CSNbbs

A blurb in the Chronicle yesterday mentioned three basketball transfers: one away from UT (their third of the year plus one underclassman going pro), one away from Baylor (their second of the year), one away from UH.

LJ Rose for Baylor (son of UH ex Lyndon), JJ Thompson of UH (starting PG there for most of the year) and Julien Lewis of Texas. UH's loss will probably hurt the least. Texas is getting gutted this year (losing their top three scorers and four players altogether).

College basketball in general is a mess. It's really a shame for a sport that used to be a lot of fun to follow.

Why are so many players transferring? Do universities recruit players who are already under scholarship at other institutions? Do kids coming out of high school have unrealistic expectations that they think will be met at another institution? Are players controlled or influenced by outside advisers who move them from one institution to another, perhaps in exchange for cash? Or is it all of the above?

It seems to me that there is some sort of scandal lurking just outside the public view that is waiting to be reported.

I'd vote for all of the above with#3 and #2 being the biggest influence.

Probably a benefit for UT considering how bad they were...just start completely over instead of playing the same players again this year.

(05-16-2013 09:30 AM)Benchwarmer Owl Wrote: [ -> ]Do universities recruit players who are already under scholarship at other institutions? Do kids coming out of high school have unrealistic expectations that they think will be met at another institution? Are players controlled or influenced by outside advisers who move them from one institution to another, perhaps in exchange for cash? Or is it all of the above?

There are about 200 schools that want to be the next Gonzaga or Butler. The way things are going, there won't be a next Gonzaga or Butler.

I wonder if we'll start to see more redshirting. It's much less common in MBB than football. For a player who already redshirted, transferring means losing a year of eligibility. For a player who hasn't redshirted, there is basically no formal incentive to stay, in the face of all the above.

Does this in any way or to any degree mitigate our disaster? I know at the time it was happening, I felt as if this was a singular happening, that nobody else had mass transfers, but there are others now, and it seems to be the new face of college basketball.

I'm not sure whether this mitigates our experience last year, but it is notable that Marshall's top scorer from last year completed his eligibility. I believe the four other starters are transferring. Marshall is losing approximately 95% of its scoring last year.

Just to note, we are a laughing stock in certain quarters out here in Cali for keeping Braun employed.

(05-16-2013 11:40 AM)Wiessman Wrote: [ -> ]Just to note, we are a laughing stock in certain quarters out here in Cali for keeping Braun employed.

What is the take on Montgomery? I am surprised he hasn't had the success he had at Stanford yet.

Montgomery is not well thought of either. His success at Stanford has been attributed to solid recruiting (which, in all honesty, anyone should be able to accomplish at Stanford).

The next time we hire a coach from California, we might want to consider getting someone who is trending up and has experience in a similar situation. Someone like, oh, I don't know... Cal Poly's Joe Callero. He has overseen the team's rise in Division 1 while playing in a home gym that seats around 3000. Cal Poly also has higher academic standards for its basketball players than Berkeley does (pretty much an established fact), and the Mustangs won at Pac-12 champion UCLA last season for the first time ever.

Callero is probably not going to get a sniff of the Rice job, but I'm just outlining a few criteria that I think we should be looking for in our next coach. Y'know, things a right-minded and ambitious athletic department at an elite private school would look for.

(05-16-2013 11:40 AM)Wiessman Wrote: [ -> ]Just to note, we are a laughing stock in certain quarters out here in Cali for keeping Braun employed.

I dont think the laughingstock designation is limited to certain quarters of California

(05-16-2013 11:55 AM)Wiessman Wrote: [ -> ]The next time we hire a coach from California ...

That may be part of our problem right there. We either need someone connected to the local (start in Houston and move out) high school scene or enough sense to hire a staff that is.

A roster with at least some local talent would be a welcomed change.

(05-16-2013 02:30 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-16-2013 11:55 AM)Wiessman Wrote: [ -> ]The next time we hire a coach from California ...

That may be part of our problem right there. We either need someone connected to the local (start in Houston and move out) high school scene or enough sense to hire a staff that is.

A roster with at least some local talent would be a welcomed change.

And also a miracle under the leadership of this staff

At least in theory, more local talent should be less inclined to go elsewhere, which helps with the transfer problem. I don't have any cites to specific studies of how that works in practice, but my eyeball perception is that it holds generally true.

Around Berkeley and the Bay Area, Ben Braun is still well-regarded. Braun established a winning program at Cal, something missing through the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s. His predecessor Todd Bozeman had some success with Jason Kidd and company, but he also cheated and tarred the program with scandal. Braun cleaned things up and established a solid record. Braun was fired because he couldn't do more as the program attracted better talent. Montgomery's first two teams at Cal relied heavily on upperclassmen recruited and mentored by Braun. Montgomery's performance at Cal has been quite similar to Braun's, and Montgomery has also struggled to lead deep runs into the Tournament. Several of his highly-ranked Stanford teams flamed out early in the Tournament as well. Montgomery is still well-regarded, because he still wins more games than he loses.

(05-16-2013 11:55 AM)Wiessman Wrote: [ -> ]Montgomery is not well thought of either. His success at Stanford has been attributed to solid recruiting (which, in all honesty, anyone should be able to accomplish at Stanford).

Stanford's basketball program was stagnant for decades until Montgomery got it back on its feet. Stanford alums still revere Montgomery very highly.

(05-16-2013 11:55 AM)Wiessman Wrote: [ -> ]The next time we hire a coach from California, we might want to consider getting someone who is trending up and has experience in a similar situation. Someone like, oh, I don't know... Cal Poly's Joe Callero. He has overseen the team's rise in Division 1 while playing in a home gym that seats around 3000. Cal Poly also has higher academic standards for its basketball players than Berkeley does (pretty much an established fact), and the Mustangs won at Pac-12 champion UCLA last season for the first time ever.

Callero is probably not going to get a sniff of the Rice job, but I'm just outlining a few criteria that I think we should be looking for in our next coach. Y'know, things a right-minded and ambitious athletic department at an elite private school would look for.

Joe Callero better than Ben Braun??? *choke* *choke* Who is Joe Callero? Few have heard of this obscure coach from an obscure Big West athletics program. Callero assembled a 117-105 record at Division II Seattle University, and he has been rather middling as the Cal Poly coach with three years cumulating to 45-39. Compare this to what Braun achieved at Eastern Michigan. Even this year, Rice did better than Cal Poly against a common opponent (TCU).

It is interesting to note that Cal Poly's star player this year was Chris Eversley, first recruited to Rice by Ben Braun. He wanted more playing time and less competition, and he could find it at Cal Poly.

Tulane had several transfers away, including their top player. They were this offseason's Rice.

(05-16-2013 05:49 PM)Bay Area Owl Wrote: [ -> ]Around Berkeley and the Bay Area, Ben Braun is still well-regarded. Braun established a winning program at Cal, something missing through the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s. His predecessor Todd Bozeman had some success with Jason Kidd and company, but he also cheated and tarred the program with scandal. Braun cleaned things up and established a solid record. Braun was fired because he couldn't do more as the program attracted better talent. Montgomery's first two teams at Cal relied heavily on upperclassmen recruited and mentored by Braun. Montgomery's performance at Cal has been quite similar to Braun's, and Montgomery has also struggled to lead deep runs into the Tournament. Several of his highly-ranked Stanford teams flamed out early in the Tournament as well. Montgomery is still well-regarded, because he still wins more games than he loses.

(05-16-2013 11:55 AM)Wiessman Wrote: [ -> ]Montgomery is not well thought of either. His success at Stanford has been attributed to solid recruiting (which, in all honesty, anyone should be able to accomplish at Stanford).

Stanford's basketball program was stagnant for decades until Montgomery got it back on its feet. Stanford alums still revere Montgomery very highly.

(05-16-2013 11:55 AM)Wiessman Wrote: [ -> ]The next time we hire a coach from California, we might want to consider getting someone who is trending up and has experience in a similar situation. Someone like, oh, I don't know... Cal Poly's Joe Callero. He has overseen the team's rise in Division 1 while playing in a home gym that seats around 3000. Cal Poly also has higher academic standards for its basketball players than Berkeley does (pretty much an established fact), and the Mustangs won at Pac-12 champion UCLA last season for the first time ever.

Callero is probably not going to get a sniff of the Rice job, but I'm just outlining a few criteria that I think we should be looking for in our next coach. Y'know, things a right-minded and ambitious athletic department at an elite private school would look for.

Joe Callero better than Ben Braun??? *choke* *choke* Who is Joe Callero? Few have heard of this obscure coach from an obscure Big West athletics program. Callero assembled a 117-105 record at Division II Seattle University, and he has been rather middling as the Cal Poly coach with three years cumulating to 45-39. Compare this to what Braun achieved at Eastern Michigan. Even this year, Rice did better than Cal Poly against a common opponent (TCU).

It is interesting to note that Cal Poly's star player this year was Chris Eversley, first recruited to Rice by Ben Braun. He wanted more playing time and less competition, and he could find it at Cal Poly.

Umm... First off, I'm not saying that Joe Callero is a great coach. But he is an improvement over Ben Braun; by the end of the season, Poly would have steamrolled Rice. Still, I'm just making the greater point that Rice needs to look for different things when searching for a coach. Braun was a silly hire, and I am 100% certain that even Callero could do better at Rice.

And that's just it: Who is Joe Callero? At the very least, he is a better coach than Ben Braun. Poly has only been D1 for 20 years.

As for Montgomery, all you have to do at Stanford is throw some money at the problem and get a "face" for a coach. There's a reason Montgomery has been painfully mediocre everywhere else.

And Braun cleaned up things at Cal? LOL. His players were an academic joke, and this was proven a good while back.

(05-16-2013 10:47 AM)Gravy Owl Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-16-2013 09:30 AM)Benchwarmer Owl Wrote: [ -> ]Do universities recruit players who are already under scholarship at other institutions? Do kids coming out of high school have unrealistic expectations that they think will be met at another institution? Are players controlled or influenced by outside advisers who move them from one institution to another, perhaps in exchange for cash? Or is it all of the above?

There are about 200 schools that want to be the next Gonzaga or Butler. The way things are going, there won't be a next Gonzaga or Butler.

I wonder if we'll start to see more redshirting. It's much less common in MBB than football. For a player who already redshirted, transferring means losing a year of eligibility. For a player who hasn't redshirted, there is basically no formal incentive to stay, in the face of all the above.

I don't see redshirting happening in basketball. Prep schools already provide the benefits of redshirting if that's what a player wants. But when you offer a kid knowing that he may be redshirted but another school won't redshirt him, you lose nearly all leverage. The schools really don't hold much power in this environment. And by schools, I mean specifically, the ones that expect the kids to go to class and graduate, with the understanding that they expect the kids to be there all four years.

(05-16-2013 09:30 AM)Benchwarmer Owl Wrote: [ -> ]Why are so many players transferring? Do universities recruit players who are already under scholarship at other institutions? Do kids coming out of high school have unrealistic expectations that they think will be met at another institution? Are players controlled or influenced by outside advisers who move them from one institution to another, perhaps in exchange for cash? Or is it all of the above?

It seems to me that there is some sort of scandal lurking just outside the public view that is waiting to be reported.

Are the rules still that you have to go one year in college before going pro? Perhaps this is the result of that - top schools getting guys for just one year and end up lacking experienced depth. So they replace their one-and-dones with experienced guys from lower-ranked programs? I always thought that programs line ours would benefit over the long haul, with lesser talent but greater experience and cohesion. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if the top dogs have figured a way to turn that back in their favor, using the likes of us as their JV.

To Benchwarmers point, I suspect there is rampant illicit or unethical recruiting, by hook or by crook. Either it is blatant and direct, or they have other kids or Morcoses do the dirty work.