CSNbbs

I'm never the one to say bad things about recruits that pick other schools and probably will never be that guy.

With that said, I'm not afraid to look at the bigger picture and say that HC Paul Chryst, Rudolf and company aren't getting the job done.

When Penn State was issued their sanctions, it was a prime opportunity to seize control of PA recruiting.

What has happened is Big 10 schools and other schools has stepped in and taken the players that may have ended up at Penn State.

Epic failure so far.

The program was certainly hit and left with an black eye due to the coaching turmoil the past several years. But it's up to Chryst to sell the program.

Their laid back approach to recruiting is off. They need to be far more aggressive than they currently are.

Losing a kid like Chase Winovich to Michigan hurts. He's from a pipeline school with a former Pitt player as its head coach in Bill Cherpek.

I'm not saying all is lost. There is still 7 months left in the recruiting season. And not every kid is going to pick Pitt. There just needs to be a new approach.

It's also because as you and I have discussed Joey... this defensive staff is repugnant!

If a 3* linebacker Michigan is going to cripple the program we should drop down and join the PSAC. If we win this year they will come.

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Fair point SP. I was surprised to hear that he was only a 3*. From what I've heard, kid is an absolute stud.

He is 3* on rivals not sure about Scout. He is a player to be sure. If Michigan and OSU wanted him, he can play.

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(06-05-2013 09:56 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote: [ -> ]If we win this year they will come.

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Agreed. If that's Chryst's approach I'm ok with it but like you said, he needs to win and win this year - a 6-6 year probably won't cut it for a lot of recruits.

(06-09-2013 01:41 PM)IberianPanther Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-05-2013 09:56 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote: [ -> ]If we win this year they will come.

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Agreed. If that's Chryst's approach I'm ok with it but like you said, he needs to win and win this year - a 6-6 year probably won't cut it for a lot of recruits.

I think a 6-6 record with this year's schedule will be a sign of vast improvement? It would be like going 9-3 with last year's schedule.

I'm going to add on to the OP a little.

We must find an inroads to the Gulf Coast States like Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana. If it takes us having to play H/H's with SMiss, and UAB in the future: then so be it. The days of the core of your average class coming from WPIAL or even the PIAA are pretty much over.

Ideal Class:

PA 4-5
Florida 3-4
North Carolina 3-4
Mississippi 2-3
Louisiana 2-3
Alabama 2-3
Ohio 2-3
Virginia 2-3
New Jersey 2-3
Maryland 1-2

If we can get kids from Texas or California, that would be even sweeter.

(06-10-2013 11:49 AM)7fielder Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-09-2013 01:41 PM)IberianPanther Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-05-2013 09:56 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote: [ -> ]If we win this year they will come.

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Agreed. If that's Chryst's approach I'm ok with it but like you said, he needs to win and win this year - a 6-6 year probably won't cut it for a lot of recruits.

I think a 6-6 record with this year's schedule will be a sign of vast improvement? It would be like going 9-3 with last year's schedule.

I don't really disgree with your assessment 7 but with all of the turmoil the program has had, I think the program needs to do better than that to have a more successful recruiting year.

Of course I do realize we won't know the actual results of said recruiting for 2-3 years but my impression is that there appears to be no buzz locally for the program.

Maybe SPs contract extension will get everyone excited about Pitt? *scarcasm*

(06-10-2013 04:06 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote: [ -> ]I'm going to add on to the OP a little.

We must find an inroads to the Gulf Coast States like Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana. If it takes us having to play H/H's with SMiss, and UAB in the future: then so be it. The days of the core of your average class coming from WPIAL or even the PIAA are pretty much over.

Ideal Class:

PA 4-5
Florida 3-4
North Carolina 3-4
Mississippi 2-3
Louisiana 2-3
Alabama 2-3
Ohio 2-3
Virginia 2-3
New Jersey 2-3
Maryland 1-2

If we can get kids from Texas or California, that would be even sweeter.

Assuming you had the recruiting budget for this, how do you convence the recruits form the deep south, Texas, and Cali to come up North and East? I think the only ones who will will be of the UAB, Memphis type. I think it's better to focus on the ACC and Big 10 states where Pitt has more of a 'name' compared to almost none at all in those other (non-ACC) deep south states.

Of course, by now, Pitt should be known locally in B'ham because of the BBVA bowl. Should Pitt Schedule a neutral site OOC there?

(06-10-2013 04:06 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote: [ -> ]I'm going to add on to the OP a little.

We must find an inroads to the Gulf Coast States like Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana. If it takes us having to play H/H's with SMiss, and UAB in the future: then so be it. The days of the core of your average class coming from WPIAL or even the PIAA are pretty much over.

Ideal Class:

PA 4-5
Florida 3-4
North Carolina 3-4
Mississippi 2-3
Louisiana 2-3
Alabama 2-3
Ohio 2-3
Virginia 2-3
New Jersey 2-3
Maryland 1-2

If we can get kids from Texas or California, that would be even sweeter.

Why only 4 to 5 from PA and only 2 to 3 from OH? I'd be VERY disappointed if Va Tech only got 5 in-state players and 3 from the state next door (NC or MD in our case).

Plus, I'd think it might be easier to recruit against the Big Ten than the SEC, right?

(06-11-2013 01:24 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-10-2013 04:06 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote: [ -> ]I'm going to add on to the OP a little.

We must find an inroads to the Gulf Coast States like Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana. If it takes us having to play H/H's with SMiss, and UAB in the future: then so be it. The days of the core of your average class coming from WPIAL or even the PIAA are pretty much over.

Ideal Class:

PA 4-5
Florida 3-4
North Carolina 3-4
Mississippi 2-3
Louisiana 2-3
Alabama 2-3
Ohio 2-3
Virginia 2-3
New Jersey 2-3
Maryland 1-2

If we can get kids from Texas or California, that would be even sweeter.

Why only 4 to 5 from PA and only 2 to 3 from OH? I'd be VERY disappointed if Va Tech only got 5 in-state players and 3 from the state next door (NC or MD in our case).

Plus, I'd think it might be easier to recruit against the Big Ten than the SEC, right?

I would think that if Pitt were recruiting kids down in Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama that it wouldn't be the players that are going to SEC schools. It would be kids from that area that are a notch below top SEC talent. Kids that are being recruited by Kentucky and Vanderbilt. Kids from that area that are looking at ACC schools like GaTech and Wake and North Carolina. Maybe even some of the top shelf recruits that Southern Miss is looking at?

Kids of that calibar down south in my opinion are better that the four star Western PA players.

HokieMark,

If Pitt was located in say Richmond, I'd be pissed if Pitt only got 4 or 5 VA kids a year as well. Fact of the matter is that local recruiting doesn't get the job done anymore. One of the few things Graham did was well that he recognized the need to recruit the south more than the program did in the past.

(06-14-2013 12:56 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote: [ -> ]HokieMark,

If Pitt was located in say Richmond, I'd be pissed if Pitt only got 4 or 5 VA kids a year as well. Fact of the matter is that local recruiting doesn't get the job done anymore. One of the few things Graham did was well that he recognized the need to recruit the south more than the program did in the past.

I get what you're saying to a degree, but here's what I'm not understanding:
PA produced at least 54 scholarship-worthy football players on National Signing Day, 2014 (according to Rivals) - LINK to my analysis. 10 of them were 4 & 5 star players. But Only 2 of those signed with Pitt, and 1 signed with PSU; the other 7 went out of state - 3 to freakin' SEC schools! If the SEC can come in and cherry pick PA talent, and you're going to try to make that up by signing 2 and 3 star players from Mississippi, you're going to lose that deal!


Link to my analysis of player migration.

(06-14-2013 12:56 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote: [ -> ]HokieMark,

If Pitt was located in say Richmond, I'd be pissed if Pitt only got 4 or 5 VA kids a year as well. Fact of the matter is that local recruiting doesn't get the job done anymore. One of the few things Graham did was well that he recognized the need to recruit the south more than the program did in the past.

Why do you think Graham did that? Do you think it was because he could find more talent there? IMO, there are other reasons for him searching the deep south than whether there is more talent there.

IMO, Graham was a lazy jerk who didn't want to work the local high schools so he took the quick solution of recruiting the Deep South. Quick, but not sustainable. If you want to dominate your region, and more importantly, beat Penn State in recruiting and on the field, you need the best PA talent. Not only does that keep them away from the Nitt-Wits, but it also gives you players who will be passionate about the game (not a bunch of mercenaries from Mississippi who care more about getting back to the BBVA Compass Bowl than beating local teams like Youngstown St. - hey, I'm just saying!)

(06-14-2013 10:02 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]IMO, Graham was a lazy jerk who didn't want to work the local high schools so he took the quick solution of recruiting the Deep South. Quick, but not sustainable.

He definitely tried to work the local HS. Although, he demeanor probably rubbed a lot of locals the wrong way (ie he didn't seem genuine). I think it was the good Dr. who mentioned this but I could be wrong.

In addition, I think at least three members of Graham's staff that worked with RichRod at UMich and WVu so they knew the 'local' área pretty well.

Certainly, Graham worked the deep south because needed to do it when he first arrived becasue it was in Jan when he replaced Wanny (less than a month before signing day, IIRC). However, he was still doing it after that because that's where he and a lot of his staff had connections because of their time at Tulsa, Rice, and in CUSA. They already knew Graham and company there. Graham is originally from Texas but pretty much spent his whole life around Tx/Okla except for a couple of years at WVu (of course, he has family all over the US ).

Some members of Chryst's staff did the same - ie they worked some of the áreas where they had recruited before before coming to Pitt. The DL line coach was from UCLA and sent out offers to kids from Califórnia and Hawaii. There were several complaints or at least questions/concerns about Chryst's staff but it' was certainly strange to many that he didn't have anyone (IIRC - expect the former DC Dave Huxtable - now at NCSt) who had previous experience in any 'ACC' territory (DC, Virginia, and south to Florida). So coaches on Chryst's staff have to now build new relationships in new territories, which takes time.

Chryst isn't an agressive recruiter. That's fine but he needs results on the field to show what he can do. Anyway, let's see how it goes.

JMO

Just read this from Chris Peak's Twitter (Pitt's rivals.com writer):

Of the 37 recruits #Pitt signed in the 2011 and 2012 classes, 15 have left. That's 40.5% of the last 2 classes

10 of the 21 recruits in the 2011 class have left. 5 of the 16 in the 2012 class. This is why #Pitt's roster has some holes.

(06-15-2013 03:20 AM)IberianPanther Wrote: [ -> ]Just read this from Chris Peak's Twitter (Pitt's rivals.com writer):

Of the 37 recruits #Pitt signed in the 2011 and 2012 classes, 15 have left. That's 40.5% of the last 2 classes

10 of the 21 recruits in the 2011 class have left. 5 of the 16 in the 2012 class. This is why #Pitt's roster has some holes.

What do you think this means? I wouldn't mind if my new coach ran off players recruited by the previous coach, but I would have a problem with a coach who runs off his own recruits, I think...

The 2011 was Graham's (remembre Wanny was fired and Haywood was hired and fired). Many of the 2012 class were originally recruited by Graham and staff before he left and the schollies were honored by Chryst but a few of them probably didn't fit. Remember, Graham runs a spread while Chryst runs a Power Run O. Chryst is certainly in a tough situation.