Between Toledo and Ohio going down I was really hoping that both would win get to NIU v. Toledo at 1 loss and Ohio v. Kent 1 each total. Both of them losing hurts the case for the MAC to say these teams had quality wins at least at the same level with 2 1 loss teams in the MAC Championship. Still good teams but not as great as it could have been.
(11-08-2012 05:07 PM)wmu2012 Wrote: [ -> ]Between Toledo and Ohio going down I was really hoping that both would win get to NIU v. Toledo at 1 loss and Ohio v. Kent 1 each total. Both of them losing hurts the case for the MAC to say these teams had quality wins at least at the same level with 2 1 loss teams in the MAC Championship. Still good teams but not as great as it could have been.
Ball St and BGSU are now considered quality teams in several BCS computers.
So really instead of 4 quality teams we now have 6. It not like we were going to have a top 15 or 10 team so it doesn't really matter.
Actually now a good chunk of Ohio and Toledo top 25 votes are going to go to Kent St and NIU which should help put both in the top 26 this Sunday...assuming Kent St wins as NIU is on the MAC bye weekend.
(11-08-2012 05:15 PM)HuskieJohn Wrote: [ -> ] (11-08-2012 05:07 PM)wmu2012 Wrote: [ -> ]Between Toledo and Ohio going down I was really hoping that both would win get to NIU v. Toledo at 1 loss and Ohio v. Kent 1 each total. Both of them losing hurts the case for the MAC to say these teams had quality wins at least at the same level with 2 1 loss teams in the MAC Championship. Still good teams but not as great as it could have been.
Ball St and BGSU are now considered quality teams in several BCS computers.
So really instead of 4 quality teams we now have 6. It not like we were going to have a top 15 or 10 team so it doesn't really matter.
Actually now a good chunk of Ohio and Toledo top 25 votes are going to go to Kent St and NIU which should help put both in the top 26 this Sunday...assuming Kent St wins as NIU is on the MAC bye weekend.
Agreed, the games are not going to be as big as they originally were thought to be. The only issue with NIU and Kent getting more votes is they would have received even MORE votes after beating a 1 loss Toledo and 1 loss Ohio. Sure, we will now receive more votes early but not because of the big victory now.
(11-08-2012 05:07 PM)wmu2012 Wrote: [ -> ]Between Toledo and Ohio going down I was really hoping that both would win get to NIU v. Toledo at 1 loss and Ohio v. Kent 1 each total. Both of them losing hurts the case for the MAC to say these teams had quality wins at least at the same level with 2 1 loss teams in the MAC Championship. Still good teams but not as great as it could have been.
It's going to hurt the perception but if anyone is clear thinking then these results just go to show the MAC has a lot more depth than people thought..
Disagree. Both ranked teams lost conference games. They lost to OTHER MAC TEAMS. The MAC is deep this year and there's still a lot of parity. You can argue that this benefits the league because now NIU and Kent have the inside tracks to rankings in the very near future. There is no longer 4 one-loss MAC teams that voters will have trouble differentiating from each other, and thereby "taking" votes from each other. NIU will be in the rankings this week and Kent will be by the MACC if they make it there at 11-1.
Obviously Toledo, Ball State, Ohio and BG are dangerous and capable of beating almost any bowl opponent they would face. The MAC will get 6 bowl bids this year. Think about how awesome that is.
(11-08-2012 06:16 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote: [ -> ] (11-08-2012 05:07 PM)wmu2012 Wrote: [ -> ]Between Toledo and Ohio going down I was really hoping that both would win get to NIU v. Toledo at 1 loss and Ohio v. Kent 1 each total. Both of them losing hurts the case for the MAC to say these teams had quality wins at least at the same level with 2 1 loss teams in the MAC Championship. Still good teams but not as great as it could have been.
It's going to hurt the perception but if anyone is clear thinking then these results just go to show the MAC has a lot more depth than people thought..
The MAC is showing the country that its not 4 deep, its 6 deep. The only conference with more 7+ win teams right now is the SEC.
Toledo may be knocked out of the Top 25 but they'll still be picking up some votes. Ball State will finally start to get recognized with this Top 25 win by the voters and a solid 7-3 record.
I'm not sure if Ohio will retain some votes or if Bowling Green will earn any at this point.
As for Northern Illinois and Kent State, Toledo's loss helps them in the polls and it might even be a good thing because they'll be able to move up earlier than if Toledo was occupying a spot in the Top 25 going into next week.
Next week may mark the first time the MAC has placed 4 different schools in the Top 25 in one season and perhaps a record 6 schools receiving votes.
(11-08-2012 07:08 PM)niubrad00 Wrote: [ -> ]Obviously Toledo, Ball State, Ohio and BG are dangerous and capable of beating almost any bowl opponent they would face. The MAC will get 6 bowl bids this year. Think about how awesome that is.
If WMU can take care of business it could be 7 bowl bids, but yes 6 for sure.
Ohio even if they lose there final 3 regular season games would have 3-4 weeks to rest before a bowl game and get back to strength. The Bobcats would be a tough out for a mid major opponent in a bowl game.
If I was a fan of La Tech, Utah State, or the SBC Champ. Which one of our top 6 would I want to play to have the best chances of winning?
As of right now, in order I would want to play OU, BG, Toledo, BSU, Kent, NIU.
Haven't I seen the argument that conferences are ONLY judged on the TOP teams? If you believe this line of thinking, I would argue that top teams going down hurt the conference. I would've like to see 4 MAC teams ranked, although 2 would still be nice. Depth isn't a bad thing, but these 2 teams losing probably kills any shot they are ranked again (at least until after bowl season)... That isn't good for national publicity, if that is what you are interested in. The conference beating up on itself certainly makes for an interesting finish..
(11-08-2012 08:49 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote: [ -> ]If I was a fan of La Tech, Utah State, or the SBC Champ. Which one of our top 6 would I want to play to have the best chances of winning?
As of right now, in order I would want to play OU, BG, Toledo, BSU, Kent, NIU.
Yes but where are La Tech, Utah State and the SBC champ going to be playing?
Utah State (H Bowl)
La Tech (Independence....maybe Detroit)
SBC Champ (Go Daddy)
Unless they win the East Ohio isn't going to be playing in any of those bowl games. Heck, Ohio beat Utah State last year in the H Bowl even so no chance of a repeat matchup.
(11-08-2012 08:54 PM)The Optimist Wrote: [ -> ]Haven't I seen the argument that conferences are ONLY judged on the TOP teams? If you believe this line of thinking, I would argue that top teams going down hurt the conference. I would've like to see 4 MAC teams ranked, although 2 would still be nice. Depth isn't a bad thing, but these 2 teams losing probably kills any shot they are ranked again (at least until after bowl season)... That isn't good for national publicity, if that is what you are interested in. The conference beating up on itself certainly makes for an interesting finish..
I don't think Ohio and Toledo going down to a pair of 7-3 teams hurts the league at all in the power ratings. The conference is just sharing the wealth more with the Top 6 vs. Top 4.
NIU and Kent State will get more of a push for the Top 25 next week, that is all that will happen.
Optimist: I admit I am one of those long-standing MAC fans that secretly wish for one MAC school to break out each year and get ranked..it gets great exposure for the conference. But this year is something different (and special) because we actually have 4-6 teams that are very capable of wining bowl games this year, and we have so much strength that we should get at least one team ranked by year end (if not 2). Hey, despite my disdain for all things green, I was rooting for the Kittens to get into the rankings, but it was apparent a few weeks ago that they didn't have what it takes to get through the conference unscathed. So, I wasn't too bummed out when they lost (especially since it was initially to my RedHawks!). I gotta admit I was conflicted about the Rockets loss to BSU now that UT also was able to attain a top 25 ranking, since my little bro is a former BSU scholarship athlete and grad and is big-time into BSU athletes so I gotta root for the Cards. It hurt UT and the MAC's chances at a ranked team, but NIU and Kent are right there ready to take over and now BSU is looking really legit and more desirable by a bowl.
If NIU and Kent can play in the MACC with 1 loss each, then I think the net effect of Ohio and Toledo going down and the improved depth is an overall gain for the conference. If either NIU or Kent dont play in the MACC, then Ohio and Toledo going down is a net loss.
(11-08-2012 07:08 PM)niubrad00 Wrote: [ -> ]Disagree. Both ranked teams lost conference games. They lost to OTHER MAC TEAMS. The MAC is deep this year and there's still a lot of parity. You can argue that this benefits the league because now NIU and Kent have the inside tracks to rankings in the very near future
What it can do, and what it actually does are two different things. MAC as a whole is hurt by these losses. It's unfair, but it's reality.
The good news is that there is some good attention, and that plus the extra practice in the bowl season has helped the conference develop as a whole. If that continues, the next few years could be very fun.
(11-08-2012 08:54 PM)The Optimist Wrote: [ -> ]Haven't I seen the argument that conferences are ONLY judged on the TOP teams? If you believe this line of thinking, I would argue that top teams going down hurt the conference. I would've like to see 4 MAC teams ranked, although 2 would still be nice. Depth isn't a bad thing, but these 2 teams losing probably kills any shot they are ranked again (at least until after bowl season)... That isn't good for national publicity, if that is what you are interested in. The conference beating up on itself certainly makes for an interesting finish..
I (!) have made this point many time on this forum.
However, what is true this year is the TOP tier extends down much further than in previous years.
The top of the MAC extends say 1/2 way down vs say 2 or 3 or 4 as in most years.
Nevertheless, the MAC is still being defined by the top tier and not by UMass, EMU, etc. (the bottom tier).
UMass does not negate say NIU.
College FB pundits might say: "NIU is a really good team and will make a good bowl team and possible MAC champion."
Pundits will simply ignore UMass as being irrelevant.
Fans and pundits are interested in winners and ignore losers.
What I think is meaningful about this year is that we have a half dozen good teams for bowl selectors.
In some previous years, but not last year, if we went six deep for bowl games the 6th best team might be a very mediocre team.
This year will be so good as there will likely be many bowl opportunities for the MAC to fill and, like last year, actually WIN!