If we are all heading down the path to four 16 team super conferences, which everyone has been talking about and makes even more sense with a 4 team playoff...
Then, who survives when all said and done for that 4th super conference - ACC or Big 12?
ACC pros:
- 3 more teams at moment.
- $50M exit fee to deter defectors
- not dead/alive based on one team (Texas)
- Basketball strength
- Notre Dame Affiliation
ACC cons:
- weak on-field product last few years
- many reports of wandering eyes to B1G, SEC, Big 12
- can only reload through Big East
- Bad TV deal compared to Big 12
BIG 12 pros:
- anchor program that stabilizes whole (Texas)
- Grant of Rights
- could potentially reload through Big East AND ACC
- Good TV deal compared to ACC, more $$$
- Additional Contract Bowl Agreement (2)
BIG 12 cons:
- Texas flirtations with other power conferences
- only 10 teams... would need 6 more
- GOR could worry expansion teams
- Not too excited about conference champ game
So if one conference gets to survive as one of the final Power 4 when all is finally settled... who do you guys think wins that battle and why?
I must have missed the news about the B12's additional contract bowl.
Only Notre Dame can decide the winner.
(11-21-2012 03:48 AM)He1nousOne Wrote: [ -> ]Only Notre Dame can decide the winner.
Texas can too, if they say F the GoR we're coming to the Pac 16 w/ the rest of Texahoma, and the LHN failed so the GoR doesn't count(enter any loophole here).
I wonder if B12 will go after ND first, work out some sort of deal there first, some sort of affiliation or whatever, and then, second, pick the remaining ACC schools whoever they want.
ND could agree to play 6 B12 games, 3 in the east B12 division agains Florida St, Clemson, Pitt, whatever. And 3 in the west B12 division. These 6 games spread among two divisions in a 14 or 16 team B12 would have a "national" schedule feel about them rather than a "conference" feel.
ND doesn't like B1G and B12 doesn't like PAC.
(11-21-2012 04:15 AM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote: [ -> ] (11-21-2012 03:48 AM)He1nousOne Wrote: [ -> ]Only Notre Dame can decide the winner.
Texas can too, if they say F the GoR we're coming to the Pac 16 w/ the rest of Texahoma, and the LHN failed so the GoR doesn't count(enter any loophole here).
There is a GoR with the Champions Bowl agreement too. The LHN failing will cause Texas to give up on the Big 12 but that wont be what can get them out.
The Big 12 may have to be dissolved for that. That means finding landing spots for 8 out of 10 schools I think.
HO, the GoR is going nowhere for the next 13 years, and the Longhorns can't get enough support to disband the conference. So you can forget that approach...
The ACC's biggest problem is that the diverse interests that eventually pulled The BEast apart haven't disappeared. They've just migrated over to the ACC. There are schools that value football, and schools that don't. Nobody is are on the same page, and the politics of the ACC favor Tobacco Road - and basketball - pretty much the same situation that existed in The BEast...
Notre Dame has an ACC deal similar to the deal the Irish had with The BEast. The Irish get to park all their minor sports in the ACC, yet they keep their main program - football - independent. If the Irish follow through with their promise to play 6 games with ACC schools during the football season, it will be far more than they ever did with The BEast. The BEast didn't even see the 3 games ND contracted to play among BEast schools...
The instabilities and diverse agendas that eventually destroyed The BEast have merely migrated to a new conference. It's going to be a matter of time before it has the same result in the ACC. That time may be arriving sooner than anyone expected, including me...
The New AQ hierarchy...
The B1G and SEC rule the roost
The B12 GoR is a mountain range (that most prefer to ignore) separating...
The P12 on its western island (with few expansion candidates)
At the window looking in...
The BEast is dead
Long live The BEast (ACC becomes The NEW BEast)
(11-21-2012 02:30 AM)rutgers4life Wrote: [ -> ]If we are all heading down the path to four 16 team super conferences...
We're not, next question?
All the ACC has to do work with the PAC 10
PAC agrees to take Texoma 4
ACC agrees to take at least four L10 remainders (gonna need more replacements soon) and possibly all of them depending on how bad they get raided by the B1G and or SEC.
ACC gets to survive even in a diminished capacity but the B12 ceases to exist.
Note: I don't think this will happen, but the point is that the GOR is not insurmountable.
(11-21-2012 11:18 AM)bitcruncher Wrote: [ -> ]HO, the GoR is going nowhere for the next 13 years, and the Longhorns can't get enough support to disband the conference. So you can forget that approach...
The ACC's biggest problem is that the diverse interests that eventually pulled The BEast apart haven't disappeared. They've just migrated over to the ACC. There are schools that value football, and schools that don't. Nobody is are on the same page, and the politics of the ACC favor Tobacco Road - and basketball - pretty much the same situation that existed in The BEast...
Notre Dame has an ACC deal similar to the deal the Irish had with The BEast. The Irish get to park all their minor sports in the ACC, yet they keep their main program - football - independent. If the Irish follow through with their promise to play 6 games with ACC schools during the football season, it will be far more than they ever did with The BEast. The BEast didn't even see the 3 games ND contracted to play among BEast schools...
The instabilities and diverse agendas that eventually destroyed The BEast have merely migrated to a new conference. It's going to be a matter of time before it has the same result in the ACC. That time may be arriving sooner than anyone expected, including me...
The New AQ hierarchy...
The B1G and SEC rule the roost
The B12 GoR is a mountain range (that most prefer to ignore) separating...
The P12 on its western island (with few expansion candidates)
At the window looking in...
The BEast is dead
Long live The BEast (ACC becomes The NEW BEast)
I think you need to switch the order of he PAC 12 and th Big 12. The difference between the PAC 12 and the Big 12 is that no one is wants to leave the PAC 12, but 4 teams have already left the Big 12, and the Texahoma 4 came THIS close to leaving. Granted the GOR makes it incredibly unlikely that anyone is leaving any time soon, but the seeds of dissent are there.
The Texoma 4 are going nowhere, dude. The GoR guarantees that for the next dozen years...
The B12 is a wall, preventing the P12 from expanding. That was the entire point of my placement in the list. I guess you missed that...
(11-21-2012 02:30 AM)rutgers4life Wrote: [ -> ]If we are all heading down the path to four 16 team super conferences, which everyone has been talking about and makes even more sense with a 4 team playoff...
Then, who survives when all said and done for that 4th super conference - ACC or Big 12?
ACC pros:
- 3 more teams at moment.
- $50M exit fee to deter defectors
- not dead/alive based on one team (Texas)
- Basketball strength
- Notre Dame Affiliation
ACC cons:
- weak on-field product last few years
- many reports of wandering eyes to B1G, SEC, Big 12
- can only reload through Big East
- Bad TV deal compared to Big 12
BIG 12 pros:
- anchor program that stabilizes whole (Texas)
- Grant of Rights
- could potentially reload through Big East AND ACC
- Good TV deal compared to ACC, more $$$
- Additional Contract Bowl Agreement (2)
BIG 12 cons:
- Texas flirtations with other power conferences
- only 10 teams... would need 6 more
- GOR could worry expansion teams
- Not too excited about conference champ game
So if one conference gets to survive as one of the final Power 4 when all is finally settled... who do you guys think wins that battle and why?
I do not think we are on the way to 4x16. I just dont think it is practical. Think about this for a minute.
The only way that the PAC 12 goes to 16 teams is if Texas is involved and if Texas goes to the PAC, guess which conference is not going to be one of the 4x16?
The Big 12 win because if there theoretically all exit fees/GoR's were removed, at least three (FSU, Clemson, and Pitt) would move to the B12, but what Big 12 team would go to th ACC.
The only way to get to 4x16 is if the Pac12 blows up the Big12. If you don't think that will happen then there is not 4x16 model that works unless ND gathers up 4 east coast teams like ND, PITT, SU and BC and creates an East Pod in the Pac12.
I have said this many of times that if it is 4x16 then the B12 and ACC will have to combine the leftovers. But the leftovers will make for one good conference.
the big 12 would be the survivor.
there are more teams to get away from (in terms of the big money sport of football) in the acc than there are in the big 12. plus, its very likely that the sec (virginia tech and nc state) and big 10 (virginia and georgia tech) will also be taking from the acc - so it'll be falling apart anyway. it's also harder to kick teams out than it is to leave them behind - so the big 12 invites the biggest/best 6 remaining programs from the acc and the big east and leaves behind the weakest overall sports programs.
the big 16:
north: iowa state, kansas, kansas state, oklahoma, oklahoma state, west virginia, louisville, pitt
south: texas, texas tech, baylor, tcu, florida state, miami, clemson, north carolina
the acc leftovers: boston college, syracuse, wake forest, duke
the big east leftovers: connecticut, temple, cincinnati, usf, ucf, memphis, houston, smu
plus football only programs: boise state, sdsu, navy
acc invites: connecticut, temple, cincinnati, memphis, usf and ucf
MWC takes boise state, sdsu back (plus byu) and then invites houston
The real question is..... Longhorn Network or Pac12, who wins?
My gut tells me that it will be the P12. I don't care to hear any GOR arguments because frankly they won't mean crap in the end. That leaves the "Final 4" with a West Coast/Central Conference, a Southern Based Confernce, a Midwest/NE Conference and an East Coast Conference. The 4 corners of the US are essentially covered and relatively separated from each other.
The winner of Big 12 vs ACC is who moves first. Does the Pac12 raid the Big 12, or the Big 12 raid the ACC? My bet is on the Big 12 trying to pry FSU, Clemson, and 2 others first, to avoid the PAC 12 raid.
(11-21-2012 12:31 PM)Aztec Since 88 Wrote: [ -> ]The winner of Big 12 vs ACC is who moves first. Does the Pac12 raid the Big 12, or the Big 12 raid the ACC? My bet is on the Big 12 trying to pry FSU, Clemson, and 2 others first, to avoid the PAC 12 raid.
The thing is even if the B12 grabs FSU and Clemson and 2 others. There is no place for the PAC 12 to expand so if they do so it will the Texas 4 foresome meaning the B12 will be no better than what the ACC currently is.
The big domino that has to fall is the PAC12 then everything after that will settle.
Sorry bitcruncher, but I just don't think that GOR means much of anything if the Pac12 wants 4 of 10 members and all 4 of those members decide they want to go.