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Has the SunBelt ever used the 2 pool round robin format. The ACC uses this set up: 2 4-team pools. Play each of 3 other pool members then winners of each pool play a 1 game championship game.

The advantages of this are that each team is guaranteed 3 games and for teams on the edge of at-large consideration it is a chance for another win or two against good competition.
Yes. That format was used the last two years. Some coaches liked it. Others did not. I suspect it will remain a double elimination format for the next few years.
Is this year's SB tourney 2 pools of 4 teams or 1 big 8 team DE tourney?

Do the pool winners play a 1 game championship or is there a possibility of 2 championship games?
(05-23-2013 08:24 PM)GaSoEagle Wrote: [ -> ]Is this year's SB tourney 2 pools of 4 teams or 1 big 8 team DE tourney?

Do the pool winners play a 1 game championship or is there a possibility of 2 championship games?

This year it is double elimination.
First games
1 vs 8
2 vs 7
3 vs 6
4 vs 5

Day 2 -
losers go into the losers bracket and winners get a day off. Losers of these games are out and go home (UALR & WKU)
Day 3 -
winners from day 1 play (first 2 games)
winners from losers bracket play losers from 1st 2 games today (Friday) - 2 games. In this case, FIU and stAte. If stAte or FIU lose, they go home. If they win they live to play another game.


http://www.sunbeltsports.org/CHAMPIONSHI...eball.aspx
This is basically the set-up the SoCon is using now.

I can speak for our baseball program and they are looking forward to joining the SunBelt. It will be nice to be in a league that most years is going to get 3-4 bids and top 6 or so in RPI.
This is what the SLC used. I happen to like it.
Round Robin; basically if you lose 1 game you chances are gone.

2 yrs ago we lost out first game and ended up having to buckle down and the guys had to play 5 games but we won the tourney from the losers bracket. Had to speculate who was going to pitch that last game. Our closer did and pitched a 9 inning shut-out (hadn't started a game since HS). Found that not only extremely tense but exciting. (Thats closer is now in the ChiSox farm system)
(05-23-2013 09:54 PM)CatMom Wrote: [ -> ]This is what the SLC used. I happen to like it.
Round Robin; basically if you lose 1 game you chances are gone.

2 yrs ago we lost out first game and ended up having to buckle down and the guys had to play 5 games but we won the tourney from the losers bracket. Had to speculate who was going to pitch that last game. Our closer did and pitched a 9 inning shut-out (hadn't started a game since HS). Found that not only extremely tense but exciting. (Thats closer is now in the ChiSox farm system)

I don't like it at all, its bad for teams that have done well during the regular season and hurts your top teams RPI's coming out of the conference tournament for NCAA seeding. Its not good for the conference either.
We went to round robin a couple years ago after FIU came out of the losers bracket to win the tourney, and then got obliterated in regionals the next week with a half dead pitching staff. It changed back quickly, especially after a 3 way tie decided one of the pools last year.
If any of the top 3 waste their entire pitching staff trying to win a conference tourney this year, they get what they deserve. Top 3 are in regardless what happens, they should be pitching the big guys once each and preparing for regionals.

Maybe USA should push for a win and a host shot.
I understand your point but in the round robin system the most games a team will play is 4.
(05-23-2013 10:40 PM)GaSoEagle Wrote: [ -> ]I understand your point but in the round robin system the most games a team will be 4. In the 8 team DH system a team could possibly play 5 or even 6.

But at the same time, there is an NCAA berth on the line for 4 of the 8 teams this weekend. We want that chance to go crazy and sneak a bid. Round robin offers little chance at that.

ASU's season would already be essentially over had we played round robin.
For a team who really has to win the tourney to go to regionals you make a good point. For teams who are close to a regional team 3 guaranteed games would give them maybe enough wins to get to a regional.
In any format you have to play at least 4 games so the idea of any team wasting its pitching staff is a weak argument. In double elimination you can win the whole thing with only playing 4 games if the other team has a loss already. You have 4 starters you use them. No team gets to the Regionals without using their pitching staff. They still get a week's rest using the same rotation, just like all the other teams. If you have a 5th game you pull a "rabbit out of the hat". If you're worthy you're going to win.

There's also the argument that 3-4 SBC teams are already in, anyway. That's a different situation than we've been accustomed to. The SLC rarely had that so you had to win the tourney. Rare exception and something we're not used to. Recently got in when we didn't win it but that was because they had no other justification to leave us out due to record and RPI.

The only way to resolve it is to not have a tournament. Let RPI get other teams in and the regular season champion get the autobid. The pitchers would get an extra week's rest but, that could be a good or bad thing.
(05-23-2013 10:50 PM)GaSoEagle Wrote: [ -> ]For a team who really has to win the tourney to go to regionals you make a good point. For teams who are close to a regional team 3 guaranteed games would give them maybe enough wins to get to a regional.

For teams that are pretty much guaranteed a regional, playing teams with poor RPI's just damages their NCAA resumes and in the long run hurts the conferences opportunities for a higher seed.
(05-23-2013 08:21 PM)GaSoEagle Wrote: [ -> ]Has the SunBelt ever used the 2 pool round robin format. The ACC uses this set up: 2 4-team pools. Play each of 3 other pool members then winners of each pool play a 1 game championship game.

The advantages of this are that each team is guaranteed 3 games and for teams on the edge of at-large consideration it is a chance for another win or two against good competition.


This is NOT a good format for the SBC. It might work for teams in the ACC, but is bad for the SBC. The best way for the SBC to run a baseball, or softball, or basketball tournament is to protect the higher seeded teams.
I see the merits of both. Having been in the SLC for so long, I like double elimination. The problem is that a team that gets hot or lucky isn't necessarily the best team. There have been instances where there 1st and 2nd seed could have both been in, but a lower seed won and there were no at-large's. Sam Houston got one last year, but they had to win a game to get it. They almost blew that.

As for Pool play, it really rewards the higher seed teams. UTA can lose today, but as long as they beat Texas State, they are in the championship game Sunday. That said, there is very little drama added, which are inherently present in the DE format. Today's game doesn't matter for UTA except for trying to increase seeding in the NCAA's should we win it all. Tomorrow's does.

The pitching staff arguement doesn't fly with me. A week's rest should be plenty to recharge your pitchers. In fact, I think sometimes the rest can hurt. Our ace last year looked rusty in the NCAA's. His pitches looked like they lacked the zip they had. And he pitched the first and last game of the conference tourney, picking up two wins. Maybe it was because he was overworked in the tourney, but I don't think so.
Maybe just because I'm used to it but I like the double elimination format.
(05-23-2013 10:36 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-23-2013 09:54 PM)CatMom Wrote: [ -> ]This is what the SLC used. I happen to like it.
Round Robin; basically if you lose 1 game you chances are gone.

2 yrs ago we lost out first game and ended up having to buckle down and the guys had to play 5 games but we won the tourney from the losers bracket. Had to speculate who was going to pitch that last game. Our closer did and pitched a 9 inning shut-out (hadn't started a game since HS). Found that not only extremely tense but exciting. (Thats closer is now in the ChiSox farm system)

I don't like it at all, its bad for teams that have done well during the regular season and hurts your top teams RPI's coming out of the conference tournament for NCAA seeding. Its not good for the conference either.

This couldn't be wrong. It helps teams who did well in the regular season, tiebreakers go to the higher seed. It helps team who will make regionals because their pitching will not be worn out in a ridiculous double-elimination format.
(05-23-2013 11:36 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-23-2013 10:50 PM)GaSoEagle Wrote: [ -> ]For a team who really has to win the tourney to go to regionals you make a good point. For teams who are close to a regional team 3 guaranteed games would give them maybe enough wins to get to a regional.

For teams that are pretty much guaranteed a regional, playing teams with poor RPI's just damages their NCAA resumes and in the long run hurts the conferences opportunities for a higher seed.

Troy played Arkansas State once already and maybe twice ... ULL played FIU once and maybe twice. You're off on this one.

In fact, in round robin the No. 1 seed is guaranteed games against the No. 4, No. 5 and No. 8 plus the winner of the other pool. Now, with double elimination, the No. 1 could play No. 8 twice and No. 4 and skip a game against No. 5 whose RPI is higher than No. 8. So again, NO!
My thinking is that a round robin format would give teams more opportunity to play other good teams that would in fact possibly help their RPI
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