Pulled from another board.
http://cincinnati.247sports.com/Board/39...14444328/1
No doubt this is a rocky time in the history of Bearcats athletics and every fan will have to look inward as to how best to proceed when it comes to their emotional and financial support towards UC. I think there are enough threads to discuss the past and even the present and my goal is to move the conversation to the future. What is the future of UC athletics? I believe UC does have very strong leadership with President Ono and AD Babcock but I also believe its time we as fans were given real answers about what the plan is moving forward. I believe we deserve real answers when it comes to the most pressing questions that currently surround UC athletics and I think its time we as fan join together and in a very professional way make sure that those in power know we are concerned and want to know how things are going to be moving forward.
I plan on crafting an email that will ask some of or all of the following questions.
Where are we currently on a Nippert Stadium renovation/addition?
Where are we currently on a Shoemaker Center renovation?
We are asked to donate money but we as fans have not been presented with any tangible evidence that either of those facilities will be upgraded in the near future so we feel we are just giving money and have no clue where its being allocated, can you offer any sort of assurance that there are funds being set aside for the improvement of our two biggest facilities?
Can you offer an update as to the overall donor pool? Is it getting larger? Is UC bringing in more corporate dollars then in the past? How much has UCATS grown (in members and dollars) over the last 5 years, 3 years, 1 year?
Do you plan to continue competing in football at the same level UC fans have been accustom to and if you do how do you plan on keeping that success going?
Do you feel under the current overall college landscape that it is best specific to UC to distribute more resources to basketball and while not giving up on football to do everything in the universities power to elevate basketball to the highest level it can reach?
I believe the time is now that these and many other questions are answered, even if that means some dont like those answers it is important that UC tells it customers where they are planning on taking athletics and how they plan on getting there.
I would urge everyone to post this on twitter and facebook and relay this message to as many Bearcats fans as possible and its my hope that someone from within the athletic department will see this as well. If we want greatness for UC we have to demand these questions are answered and its up to us, the most loyal of fans, to make sure President Ono and AD Babcock know we truly care about the future of UC athletics.
David Simone
david.n.simone@gmail.com
University of Tennessee '05
If we want a blue print on "how to do it", look no further to our friends in the 'ville. I'm sickened by the fact we'll be removed from our rivalry w/ them, but greatly admire what they have achieved. They just didn't wake up and "out politic" their way ahead of us into the ACC..it's a story of vision, true leadership, and investment...all led by a dynamic AD who could sell ice to Eskimos. He built "sr. level" relationships w/ the movers and shakers in Louisville and sold a vision for why big time BCS level athletics "mattered". It was also a 15 year journey.......not a powerpoint w/ talking points.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--loui...nM-;_ylv=3
Ono is so young and inexperienced ..........as is Babcock. IF we want a future, we need to treat this as a strategic mission w/ a goal of gaining access to a premier conference. The plan has to be "led" dynamically and worked diligently...and should involve any and all resources who believe that vision is key to the vibrancy of the positioning of the University. We'll see what kind of leaders we have.........but damn I wish we had a Jurich.
(11-28-2012 03:24 PM)mbl95 Wrote: [ -> ]If we want a blue print on "how to do it", look no further to our friends in the 'ville. I'm sickened by the fact we'll be removed from our rivalry w/ them, but greatly admire what they have achieved. They just didn't wake up and "out politic" their way ahead of us into the ACC..it's a story of vision, true leadership, and investment...all led by a dynamic AD who could sell ice to Eskimos. He built "sr. level" relationships w/ the movers and shakers in Louisville and sold a vision for why big time BCS level athletics "mattered". It was also a 15 year journey.......not a powerpoint w/ talking points.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--loui...nM-;_ylv=3
Ono is so young and inexperienced ..........as is Babcock. IF we want a future, we need to treat this as a strategic mission w/ a goal of gaining access to a premier conference. The plan has to be "led" dynamically and worked diligently...and should involve any and all resources who believe that vision is key to the vibrancy of the positioning of the University. We'll see what kind of leaders we have.........but damn I wish we had a Jurich.
Give me a break. If Louisville's turnaround is such a "miracle" then why were they picked after Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers, Maryland, WVU, and TCU in the realignment game? They're a choice of convenience, not a choice of preference.
(11-28-2012 03:34 PM)MickMack Wrote: [ -> ] (11-28-2012 03:24 PM)mbl95 Wrote: [ -> ]If we want a blue print on "how to do it", look no further to our friends in the 'ville. I'm sickened by the fact we'll be removed from our rivalry w/ them, but greatly admire what they have achieved. They just didn't wake up and "out politic" their way ahead of us into the ACC..it's a story of vision, true leadership, and investment...all led by a dynamic AD who could sell ice to Eskimos. He built "sr. level" relationships w/ the movers and shakers in Louisville and sold a vision for why big time BCS level athletics "mattered". It was also a 15 year journey.......not a powerpoint w/ talking points.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--loui...nM-;_ylv=3
Ono is so young and inexperienced ..........as is Babcock. IF we want a future, we need to treat this as a strategic mission w/ a goal of gaining access to a premier conference. The plan has to be "led" dynamically and worked diligently...and should involve any and all resources who believe that vision is key to the vibrancy of the positioning of the University. We'll see what kind of leaders we have.........but damn I wish we had a Jurich.
Give me a break. If Louisville's turnaround is such a "miracle" then why were they picked after Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers, Maryland, WVU, and TCU in the realignment game? They're a choice of convenience, not a choice of preference.
Look at UL's facilities and the revenue their athletics bring in. They have built a quality athletic program down there. The only reason they haven't been picked up prior to now is a small media market.
(11-28-2012 03:37 PM)bearcat65 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-28-2012 03:34 PM)MickMack Wrote: [ -> ] (11-28-2012 03:24 PM)mbl95 Wrote: [ -> ]If we want a blue print on "how to do it", look no further to our friends in the 'ville. I'm sickened by the fact we'll be removed from our rivalry w/ them, but greatly admire what they have achieved. They just didn't wake up and "out politic" their way ahead of us into the ACC..it's a story of vision, true leadership, and investment...all led by a dynamic AD who could sell ice to Eskimos. He built "sr. level" relationships w/ the movers and shakers in Louisville and sold a vision for why big time BCS level athletics "mattered". It was also a 15 year journey.......not a powerpoint w/ talking points.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--loui...nM-;_ylv=3
Ono is so young and inexperienced ..........as is Babcock. IF we want a future, we need to treat this as a strategic mission w/ a goal of gaining access to a premier conference. The plan has to be "led" dynamically and worked diligently...and should involve any and all resources who believe that vision is key to the vibrancy of the positioning of the University. We'll see what kind of leaders we have.........but damn I wish we had a Jurich.
Give me a break. If Louisville's turnaround is such a "miracle" then why were they picked after Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers, Maryland, WVU, and TCU in the realignment game? They're a choice of convenience, not a choice of preference.
Look at UL's facilities and the revenue their athletics bring in. They have built a quality athletic program down there. The only reason they haven't been picked up prior to now is a small media market.
Look, they've done a lot of things right. I won't argue that point, but when their invite to the ACC is characterized as a "sporting miracle," we're firmly in the world of ridiculous. Their revenue is driven largely by bball. Jurich didn't create that. It was already there.
edit* On second thought, probably a lot of butthurt by me in this post. Jurich has done a great job, and that program kills it in revenue. All that being said, "sports miracle" is still a stupid caption.
UL is largely a product of the culture in which they operate. They have the same malevolent "big brother" we do (UK vs. OSU) but otherwise they have nothing to distract their marketplace or fragment their potential fanbase. I'm sure they've done a lot right over the years to maximize their advantages, but the fact is they have those advantages. They are like a larger Dayton, or a smaller state school, where a lot of people are UL fans through and through, and in Kentucky they also benefit from the feeling that people either love or hate UK. If you don't like UK for whatever reason, you are primed to love UL, and support them in various ways. In Cincinnati, if you don't like OSU, you have many other things to love besides UC. Otherwise, in Louisville, there is nothing competing with UL.
Also, they don't labor under the oppressive negative media coverage that UC does here. In Louisville, UL is recognized for the huge asset it is and covered accordingly, whereas Cincinnati media seem to be indifferent to UC, or worse.
And because of the free-flowing resources available to UL, they are able to leverage the success they've had. Great basketball at UL since they were fortunate enough to land Denny Crum, and later Rick Pitino, two great coaches who weren't looking to leave for greener pastures. Entertaining teams. Schnellenberger built football, and then they have had other entertaining teams and good coaches (not sure any great football coaches) that were able to consistently win and hit some very high water marks along the way.
Beyond this, I've wondered how Louisville and Syracuse have been able to build and sustain their basketball success. The cities and schools themselves are not compelling in the least -- kind of like nowhere places -- but somehow these two places have become entrenched and full of history and tradition .... their futures are assured. Huggins could have done that in Cincy (of course he was flawed in some key ways), but even so, UL simply has an edge that we don't have and maybe never will. It's somewhat a matter of bad luck to be located in a "weird" place and shaped by a quirky populace. We are victims of circumstance and, to a lesser extent, our own worst enemy.
(11-28-2012 05:00 PM)George Kaplan Wrote: [ -> ]UL is largely a product of the culture in which they operate. They have the same malevolent "big brother" we do (UK vs. OSU) but otherwise they have nothing to distract their marketplace or fragment their potential fanbase. I'm sure they've done a lot right over the years to maximize their advantages, but the fact is they have those advantages. They are like a larger Dayton, or a smaller state school, where a lot of people are UL fans through and through, and in Kentucky they also benefit from the feeling that people either love or hate UK. If you don't like UK for whatever reason, you are primed to love UL, and support them in various ways. In Cincinnati, if you don't like OSU, you have many other things to love besides UC. Otherwise, in Louisville, there is nothing competing with UL.
Also, they don't labor under the oppressive negative media coverage that UC does here. In Louisville, UL is recognized for the huge asset it is and covered accordingly, whereas Cincinnati media seem to be indifferent to UC, or worse.
And because of the free-flowing resources available to UL, they are able to leverage the success they've had. Great basketball at UL since they were fortunate enough to land Denny Crum, and later Rick Pitino, two great coaches who weren't looking to leave for greener pastures. Entertaining teams. Schnellenberger built football, and then they have had other entertaining teams and good coaches (not sure any great football coaches) that were able to consistently win and hit some very high water marks along the way.
Beyond this, I've wondered how Louisville and Syracuse have been able to build and sustain their basketball success. The cities and schools themselves are not compelling in the least -- kind of like nowhere places -- but somehow these two places have become entrenched and full of history and tradition .... their futures are assured. Huggins could have done that in Cincy (of course he was flawed in some key ways), but even so, UL simply has an edge that we don't have and maybe never will. It's somewhat a matter of bad luck to be located in a "weird" place and shaped by a quirky populace. We are victims of circumstance and, to a lesser extent, our own worst enemy.
Louisville is a big college town. The best programs are in college towns, where the university is the persononality of the city. Cincinnati is not that, yet we have a pretty good program here. You could say UC has been a good football program for the past 7 years despite the fact that it is located in a big/pro city.
(11-28-2012 03:24 PM)mbl95 Wrote: [ -> ]If we want a blue print on "how to do it", look no further to our friends in the 'ville. I'm sickened by the fact we'll be removed from our rivalry w/ them, but greatly admire what they have achieved. They just didn't wake up and "out politic" their way ahead of us into the ACC..it's a story of vision, true leadership, and investment...all led by a dynamic AD who could sell ice to Eskimos. He built "sr. level" relationships w/ the movers and shakers in Louisville and sold a vision for why big time BCS level athletics "mattered". It was also a 15 year journey.......not a powerpoint w/ talking points.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--loui...nM-;_ylv=3
Ono is so young and inexperienced ..........as is Babcock. IF we want a future, we need to treat this as a strategic mission w/ a goal of gaining access to a premier conference. The plan has to be "led" dynamically and worked diligently...and should involve any and all resources who believe that vision is key to the vibrancy of the positioning of the University. We'll see what kind of leaders we have.........but damn I wish we had a Jurich.
Louisville was "out politicked" as you say by West Virginia into the Big 12. They are in the ACC now because the ACC is trying to keep the big football powers of Fla. St and Clemson from leaving the conference. They wanted Louisville over UCONN. They did not want another primary basketball power.
UC needs to put a plan together on how they will promote themselves to the big power conferences ( primarily the ACC and Big 12) when the next round of reallignment comes up. They need to build relationships with the true power brokers of those conferences. I don't know of a plan by UC or how they will execute it so when that time comes they aren't just sending their resume to someone and hoping they get picked.
Why did Louisville get picked as the football program to add for Fla. St and Clemson - I would say primarily facilties. UC needs a plan for gettign that done. It certainly isn't winning on the field.
Well, there have certainly been an awful lot of "studies" done on renovating Nippert and 5/3. Do they plan to merely study these issues forever, or actually do something with the results?
(11-28-2012 07:31 PM)UnivCinBrct Wrote: [ -> ]Well, there have certainly been an awful lot of "studies" done on renovating Nippert and 5/3. Do they plan to merely study these issues forever, or actually do something with the results?
I was wondering the same thing. I know they take money to do and that takes some time, but I thought one of the big things we heard about Babcock when he was hired was his fundraising and marketing abilities. I very well could be missing them but it doesn't look like he has done much of this since he has gotten here.
(11-28-2012 05:00 PM)George Kaplan Wrote: [ -> ]Beyond this, I've wondered how Louisville and Syracuse have been able to build and sustain their basketball success. The cities and schools themselves are not compelling in the least -- kind of like nowhere places -- but somehow these two places have become entrenched and full of history and tradition .... their futures are assured. Huggins could have done that in Cincy (of course he was flawed in some key ways), but even so, UL simply has an edge that we don't have and maybe never will. It's somewhat a matter of bad luck to be located in a "weird" place and shaped by a quirky populace. We are victims of circumstance and, to a lesser extent, our own worst enemy.
I've always thought that the very best places in the country for basketball recruiting are Indiana and NYC, and the regions immediately surrounding them (Chicago, NKY, Eastern OH, Boston, and Philly). No surprise that all the greatest basketball programs in the country except UNC, Duke, and KU are also located there.
(11-28-2012 07:41 PM)righthook Wrote: [ -> ] (11-28-2012 07:31 PM)UnivCinBrct Wrote: [ -> ]Well, there have certainly been an awful lot of "studies" done on renovating Nippert and 5/3. Do they plan to merely study these issues forever, or actually do something with the results?
I was wondering the same thing. I know they take money to do and that takes some time, but I thought one of the big things we heard about Babcock when he was hired was his fundraising and marketing abilities. I very well could be missing them but it doesn't look like he has done much of this since he has gotten here.
I was always under the impression that we were waiting for the media deal to be announced to ensure that we have funding, with the idea that if we're in C-USA lite, we won't do it. Looks now like that was a poor decision.
The more I read and hear him talk, the more concerned I am with Whit Babcock. When Bill Koch asked him in the paper this morning what was his reaction to the ACC decision to take UL, his response was we are losing a great rival. Koch actually asked again and followed up with, surely your biggest disappointment was not losing Lousiville was it? Then he says we need to compete at the highest level. Yesterday on Mo Eggers show he indicated he needs to be the leader around UC in athletics. I'm not seeing him leading anything anywhere. Our facilities are becoming more and more run down, the service is worse than ever, the schedule for both basketball and football is awful and we can't seem to get anywhere when it comes to our facility upgrades. My question to Whit (get it), what the H _ _ _ is going on in Clifton????
(11-29-2012 06:20 AM)Vewb1 Wrote: [ -> ]The more I read and hear him talk, the more concerned I am with Whit Babcock. When Bill Koch asked him in the paper this morning what was his reaction to the ACC decision to take UL, his response was we are losing a great rival. Koch actually asked again and followed up with, surely your biggest disappointment was not losing Lousiville was it? Then he says we need to compete at the highest level. Yesterday on Mo Eggers show he indicated he needs to be the leader around UC in athletics. I'm not seeing him leading anything anywhere. Our facilities are becoming more and more run down, the service is worse than ever, the schedule for both basketball and football is awful and we can't seem to get anywhere when it comes to our facility upgrades. My question to Whit (get it), what the H _ _ _ is going on in Clifton????
Agreed. I've not been impressed at all with him. You're absolutely spot on about the facilities becoming more an more run down along with poor service. This is the first year I've been to high school football games at UC where the service was virtually non-existent and Nippert was extremely dirty. You would think they'd want to showcase Nippert and the service in a positive light with some of the big name programs who played there.
(11-29-2012 06:20 AM)Vewb1 Wrote: [ -> ]Our facilities are becoming more and more run down, the service is worse than ever, the schedule for both basketball and football is awful and we can't seem to get anywhere when it comes to our facility upgrades. My question to Whit (get it), what the H _ _ _ is going on in Clifton????
A few things. Not sure what service you are talking about but service through the ticket office has improved 100% and that can directly be traced to the AD switch. I have not noticed any difference in service otherwise so maybe you can clarify. The schedule for basketball is the best it has been in 5 years. The football schedule was rough this year but surely you don't need to be told why right? Next years football schedule is miles better, not sure what the complaint is there.
As for the facilities. Yes they need to be improved. The simple truth is there is no money and no certainty UC will be moving to a conference with a tv deal to pay for such renovations.
People always complain how negative the media is in Cincinnati, one quick look at this message board and it sure seems like negativity is what the consumers are asking for...
(11-29-2012 06:20 AM)Vewb1 Wrote: [ -> ]The more I read and hear him talk, the more concerned I am with Whit Babcock. When Bill Koch asked him in the paper this morning what was his reaction to the ACC decision to take UL, his response was we are losing a great rival. Koch actually asked again and followed up with, surely your biggest disappointment was not losing Lousiville was it? Then he says we need to compete at the highest level. Yesterday on Mo Eggers show he indicated he needs to be the leader around UC in athletics. I'm not seeing him leading anything anywhere. Our facilities are becoming more and more run down, the service is worse than ever, the schedule for both basketball and football is awful and we can't seem to get anywhere when it comes to our facility upgrades. My question to Whit (get it), what the H _ _ _ is going on in Clifton????
Again...what do you want Whit to do?
He can't force alums to donate more money. He can work the phones and work the big donors, but they have to be the ones to open their wallets and support the program financially. If alums don't donate more money and buy more tickets, the athletics budget can't increase.
You want better opponents at Nippert and 5/3rd? That costs money, or it requires 2-1 / 3-1 road/home agreements that limits opportunities in the future.
You want a renovated Nippert or 5/3rd? That costs money (and lots of it). The school had to beg, plead and beg some more just to get the alums and boosters to donate $13m for an indoor practice facility to be built.
What do you want Whit to say about Louisville? It sucks. Losing WVU, Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and Louisville significantly undermines our ability to compete -- it limits the quality of matchup UC can present to fans, it limits the quality of TV money that will flow to the university, and it limits the exposure for the program (since no one in their right mind will put any of these "new" Big East games in prime spots on prime networks).
But Whit can't be doom and gloom about things -- the alums of this program already do a better job than he could ever do at:
1.) Being negative about the program
2.) Looking for any reason whatsoever not to support the program financially
3.) Finding excuses not to show up for games
He still has a job to do, and the only thing he can do is make the university look as good as possible for the next time (be it next week or next decade) that the expansion merry-go-round starts spinning again. In order for that to happen, he needs the turnstiles moving at Nippert and 5/3rd and he needs the laughably small pool of boosters to keep giving money to the ADs office.
Its reality. Discussing it is not being negative.
Fact is If we are stuck in this conference we are going back to the dark days of recruiting against MAC schools for players.
(11-29-2012 05:11 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: [ -> ] (11-28-2012 07:41 PM)righthook Wrote: [ -> ] (11-28-2012 07:31 PM)UnivCinBrct Wrote: [ -> ]Well, there have certainly been an awful lot of "studies" done on renovating Nippert and 5/3. Do they plan to merely study these issues forever, or actually do something with the results?
I was wondering the same thing. I know they take money to do and that takes some time, but I thought one of the big things we heard about Babcock when he was hired was his fundraising and marketing abilities. I very well could be missing them but it doesn't look like he has done much of this since he has gotten here.
I was always under the impression that we were waiting for the media deal to be announced to ensure that we have funding, with the idea that if we're in C-USA lite, we won't do it. Looks now like that was a poor decision.
Can't confirm but it sounds like plans have been released to UCats members. So they have actually spent money to come up with ideas of what a renovated 5/3rd and Nippert Stadium will look like. Why they haven't released those plans to the general public is beyond me.
