08-21-2013, 01:58 PM
BAR 8.21: Appreciating Ichiro
08/21/13 at 10:33am by C. Trent Rosecrans
One of my favorite things in my job is when I start talking to one person and it becomes a conversation among many. That happened on Tuesday when I asked Jay Bruce about Ichiro Suzuki’s attempt at 4,000 career hits between Japan and the United States.
“It’s something to marvel at, it’s stuff you can’t really wrap your head around,” Bruce said. “I don’t even know how many hits I have in my career, but it’s not close to 1,000. That’s the point — you have to do something for so long and be so good at something for so long to reach a class like this and he’s about to do it.”
For the record, Bruce has 748 career hits in the big leagues.
The discussion moved to 4,000 hits and how Ichiro’s hit total compares. There have, of course, only been two players in baseball history to reach 4,000 hits — Pete Rose and Ty Cobb.
Ichiro has 2,721 hits in the majors and 1,278 in Japan. There is a difference between 4,000 hits n the majors and 4,000 hits combined between the majors and Japan, of course, but it’s still an amazing feat — and one certainly worth watching. Ichiro didn’t come to the United States until he was 27, debuting in Japan at 18 and becoming a regular at 20.
“It may have been by chance that he can’t be compared to the other two just because he wasn’t born in America,” Bruce said. “Had he been born in America, he could have been. I don’t think it discounts him — from an outsider looking in — but as someone who has an understanding of baseball and how truly hard that is…”
This was part of a discussion, so others started coming in. The question then went to whether Ichiro would play long enough to get 4,257 hits — he needs just 258 more hits.
Bruce brought up Sadaharu Oh and his 868 home runs. While not seen as the same as Barry Bonds or Hank Aaron — it’s still respected. Dusty Baker said he remembers following Oh’s path to 800 as a player in the 70s.
Ichiro’s mark is similar and dissimilar. There’s no doubt Ichiro could play at the highest level — he proved that, winning an MVP in his first season and then recording at least 200 hits in each of his first 10 seasons in the majors. I find it nearly impossible that he’ll be anything but a first-ballot Hall of Fame selection in the United States.
It’s not the same. Let me state that right off. But of the 4,000 -hit club, each had their own issues.
• Ty Cobb: None of his 4,191 hits (or 4,189) came against an African-American, or with an African-American on the field. Some of the best players of the day weren’t allowed to play in the major leagues. He didn’t have the luxury of air travel, but he also didn’t have to play all across the country.
• Pete Rose: The undisputed Hit King’s career spanned eras, from the early 60s to the 80s. Rose benefitted, as did many of his peers, from rule changes to help offense and expansion thinning pitching talent. Of course, he played before that, as well, and he was successful in both eras. He also retired before specialization took over — Bruce said Joe Morgan told him that when they’d go into Los Angeles, he knew he’d face just four different pitchers in a four-game series. Now, players can routinely face three different pitchers in a single game — the two relievers may come in throwing 100 mph.
• Ichiro Suzuki: The obvious one, he recorded nearly a third of those hits in Japan. While the competition isn’t quite up to snuff, there were good pitchers, and he also dealt with a shorter season — either 130 or 135 games during his career in Japan.
No, even if Ichiro gets to 4,257, he’s not the hit king, but he’s certainly royalty. (That would also give him 2,979 career hits in MLB — 21 short of the magical 3,000 mark.)
*****
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2013/08/21/bar082113/
08/21/13 at 10:33am by C. Trent Rosecrans
One of my favorite things in my job is when I start talking to one person and it becomes a conversation among many. That happened on Tuesday when I asked Jay Bruce about Ichiro Suzuki’s attempt at 4,000 career hits between Japan and the United States.
“It’s something to marvel at, it’s stuff you can’t really wrap your head around,” Bruce said. “I don’t even know how many hits I have in my career, but it’s not close to 1,000. That’s the point — you have to do something for so long and be so good at something for so long to reach a class like this and he’s about to do it.”
For the record, Bruce has 748 career hits in the big leagues.
The discussion moved to 4,000 hits and how Ichiro’s hit total compares. There have, of course, only been two players in baseball history to reach 4,000 hits — Pete Rose and Ty Cobb.
Ichiro has 2,721 hits in the majors and 1,278 in Japan. There is a difference between 4,000 hits n the majors and 4,000 hits combined between the majors and Japan, of course, but it’s still an amazing feat — and one certainly worth watching. Ichiro didn’t come to the United States until he was 27, debuting in Japan at 18 and becoming a regular at 20.
“It may have been by chance that he can’t be compared to the other two just because he wasn’t born in America,” Bruce said. “Had he been born in America, he could have been. I don’t think it discounts him — from an outsider looking in — but as someone who has an understanding of baseball and how truly hard that is…”
This was part of a discussion, so others started coming in. The question then went to whether Ichiro would play long enough to get 4,257 hits — he needs just 258 more hits.
Bruce brought up Sadaharu Oh and his 868 home runs. While not seen as the same as Barry Bonds or Hank Aaron — it’s still respected. Dusty Baker said he remembers following Oh’s path to 800 as a player in the 70s.
Ichiro’s mark is similar and dissimilar. There’s no doubt Ichiro could play at the highest level — he proved that, winning an MVP in his first season and then recording at least 200 hits in each of his first 10 seasons in the majors. I find it nearly impossible that he’ll be anything but a first-ballot Hall of Fame selection in the United States.
It’s not the same. Let me state that right off. But of the 4,000 -hit club, each had their own issues.
• Ty Cobb: None of his 4,191 hits (or 4,189) came against an African-American, or with an African-American on the field. Some of the best players of the day weren’t allowed to play in the major leagues. He didn’t have the luxury of air travel, but he also didn’t have to play all across the country.
• Pete Rose: The undisputed Hit King’s career spanned eras, from the early 60s to the 80s. Rose benefitted, as did many of his peers, from rule changes to help offense and expansion thinning pitching talent. Of course, he played before that, as well, and he was successful in both eras. He also retired before specialization took over — Bruce said Joe Morgan told him that when they’d go into Los Angeles, he knew he’d face just four different pitchers in a four-game series. Now, players can routinely face three different pitchers in a single game — the two relievers may come in throwing 100 mph.
• Ichiro Suzuki: The obvious one, he recorded nearly a third of those hits in Japan. While the competition isn’t quite up to snuff, there were good pitchers, and he also dealt with a shorter season — either 130 or 135 games during his career in Japan.
No, even if Ichiro gets to 4,257, he’s not the hit king, but he’s certainly royalty. (That would also give him 2,979 career hits in MLB — 21 short of the magical 3,000 mark.)
*****
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2013/08/21/bar082113/
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