So I was curious how the basketball history of each school would rank in the new SBC, especially since WKU and their steep history is leaving us. I got bored and came up with this. Agree? Disagree?
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Overall Basketball Tradition Rankings
Based on NCAA appearances and total post-season appearances.
1.South Alabama
2. Louisiana-Monroe
3. James Madison
4. Louisiana
5. Arkansas-Little Rock
6. Georgia Southern
7. Georgia State
8. Appalachian State
9. Troy
10. Texas-Arlington
11. Arkansas State
12. Texas State
(04-02-2013 10:01 PM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote: [ -> ]So I was curious how the basketball history of each school would rank in the new SBC, especially since WKU and their steep history is leaving us. I got bored and came up with this. Agree? Disagree?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Overall Basketball Tradition Rankings
Based on NCAA appearances and total post-season appearances.
1.South Alabama
2. Louisiana-Monroe
3. James Madison
4. Louisiana
5. Arkansas-Little Rock
6. Georgia Southern
7. Georgia State
8. Appalachian State
9. Troy
10. Texas-Arlington
11. Arkansas State
12. Texas State
Not that it makes a shitload of difference - but stAte was in 4 NITs in 5 years.
ESPN did an all-time ranking and if you take the members of the Sun Belt out it would give us this order:
1. South Alabama (#82 overall)
2. Louisiana-Monroe (#96 overall)
3. Arkansas-Little Rock (#107 overall)
T4. Louisiana-Lafayette (#118 overall)
T4. Georgia Southern (#118 overall)
6. James Madison (#141 overall)
7. Troy (#161 overall)
8. Arkansas State (#168 overall)
9. Appalachian State (#172 overall)
10. Georgia State (#195 overall)
11. Texas State (#241 overall)
12. Texas-Arlington (#260 overall)
I would list ULL and USA as 1a and 1b and everyone else would be way down the list
ULL has 7 NCAA bids since 1980 and during the 70s they had a good program (don't have those records on this pc but when I get home I will look at them) but that's marred by NCAA sanctions basically the death penalty.
Had UofL beat if not for the refs and should have beaten Tenn.
2004-2005
#13 Louisiana 62, #4 Louisville 68
2003-2004
#14 Louisiana 52, #3 NC State 61
1999-2000
#13 Louisiana 58, #4 Tennessee 63
1993-1994
#11 Louisiana 59, #6 Marquette 81
1991-1992
#13 Louisiana 73, #12 New Mexico State 81
#13 Louisiana 87, #4 Oklahoma 83
1982-1983
#9 Rutgers 60, #8 Louisiana 53
1981-1982
#9 Tennessee 61, #8 Louisiana 57
South has had some crap draws in the tourney. On at least 2 occasions, we played the eventual national champion in the first round (Arizona and Florda, want to say there's a third but I can't think of it). In '89 we beat Alabama in the first round, and then lost a close contest to Michigan in the next round, another eventual champion of that tourney. In our at large year of '08, we faced a vastly under seeded Butler team in the first round and got torched.
(04-02-2013 11:14 PM)BLEEDITRED Wrote: [ -> ]South has had some crap draws in the tourney. On at least 2 occasions, we played the eventual national champion in the first round (Arizona and Florda, want to say there's a third but I can't think of it). In '89 we beat Alabama in the first round, and then lost a close contest to Michigan in the next round, another eventual champion of that tourney. In our at large year of '08, we faced a vastly under seeded Butler team in the first round and got torched.
2007-2008
#10 South Alabama 61, #7 Butler 81
2005-2006
#14 South Alabama 50, #3 Florida 76
1997-1998
#12 South Alabama 51, #5 Illinois 64
1996-1997
#13 South Alabama 57, #4 Arizona 65
1990-1991
#13 South Alabama 72, #4 Utah 82
1988-1989
#11 South Alabama 82, #3 Michigan 91
#11 South Alabama 86, #6 Alabama 84
UALR deserves that spot and maybe higher. Beat Notre Dame and lost to NC State in double OT in the next round. Make a free throw or two at the end and we win that game too. Then made the semis of the NIT.
i'm just shocked that big lots has 7 appearances.
when and who the hell-0 was on those teams. did they have a different name back then?
Here you go.............
Mike Vining Set for Induction into Louisiana Sports Hall of Fame
Legendary former ULM men’s basketball head coach Mike Vining will join the Louisiana Sports Hall of Fame on Saturday (June 26) when he is inducted as part of the eight-member Class of 2010.
One of only four men to win 400 or more basketball games at a Louisiana college or university; Vining led ULM to seven NCAA Tournament appearances and is the all-time wins leader in the Southland Conference and at ULM. He coached ULM to seven Southland titles, most of any coach in the history of the conference, and led his first team to an Atlantic Sun (former Trans America Conference) Tournament title in 1982 and his first NCAA Tournament appearance.
Vining was named the Southland Conference Coach of the Year on four occasions, in 1986, 1990, 1993 and 1996. When he reached the 400-win plateau in 2005, he was one of only 29 active coaches in Division I to reach that milestone. He is a member of the ULM and Louisiana Association of Basketball Coaches Halls of Fame and the Southland Conference Hall of Honor.
Vining played collegiately at ULM under Lenny Fant and also won a state championship coaching Bastrop High Schoo
(04-02-2013 10:48 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote: [ -> ]ESPN did an all-time ranking and if you take the members of the Sun Belt out it would give us this order:
1. South Alabama (#82 overall)
2. Louisiana-Monroe (#96 overall)
3. Arkansas-Little Rock (#107 overall)
T4. Louisiana-Lafayette (#118 overall)
T4. Georgia Southern (#118 overall)
6. James Madison (#141 overall)
7. Troy (#161 overall)
8. Arkansas State (#168 overall)
9. Appalachian State (#172 overall)
10. Georgia State (#195 overall)
11. Texas State (#241 overall)
12. Texas-Arlington (#260 overall)
I think uta will be moving up the list with the new arena and increased support for athletics that has taken hold there..
(04-02-2013 10:53 PM)WKUYG Wrote: [ -> ]I would list ULL and USA as 1a and 1b and everyone else would be way down the list
ULL has 7 NCAA bids since 1980 and during the 70s they had a good program (don't have those records on this pc but when I get home I will look at them) but that's marred by NCAA sanctions basically the death penalty.
Had UofL beat if not for the refs and should have beaten Tenn.
2004-2005
#13 Louisiana 62, #4 Louisville 68
2003-2004
#14 Louisiana 52, #3 NC State 61
1999-2000
#13 Louisiana 58, #4 Tennessee 63
1993-1994
#11 Louisiana 59, #6 Marquette 81
1991-1992
#13 Louisiana 73, #12 New Mexico State 81
#13 Louisiana 87, #4 Oklahoma 83
1982-1983
#9 Rutgers 60, #8 Louisiana 53
1981-1982
#9 Tennessee 61, #8 Louisiana 57
I think the Cajuns actually played in 9 NCAA tournaments, but had four appearances vacated.
(04-03-2013 09:23 AM)dahbeed Wrote: [ -> ]i'm just shocked that big lots has 7 appearances.
when and who the hell-0 was on those teams. did they have a different name back then?
ULM dominated the Southland Conference from late 80s early 90s had a decent set of guards in Tony Jones and a Thompson kid I forgot his first name. I don't think they ever won a NCAA Tourney game.
That's why I would rank ULL and USA as top 2 in the SBC both at least won NCAA games. And if we are talking history then ULL would be 1a because of their early 70s teams that lost in the Lost Regional Semifinal.
But those teams were the reason for the death sentence. ULL (USL) appealed the NCAA post season ban that would have kept the most talented team they ever had out of the NCAA Tourney and with that and because of the recruitment of USL's best ever recruit Bo Lamar, they got the death sentence. Bo Lamar scored about 30 ppg but the Southland was true run and gun basketball with most games in the 90s or 100s. Their coach at the time, Beryl Shipley, would make Jessie Evans, look like a saint.
below is a SI cover I have with Bo Lamar on it
![[Image: dewightlamar_zps961a1dd0.jpg]](http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f117/wkuyoungguns/dewightlamar_zps961a1dd0.jpg)
(04-03-2013 11:41 AM)WKUYG Wrote: [ -> ] (04-03-2013 09:23 AM)dahbeed Wrote: [ -> ]i'm just shocked that big lots has 7 appearances.
when and who the hell-0 was on those teams. did they have a different name back then?
ULM dominated the Southland Conference from late 80s early 90s had a decent set of guards in Tony Jones and a Thompson kid I forgot his first name. I don't think they ever won a NCAA Tourney game.
That's why I would rank ULL and USA as top 2 in the SBC both at least won NCAA games. And if we are talking history then ULL would be 1a because of their early 70s teams that lost in the Lost Regional Semifinal.
But those teams were the reason for the death sentence. ULL (USL) appealed the NCAA post season ban that would have kept the most talented team they ever had out of the NCAA Tourney and with that and because of the recruitment of USL's best ever recruit Bo Lamar, they got the death sentence. Bo Lamar scored about 30 ppg but the Southland was true run and gun basketball with most games in the 90s or 100s. Their coach at the time, Beryl Shipley, would make Jessie Evans, look like a saint.
below is a SI cover I have with Bo Lamar on it
Not to be too picky, but the cover photo was of Roy Ebron, who was one of the best centers in the country at the time. There was a photo of Bo in the article about the tournament.
As an aside, there is currently a documentary in production about the NCAA ban on basketball as well as the collusion between the Louisiana State Board of Regents and the NCAA during this time. Much of this occurred due to then University of Southwestern Louisiana was on of the first southern universities to integrate both academically and athletically, which not all folks were happy about. For those interested, there is also a book about this time frame that was published in the last 4-5 years called Slam Dunked, which was written by Ron Gomez in conjunction with then USL Head Coach Beryl Shipley. It's an interesting read.
Georgia Southern basketball has been an absolute train wreck lately. 43-84 record in our last 4 years playing in a conference worse then the Sun Belt. But we have a new coach now and hopefully Mark Byington can get us back on the right track. But our first couple years in the Sun Belt could be a little rough depending on what the roster looks like due to players transferring in and out in the coming weeks.
The previous coach's last couple recruiting classes have been flops and it looks like the only productive player we signed in the past 2 years is going to transfer. That pretty much means that right now there is a 2 year hole in our roster where rising sophomores and juniors should be. Hopefully Byington can land some transfers this year, bring in some size, and get production out of players that the previous coach could do nothing with. Otherwise it's going to be beatdown central in our first year of SunBelt action.
(04-03-2013 01:11 PM)gsueagle23 Wrote: [ -> ]Georgia Southern basketball has been an absolute train wreck lately. 43-84 record in our last 4 years playing in a conference worse then the Sun Belt. But we have a new coach now and hopefully Mark Byington can get us back on the right track. But our first couple years in the Sun Belt could be a little rough depending on what the roster looks like due to players transferring in and out in the coming weeks.
The previous coach's last couple recruiting classes have been flops and it looks like the only productive player we signed in the past 2 years is going to transfer. That pretty much means that right now there is a 2 year hole in our roster where rising sophomores and juniors should be. Hopefully Byington can land some transfers this year, bring in some size, and get production out of players that the previous coach could do nothing with. Otherwise it's going to be beatdown central in our first year of SunBelt action.
We're right there with you.
We are currently coachless and have no recruits (likely due to former coach knowing he was going to get canned after the WAC tourney). It will take time for whomever we hire to get recruits and 2-3 years before we start to see improvement in a prgram that has sucked since Jeff Foster was drafted in 1999.
(04-03-2013 01:11 PM)gsueagle23 Wrote: [ -> ]Georgia Southern basketball has been an absolute train wreck lately. 43-84 record in our last 4 years playing in a conference worse then the Sun Belt. But we have a new coach now and hopefully Mark Byington can get us back on the right track. But our first couple years in the Sun Belt could be a little rough depending on what the roster looks like due to players transferring in and out in the coming weeks.
The previous coach's last couple recruiting classes have been flops and it looks like the only productive player we signed in the past 2 years is going to transfer. That pretty much means that right now there is a 2 year hole in our roster where rising sophomores and juniors should be. Hopefully Byington can land some transfers this year, bring in some size, and get production out of players that the previous coach could do nothing with. Otherwise it's going to be beatdown central in our first year of SunBelt action.
I'm not sure how much of it is the players have been flops (they were highly rated when they came to Southern) or just our previous coach was that bad at developing the talent he hauled in. Either way, it would be hard for us to get worse at this point.
(04-03-2013 01:08 PM)CajunAmos Wrote: [ -> ] (04-03-2013 11:41 AM)WKUYG Wrote: [ -> ] (04-03-2013 09:23 AM)dahbeed Wrote: [ -> ]i'm just shocked that big lots has 7 appearances.
when and who the hell-0 was on those teams. did they have a different name back then?
ULM dominated the Southland Conference from late 80s early 90s had a decent set of guards in Tony Jones and a Thompson kid I forgot his first name. I don't think they ever won a NCAA Tourney game.
That's why I would rank ULL and USA as top 2 in the SBC both at least won NCAA games. And if we are talking history then ULL would be 1a because of their early 70s teams that lost in the Lost Regional Semifinal.
But those teams were the reason for the death sentence. ULL (USL) appealed the NCAA post season ban that would have kept the most talented team they ever had out of the NCAA Tourney and with that and because of the recruitment of USL's best ever recruit Bo Lamar, they got the death sentence. Bo Lamar scored about 30 ppg but the Southland was true run and gun basketball with most games in the 90s or 100s. Their coach at the time, Beryl Shipley, would make Jessie Evans, look like a saint.
below is a SI cover I have with Bo Lamar on it
Not to be too picky, but the cover photo was of Roy Ebron, who was one of the best centers in the country at the time. There was a photo of Bo in the article about the tournament.
As an aside, there is currently a documentary in production about the NCAA ban on basketball as well as the collusion between the Louisiana State Board of Regents and the NCAA during this time. Much of this occurred due to then University of Southwestern Louisiana was on of the first southern universities to integrate both academically and athletically, which not all folks were happy about. For those interested, there is also a book about this time frame that was published in the last 4-5 years called Slam Dunked, which was written by Ron Gomez in conjunction with then USL Head Coach Beryl Shipley. It's an interesting read.
I do a lot of research on basketball and have 100s of thousands of file with articles, stats, pictures and newspaper clipping. USL's problems happened while Western was going through the scandal of Big Mac signing a pro contract before our F4 year.
So I ran across a lot of articles on USL problem and you're right I believe integrate is what caused USL to get punished but...
There's no doubt in my mind USL was paying players among other things. But in that time frame that was going on every where and especially at UCLA, the Big8 and SWC. UCAL's NCAA Championships is the biggest crock in college basketball. Their payroll was almost as high as a pro teams not to mention the drugs and sex (hookers) provided to their players.
The NCAA had to punish someone so USL got the death sentence
Yeah I knew that was USL's center I meant in the article. But it just goes to show how much espn and their separation has hurt most schools in D1 basketball. Before espn started brain washing kids into thinking there are only 60 or so good schools it wasn't uncommon to see top recruits at the USL, WKU'S of college basketball
"Their coach at the time, Beryl Shipley, would make Jessie Evans, look like a saint."
It's easy to paint with a broad brush. "They got the death penalty", therefore they must have been doing terrible things. There was a lot of crazy stuff going on in those days due to the program's success bringing in black players. LOTS of people in Louisiana (other state schools, Gulf States Conference officials, etc) were extremely unhappy that we began using black athletes; and VERY good ones to boot! So there was definitely an "agenda" WRT "putting USL in their place" within the state and conference.
I really do hope the documentary gets finished. I've read the book, and even as an alum and fan of the program, there were parts of it that were difficult to keep reading (mostly the legal findings, etc).
But those were some outstanding teams! And the atmosphere in the old coliseum was absolutely electric!
(04-03-2013 01:22 PM)CatMom Wrote: [ -> ]We're right there with you.
We are currently coachless and have no recruits (likely due to former coach knowing he was going to get canned after the WAC tourney). It will take time for whomever we hire to get recruits and 2-3 years before we start to see improvement in a prgram that has sucked since Jeff Foster was drafted in 1999.
Georgia Southern should be in a position to be VERY competitive in the SoCon this year regardless of if the freshman transfers out or not because we could have as many as 4 seniors starting. It's the 2014-2015 (first year in Sun Belt) that could be very bad. Once the roster is set in the next month or so we will know a lot more about our chances early on in the Sun Belt. Right now it could honestly go anywhere from being an immediate player to being everybody's whipping boy.
(04-03-2013 01:34 PM)Shof Wrote: [ -> ]"Their coach at the time, Beryl Shipley, would make Jessie Evans, look like a saint."
It's easy to paint with a broad brush. "They got the death penalty", therefore they must have been doing terrible things. There was a lot of crazy stuff going on in those days due to the program's success bringing in black players. LOTS of people in Louisiana (other state schools, Gulf States Conference officials, etc) were extremely unhappy that we began using black athletes; and VERY good ones to boot! So there was definitely an "agenda" WRT "putting USL in their place" within the state and conference.
I really do hope the documentary gets finished. I've read the book, and even as an alum and fan of the program, there were parts of it that were difficult to keep reading (mostly the legal findings, etc).
But those were some outstanding teams! And the atmosphere in the old coliseum was absolutely electric!
No broad brush and I even went on to say it was very common back in those days but the NCAA had to punish someone and we all know it wasn't going to be UCLA so USL was the logical choice. Logical in that a smaller school that was going against what other schools in the south wasn't doing...recruiting black players.
But I stick to this comment "Their coach at the time, Beryl Shipley, would make Jessie Evans, look like a saint."
USL and Western has that in common Western started recruiting black players in 1963 and the player went through death threats among other things.