Here's something that TMD will do for every MAC team after its bowl game. Up first is UT. I know a lot of people are down on the Rockets right now after a tough finish, but personally, I thought it was a good season. UT beat Cincy and almost won at Arizona. It had a great start, and just ran out of gas (largely thanks to injuries) late in the year.
Next year, with most of the core returning, the expectations should be through the roof.
http://themacdaily.com/toledos-2012-post-mortem/
Hate to kick the horse while it is down, but this is football. Most teams are tired and hurt at the end of the season. I did not see USU as that good of a team. Good, yes, great no. I believe that they played as many games as Toledo did. I am just a little bitter because I pull for all MAC teams in bowls and Toledo did more harm to the MAC in one game, than we can imagine. It was just a very weak effort.
(12-16-2012 04:53 PM)psc2009 Wrote: [ -> ]Next year, with most of the core returning, the expectations should be through the roof.
http://themacdaily.com/toledos-2012-post-mortem/
I tweeted this too but Jordan Lynch is returning next year. The huskies went B2B and return a ton of talent...have to be favs next year...no?
(12-16-2012 08:59 PM)numbersdontlie Wrote: [ -> ] (12-16-2012 04:53 PM)psc2009 Wrote: [ -> ]Next year, with most of the core returning, the expectations should be through the roof.
http://themacdaily.com/toledos-2012-post-mortem/
I tweeted this too but Jordan Lynch is returning next year. The huskies went B2B and return a ton of talent...have to be favs next year...no?
Without a doubt the Huskies will be the favorites in the west and MAC. And like Gflash wrote, injuries happen to every team. Yesterday and most of this season was a[n] [offensive] coaching concern, not a personnel concern.
(12-16-2012 05:11 PM)GFlash68 Wrote: [ -> ]I am just a little bitter because I pull for all MAC teams in bowls and Toledo did more harm to the MAC in one game, than we can imagine. It was just a very weak effort.
I couldn't agree more. That one really hurt.
(12-16-2012 05:11 PM)GFlash68 Wrote: [ -> ]Hate to kick the horse while it is down, but this is football. Most teams are tired and hurt at the end of the season. I did not see USU as that good of a team. Good, yes, great no. I believe that they played as many games as Toledo did. I am just a little bitter because I pull for all MAC teams in bowls and Toledo did more harm to the MAC in one game, than we can imagine. It was just a very weak effort.
You better hope Kent doesn't 'harm' the MAC in their bowl game.
But tell me, how many teams will lose their top defensive player - and heart of the defense - on the very first play of the game, and then lose one of the top RBs in the nation in the 1st quarter, and are still able to win a game? And don't give me the bulls*** about 'injuries are a part of the game.' Just because they are a part of the game doesn't make injuries ok. No team is ready for their top offensive and defensive player to both be knocked out in the first quarter.
The box score sure looks ugly but anyone who watched the game realized Toledo had a chance while not having their 2 best players until midway thru the 4th Qtr.
(12-17-2012 12:43 AM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote: [ -> ] (12-16-2012 05:11 PM)GFlash68 Wrote: [ -> ]Hate to kick the horse while it is down, but this is football. Most teams are tired and hurt at the end of the season. I did not see USU as that good of a team. Good, yes, great no. I believe that they played as many games as Toledo did. I am just a little bitter because I pull for all MAC teams in bowls and Toledo did more harm to the MAC in one game, than we can imagine. It was just a very weak effort.
You better hope Kent doesn't 'harm' the MAC in their bowl game.
But tell me, how many teams will lose their top defensive player - and heart of the defense - on the very first play of the game, and then lose one of the top RBs in the nation in the 1st quarter, and are still able to win a game? And don't give me the bulls*** about 'injuries are a part of the game.' Just because they are a part of the game doesn't make injuries ok. No team is ready for their top offensive and defensive player to both be knocked out in the first quarter.
That doesn't mean GFlash is wrong. It's unfortunate, but he's right.
Toledo was very much in the game through 85% of it. I turned it off after the missed 4th down (if you have to call a TO, go for the FG). I was shocked at the final score. Bizarre.
I'm not going to knock Toledo, as they did have some rabid bad luck. But, it is true this is a setback for the conference. Hope it's not a start of a trend.
I'm disappointed in the last 7:30 minutes of the game, but injuries this year showed two things, first it showed that Ohio University was not deep enough to overcome all of their injuries. 2nd it showed Toledo was not deep enough to overcome all of their injuries. They still had good seasons, but not quite the seasons they hoped for. Ohio had several guys out for the season, as did Toledo. Halfway through the season Toledo moved a tight end to the defensive line because so many DL players were out with injuries, many for the season.
This shows that while the MAC has a lot of talent, MAC schools just don't have the talent to play at that same level when they have so many injured.......the way an Alabama, LSU, etc do.
Also, flash said he/she was not impressed with Utah State this year. Utah State went 11-2, losing both games by a combined 5 points. They beat San Jose State (BG's bowl opponent) by 22 points. They beat a 9-3 Louisiana Tech team that was pretty good. One of their two losses was to a team playing in a BCS bowl game (albeit Wisconsin) by two points. They gave up less than 10 points (7 or less) in five of their 13 games. They were a top 25 team and they were very close to being in a BCS bowl game instead of Northern Illinois.......a field goal that went wide right in the final seconds at Wisconsin was probably the difference for them. Making that field goal and winning that game by one point probably puts them into the BCS over Northern Illinois.
If you're not impressed with Utah State than I guess it's hard to be impressed with what NIU did this year, huh?
(12-17-2012 09:00 AM)BrianNowicki Wrote: [ -> ]I'm disappointed in the last 7:30 minutes of the game, but injuries this year showed two things, first it showed that Ohio University was not deep enough to overcome all of their injuries. 2nd it showed Toledo was not deep enough to overcome all of their injuries. They still had good seasons, but not quite the seasons they hoped for. Ohio had several guys out for the season, as did Toledo. Halfway through the season Toledo moved a tight end to the defensive line because so many DL players were out with injuries, many for the season.
This shows that while the MAC has a lot of talent, MAC schools just don't have the talent to play at that same level when they have so many injured.......the way an Alabama, LSU, etc do.
MAC needs to work on that. I think that's actually soluble. Ohio has depth. Not everyone is elite, but it has depth. MAC teams need to develop a bigger fan base so kids aspire to play there, and in that sense MAC teams are competing with Mt Union, Findlay, Dayton, etc.
why is everyone jumping on Toledo's back? they weren't even favored in this game so give them a break. geez!
The final score was disappointing and makes the game look bad. But that was a very good Utah State team ranked #22 while Toledo wasn't ranked and played a QB that hadn't been playing most of the year, plus the additional injuries. Bad luck.
(12-17-2012 09:14 AM)DrTorch Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2012 09:00 AM)BrianNowicki Wrote: [ -> ]I'm disappointed in the last 7:30 minutes of the game, but injuries this year showed two things, first it showed that Ohio University was not deep enough to overcome all of their injuries. 2nd it showed Toledo was not deep enough to overcome all of their injuries. They still had good seasons, but not quite the seasons they hoped for. Ohio had several guys out for the season, as did Toledo. Halfway through the season Toledo moved a tight end to the defensive line because so many DL players were out with injuries, many for the season.
This shows that while the MAC has a lot of talent, MAC schools just don't have the talent to play at that same level when they have so many injured.......the way an Alabama, LSU, etc do.
MAC needs to work on that. I think that's actually soluble. Ohio has depth. Not everyone is elite, but it has depth. MAC teams need to develop a bigger fan base so kids aspire to play there, and in that sense MAC teams are competing with Mt Union, Findlay, Dayton, etc.
Competing with Mt Union, Findlay, Dayton, etc is not the problem. The problem is that you have Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State and Notre Dame that get the elite Ohio and Michigan HS kids. Then you've got Cincinnati a slight grade above the MAC in terms of getting recruits from Ohio and Michigan. And finally, then you have six Ohio schools and three Michigan schools in the MAC fighting for that remaining talent. That's what really kills the depth.
I guarantee you, as long as you have the above in it's entirety you will not see the kind of depth at those schools that is needed to overcome a bunch (not just a few) of injuries and not drop some in terms of talent still playing on the field.
(12-17-2012 10:38 AM)BrianNowicki Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2012 09:14 AM)DrTorch Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2012 09:00 AM)BrianNowicki Wrote: [ -> ]I'm disappointed in the last 7:30 minutes of the game, but injuries this year showed two things, first it showed that Ohio University was not deep enough to overcome all of their injuries. 2nd it showed Toledo was not deep enough to overcome all of their injuries. They still had good seasons, but not quite the seasons they hoped for. Ohio had several guys out for the season, as did Toledo. Halfway through the season Toledo moved a tight end to the defensive line because so many DL players were out with injuries, many for the season.
This shows that while the MAC has a lot of talent, MAC schools just don't have the talent to play at that same level when they have so many injured.......the way an Alabama, LSU, etc do.
MAC needs to work on that. I think that's actually soluble. Ohio has depth. Not everyone is elite, but it has depth. MAC teams need to develop a bigger fan base so kids aspire to play there, and in that sense MAC teams are competing with Mt Union, Findlay, Dayton, etc.
Competing with Mt Union, Findlay, Dayton, etc is not the problem. The problem is that you have Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State and Notre Dame that get the elite Ohio and Michigan HS kids. Then you've got Cincinnati a slight grade above the MAC in terms of getting recruits from Ohio and Michigan. And finally, then you have six Ohio schools and three Michigan schools in the MAC fighting for that remaining talent. That's what really kills the depth.
It's a matter of definition. Sure, MAC teams would love to recruit better against those schools, and that's important. You do have 3rd string or gray shirt players who can help MAC teams.
But there's more. I estimate that on average, each OAC school has 1.5 players that can contribute to a MAC team. Div II teams have more.
A rare few would be superstars (London Fletcher), but others would
contribute. And that's still depth when you consider how many Div II and III teams there are in the state.
There are also talented players playing IM at ZSU.
Same solution applies: make young fans who aspire to play in the MAC.
(12-16-2012 05:11 PM)GFlash68 Wrote: [ -> ]Hate to kick the horse while it is down, but this is football. Most teams are tired and hurt at the end of the season. I did not see USU as that good of a team. Good, yes, great no. I believe that they played as many games as Toledo did. I am just a little bitter because I pull for all MAC teams in bowls and Toledo did more harm to the MAC in one game, than we can imagine. It was just a very weak effort.
Didn't realize Kent State's weak effort of the last three decades didn't have any bearing on the MAC conference either? One could say its just a weak effort.
Enjoy your one banner season in three decades, maybe once you can win consistently and not get lucky one season, you can banter against the rest of the conference.
Can't say a weak effort, 7 mins left in the game 13-9, then everything collapsed. Yeah, sports fans will see the score, but real fans who watch the bowls will have realized that was a great bowl game until the last seven minutes.
(12-17-2012 11:32 AM)RocketinChicago Wrote: [ -> ] (12-16-2012 05:11 PM)GFlash68 Wrote: [ -> ]Hate to kick the horse while it is down, but this is football. Most teams are tired and hurt at the end of the season. I did not see USU as that good of a team. Good, yes, great no. I believe that they played as many games as Toledo did. I am just a little bitter because I pull for all MAC teams in bowls and Toledo did more harm to the MAC in one game, than we can imagine. It was just a very weak effort.
Didn't realize Kent State's weak effort of the last three decades didn't have any bearing on the MAC conference either? One could say its just a weak effort.
Enjoy your one banner season in three decades, maybe once you can win consistently and not get lucky one season, you can banter against the rest of the conference.
Can't say a weak effort, 7 mins left in the game 13-9, then everything collapsed. Yeah, sports fans will see the score, but real fans who watch the bowls will have realized that was a great bowl game until the last seven minutes.
The MAC conference?
I don't think people are down on UT, just disappointed they weren't able to pull out a win and that things fell apart in the 4th Q. I was more puzzled than anything. Why did it take so long to bring in Owens? What was the problem with the wasted time outs, delays getting calls in? Tough to move the ball without your stud RB, too one-dimensional.
(12-16-2012 04:53 PM)psc2009 Wrote: [ -> ]Here's something that TMD will do for every MAC team after its bowl game. Up first is UT. I know a lot of people are down on the Rockets right now after a tough finish, but personally, I thought it was a good season. UT beat Cincy and almost won at Arizona. It had a great start, and just ran out of gas (largely thanks to injuries) late in the year.
Next year, with most of the core returning, the expectations should be through the roof.
http://themacdaily.com/toledos-2012-post-mortem/
So Toledo finishes 2 spots lower than what was predicted by the media in their division, and loses their bowl game, and their grade is an A-?
No child left behind, amirite?
(12-17-2012 11:32 AM)RocketinChicago Wrote: [ -> ] (12-16-2012 05:11 PM)GFlash68 Wrote: [ -> ]Hate to kick the horse while it is down, but this is football. Most teams are tired and hurt at the end of the season. I did not see USU as that good of a team. Good, yes, great no. I believe that they played as many games as Toledo did. I am just a little bitter because I pull for all MAC teams in bowls and Toledo did more harm to the MAC in one game, than we can imagine. It was just a very weak effort.
Didn't realize Kent State's weak effort of the last three decades didn't have any bearing on the MAC conference either? One could say its just a weak effort.
Enjoy your one banner season in three decades, maybe once you can win consistently and not get lucky one season, you can banter against the rest of the conference.
Can't say a weak effort, 7 mins left in the game 13-9, then everything collapsed. Yeah, sports fans will see the score, but real fans who watch the bowls will have realized that was a great bowl game until the last seven minutes.
Sorry we were watching different games. I saw a team that looked like they were playing their first game of the year. The delay of game penalties and miscommunication can not be excused away. Toledo left points on the field by getting close to the red zone and then getting pushed back by play calling or delays of game. Sorry you missed most of this.
As for my Flashes, I have seen enough in 40 years of bad coaching and playing to be able to recognize it when I see it again. I also recognize that KSU could lay an egg in its bowl game and not help the MAC in attempting to raise its reputation. If that happens, I will make that same observation without prejudice.
I think all commentary is valid or non-valid based on its own merits, not the record of the poster's school. That would be silly.
Praising Toledo's performance Saturday would be stupid: they just didn't play that well, capping off a season that was disappointing to, I would guess, almost all of their fans and players. Maybe that's a bitter pill, but it has nothing at all to do with whether KSU won 1 game or 11 this season.
(12-17-2012 12:52 PM)GFlash68 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2012 11:32 AM)RocketinChicago Wrote: [ -> ] (12-16-2012 05:11 PM)GFlash68 Wrote: [ -> ]Hate to kick the horse while it is down, but this is football. Most teams are tired and hurt at the end of the season. I did not see USU as that good of a team. Good, yes, great no. I believe that they played as many games as Toledo did. I am just a little bitter because I pull for all MAC teams in bowls and Toledo did more harm to the MAC in one game, than we can imagine. It was just a very weak effort.
Didn't realize Kent State's weak effort of the last three decades didn't have any bearing on the MAC conference either? One could say its just a weak effort.
Enjoy your one banner season in three decades, maybe once you can win consistently and not get lucky one season, you can banter against the rest of the conference.
Can't say a weak effort, 7 mins left in the game 13-9, then everything collapsed. Yeah, sports fans will see the score, but real fans who watch the bowls will have realized that was a great bowl game until the last seven minutes.
Sorry we were watching different games. I saw a team that looked like they were playing their first game of the year. The delay of game penalties and miscommunication can not be excused away. Toledo left points on the field by getting close to the red zone and then getting pushed back by play calling or delays of game. Sorry you missed most of this.
As for my Flashes, I have seen enough in 40 years of bad coaching and playing to be able to recognize it when I see it again. I also recognize that KSU could lay an egg in its bowl game and not help the MAC in attempting to raise its reputation. If that happens, I will make that same observation without prejudice.
Well, the QB is pretty much the leader on the field, and Toledo's QB hadn't played most of the year so in a sense, it almost was their first game. It was frustrating to watch. But I know NIU had to call 2 timeouts on the same drive against Kent State because they didn't get the play called fast enough. That wasn't the only time either. It happens.