. IF there's a huge advantage, would Big West kick them out?
(09-24-2013 08:49 AM)4x4hokies Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2013 08:02 AM)goodknightfl Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2013 01:59 AM)4x4hokies Wrote: [ -> ]I wish they could find a way to allow more deserving teams into the tournament and less auto qualifiers. Turn the "first four" into the "first eight" and make them all the bottom 16 conference champs.
I disagree, They had to earn their way in, even if the years games were easier. If you are 8 place in a 14 team conf you shouldn't get treated better than the champ of another. No champ should have to be in the play in game. it should be the last 4 in.
I don't think you are automatically deserving of a spot because you beat out 8 or 9 of the worst teams in basketball...even if you call that group of 8 or 9 teams your conference.
I think those schools though are what has made March Madness what it is today.
about the BB schools not making it......
heres my take on it,
-of the clear cut top 10 best bb programs, every single one of them is an FBS school.
-the last time a school won the NC who is not currently an FBS school was 1985 (the first year the toury was 64 teams)
obviously the mid majors cant compete with the FBS. and that split is only going to get bigger over timewith all the new money the FBS schools are getting. sure we have schools like creighton, marquette, butler & gtown. but they represent a very small minority of the 220 something d1 non-FBS schools.
i love the tourny and the Cinderella's make it great, and to be honest not including them taints any national title my school wins going forward.
however should florida gulf coast & louisville really be competing for the same NC? you are talking a $200k program vs a $20 million program. the ratio is more than 10x worse than comparing say alabama to boise state in football.
and one thing that does get overlooked is that these small time BB schools dont have the budgets to play multiple tourny games. its been pretty well documented the enormous lengths that FGCU had to go to in order to get the cash for their s16 run. while we may not think of much for an FBS getting a tourny game. the reality is that that a tourny bid for a small bb only school is like a bowl game for them, where they are expected to throw a celebration for their boosters & alumni and basically spend a lot. its the exact same problem we have in the bowl games with FBS schools.
the way i see it d1 schools will have to get cut, because theres no way that all 300 of them will be included. and considering all but a very few of those teams have a tourny bid to their name.....no matter how you slice it you cant cut d1 in half without hurting the tourny. because it will no longer be a tournament where every cinderella has a chance. because as we already know FGCU came from nowhere and was at the very bottom of the d1 barrel. and without FGCU, the tourny gets altered.
thats why i think it has to be an "all or none" type deal. if we are gonna damage the tourny, we might as well do it right, and for the correct reasons (protecting the big schools from the small schools). and that requires a 100% split
(09-24-2013 05:16 AM)brista21 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2013 02:23 AM)4x4hokies Wrote: [ -> ]So if you are the Big East do you try to get into the new group or stick it out with what is left of D1?
Would the Big East's goals align more closely with FBS or FCS/non football?
Some of the examples in the recommendation were increasing women's scholarships in some sports and offering some version of full cost of attendance.
The Big East while without FBS football definitely resembles the FBS crowd in its goals when it comes to basketball and non-revenue/semi-revenue sports. The idea that we'd arbitrarily place Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, St. John's, Butler, etc. on a lower playing field is nuts. On the flip side there are a number of Division 1 conferences that should be "arbitrarily" kicked down a level.
Which is not backed in any way by this document. The people crafting it are one from each FBS conference.
(09-24-2013 08:51 AM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2013 08:49 AM)4x4hokies Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2013 08:02 AM)goodknightfl Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2013 01:59 AM)4x4hokies Wrote: [ -> ]I wish they could find a way to allow more deserving teams into the tournament and less auto qualifiers. Turn the "first four" into the "first eight" and make them all the bottom 16 conference champs.
I disagree, They had to earn their way in, even if the years games were easier. If you are 8 place in a 14 team conf you shouldn't get treated better than the champ of another. No champ should have to be in the play in game. it should be the last 4 in.
I don't think you are automatically deserving of a spot because you beat out 8 or 9 of the worst teams in basketball...even if you call that group of 8 or 9 teams your conference.
I think those schools though are what has made March Madness what it is today.
What did they make it? They are always gone after the first day.
You get one FGCU every now and then coming from that group of the worst 10 leagues. They'd still have their shot. You'd just make their first round of games more evenly matched.
Well, from that proposal, it seems the FBS schools have no qualms about leaving the Big East or anyone else who does not play FBS football out of their governance structure, but still wants to maintain the other D1 championshps, including basketball. It's kind of a best-of-both-worlds proposal in that the structure allows for their own governance, but they still get to keep the rest of D1 as competition.
i think the big east might be regretting telling the AAC schools to stick it very badly now.
I think this proposal may cause a few conferences to drop to D2. It would likely force most of the D1 leftovers to adopt FBS rules in order to stay competitive. So the FBS schools will actually get to set policy for all of division 1 by proxy.
(09-24-2013 08:56 AM)4x4hokies Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2013 08:51 AM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2013 08:49 AM)4x4hokies Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2013 08:02 AM)goodknightfl Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2013 01:59 AM)4x4hokies Wrote: [ -> ]I wish they could find a way to allow more deserving teams into the tournament and less auto qualifiers. Turn the "first four" into the "first eight" and make them all the bottom 16 conference champs.
I disagree, They had to earn their way in, even if the years games were easier. If you are 8 place in a 14 team conf you shouldn't get treated better than the champ of another. No champ should have to be in the play in game. it should be the last 4 in.
I don't think you are automatically deserving of a spot because you beat out 8 or 9 of the worst teams in basketball...even if you call that group of 8 or 9 teams your conference.
I think those schools though are what has made March Madness what it is today.
What did they make it? They are always gone after the first day.
You get one FGCU every now and then coming from that group of the worst 10 leagues. They'd still have their shot. You'd just make their first round of games more evenly matched.
What I think is going to happen is you're going to see instead of the first 4 games being 2 with at larges and 2 with 16's, being 4 with 16's. That would take 2 of the 15's from last year and move them down to 16's. So FGCU may still have been a 15 last year. What that would do is make the 5/12 games and maybe even the 4/13 games even tougher. And even looking at it last year- Harvard would have become a 15 seed.
(09-24-2013 09:07 AM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2013 08:56 AM)4x4hokies Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2013 08:51 AM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2013 08:49 AM)4x4hokies Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2013 08:02 AM)goodknightfl Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree, They had to earn their way in, even if the years games were easier. If you are 8 place in a 14 team conf you shouldn't get treated better than the champ of another. No champ should have to be in the play in game. it should be the last 4 in.
I don't think you are automatically deserving of a spot because you beat out 8 or 9 of the worst teams in basketball...even if you call that group of 8 or 9 teams your conference.
I think those schools though are what has made March Madness what it is today.
What did they make it? They are always gone after the first day.
You get one FGCU every now and then coming from that group of the worst 10 leagues. They'd still have their shot. You'd just make their first round of games more evenly matched.
What I think is going to happen is you're going to see instead of the first 4 games being 2 with at larges and 2 with 16's, being 4 with 16's. That would take 2 of the 15's from last year and move them down to 16's. So FGCU may still have been a 15 last year. What that would do is make the 5/12 games and maybe even the 4/13 games even tougher. And even looking at it last year- Harvard would have become a 15 seed.
TV is what made it what it currently is. Nobody would watch all 16 seeds. TV needs those name programs in those game to get viewers.