When the Ted was built, they had no restrictions on athletic fees or eminent domain. Not really comparable now.
Blue's complaint is legit, they should have been more aggressive when the demand was high.
Was this move to CUSA worth all of this? we don't seem competent enough to handle G5 football.
All of this heart ache for an opportunity to face Marshall or Florida something or other on the gridiron.
It didn't feel like we were done growing, but it does feel like we are done growing for the time being.
(01-02-2018 04:24 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-02-2018 04:10 PM)monarx Wrote: [ -> ] (01-02-2018 03:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (01-02-2018 03:25 PM)monarx Wrote: [ -> ] (01-02-2018 03:16 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ]There are a few examples of stadiums that never got to phase 2. It'll be dependent on the financial health and ticket demand of the program.
It would be great if they were working on getting a bill introduced that kills/overrides the Cox law.
Which is why its critical to get a nice press box, student end zone, suites and scoreboard in phase 1. Phase 2 may never happen, and we'll be stuck with what we build now. Its not the capacity that worries me. If we build 22k now and need 30 later let that be phase 2.
What we do need now, is a nice, modern, impressive stadium that looks great, has a great locker room and sells itself to recruits, one that provides a top notch fan experience, has suites and nice club level to generate revenue, and a good press box that makes it easy for Tv and other media to come to campus and cover the games.
Yeah, thats not happening.
Is anyone starting think Mark Benson was the brains behind all the good stuff that happened for ODU sports over the last decade? Ever since he left everything seems to have gone to crap. Any chance we fire Wood over this debacle and bring back Mark?
Everything? Is that hyperbole or what? There are a lot of good things happening with ODU athletics.
Mark also left before the Cox bill was signed by McAuliffe.
True. Not everything is crap. But, football seems to have lost a lot of momentum and doesn't appear on a positive trajectory. And we are in the midst of the longest drought of NCAA appearances by the men and the women. The women's program is arguably at its lowest point ever. But the new coach does seem good. We have a good mens team, but will it be good enough to break the NCAA drought? We'll see. Field Hockey is nowhere near its old glory. Soccer is still strong, as is wrestling. Baseball is stable. When Mark was here basketball was very strong, football was legitimately selling out every game with a waiting list, field hockey was winning championships, nice facilities were being proposed etc.
Foreman Field was messed up from the get go. Didn't the original survey "predict" that we would only have several thousand at games and only a couple thousand season ticket holders? I know hindsight is 20/20 but if we knew what we knew now, things could have been so much different (i.e. the Gameday building in the south end zone).
A lot of things have gone against us in the last few years that have botched this thing big time. CUSA at first seemed like a great vertical move until the departure of schools like ECU and the TV deals going down the drain. ODU hasn't made a splash in CUSA since we've arrived. Our opening game meltdown during the CUSA tournament of the NIT year negates whatever good we did during the season IMO, because as great as the team was we choked hard when it counted. This stadium debacle is coming as no surprise to me. It feels like the administration would rather lay down and take it than fight for what they want. Saying that $55M is all they got and is all they can afford is ridiculous. At least put in the effort of setting a higher goal and pushing fans and alumni to help. If they blew up everyone's emails asking to raise money for this to get the best they can possibly get with the obstacles placed in front of them, I would give them credit (and some of my money) for at least trying, and they would get more people to donate and help reach the goal. But instead they're just giving up. We are going to have an unimpressive stadium and will most likely settle for what we have for a long time after. ODU seemed like they were on the rise when I was there, 2 NCAA tournament appearances in a row, 2 top 10 finishes and FCS playoff runs in a row, with school spirit and fan pride for days. Now, I bet current students don't give 2 sh*ts about sports and couldn't tell you who we're playing and what our records are. ODU seems to be falling back, not pushing for the future. This is small-time at best and it is really frustrating to this ODU fan who saw so much potential only for it to fizzle out like it is now.
If they get the stadium right, it will set ODU up well for an AAC move. If they get the stadium right, corporate donations and fan support will increase dramatically. ODU football will be the talk of the town. If they blow it, attendance will plummet, recruiting will tank and we will be looking at 11,000 people in attendance, longing for the CAA/FCS days of old. If that happens the admin will pat themselves on the back for their foresight in not building a large nice stadium because they saw the drop in attendance coming. Never mind that if the stadium was great and the team was winning, the crowd would be 25,000 strong. This has all the makings of a self-fulfilling curse. I hope Im wrong.
We really are in a bind with only $55M to play with. Maybe we could use some of that to take out an insurance policy and have a "natural disaster" destroy the stadium. Didn't I read somewhere the stands are becoming structurally unstable?
We really need some good news to come along. Maybe they are intentionally lowering expectations so when they build a $60M stadium we will all be elated.
Take the 55mil to Vegas. Put it all on black.
(01-02-2018 04:57 PM)MonGNARch Wrote: [ -> ]Foreman Field was messed up from the get go. Didn't the original survey "predict" that we would only have several thousand at games and only a couple thousand season ticket holders? I know hindsight is 20/20 but if we knew what we knew now, things could have been so much different (i.e. the Gameday building in the south end zone).
A lot of things have gone against us in the last few years that have botched this thing big time. CUSA at first seemed like a great vertical move until the departure of schools like ECU and the TV deals going down the drain. ODU hasn't made a splash in CUSA since we've arrived. Our opening game meltdown during the CUSA tournament of the NIT year negates whatever good we did during the season IMO, because as great as the team was we choked hard when it counted. This stadium debacle is coming as no surprise to me. It feels like the administration would rather lay down and take it than fight for what they want. Saying that $55M is all they got and is all they can afford is ridiculous. At least put in the effort of setting a higher goal and pushing fans and alumni to help. If they blew up everyone's emails asking to raise money for this to get the best they can possibly get with the obstacles placed in front of them, I would give them credit (and some of my money) for at least trying, and they would get more people to donate and help reach the goal. But instead they're just giving up. We are going to have an unimpressive stadium and will most likely settle for what we have for a long time after. ODU seemed like they were on the rise when I was there, 2 NCAA tournament appearances in a row, 2 top 10 finishes and FCS playoff runs in a row, with school spirit and fan pride for days. Now, I bet current students don't give 2 sh*ts about sports and couldn't tell you who we're playing and what our records are. ODU seems to be falling back, not pushing for the future. This is small-time at best and it is really frustrating to this ODU fan who saw so much potential only for it to fizzle out like it is now.
Very well said.
Does anybody know why bonds were not considered as an option for building our stadium? Or are we using bonds to finance it, and I am just unaware?
wish he had a “football stadium ted constant” to donate $30 million to make this stadium better, the populous build up to this erector set has left a bad taste in my mouth. I guess its just a reality check that we dont have money. Even the student union has been scrapped for a while.
(01-03-2018 10:01 AM)ODUguy1999 Wrote: [ -> ]wish he had a “football stadium ted constant” to donate $30 million to make this stadium better, the populous build up to this erector set has left a bad taste in my mouth. I guess its just a reality check that we dont have money. Even the student union has been scrapped for a while.
Me too. What I don't understand is why so many other schools in the state seem to be able to have nice things. JMU has a nice 3/4 football stadium (and their fans expect the other side to be completed in the near future) and soon to have a very nice basketball arena, VCU with an opulent practice facility, UVA with the JPJ & VT has a great football stadium. And though they are private, Liberty and Richmond have very nice stadiums. What is it that other schools leadership has that ODU is lacking? Why can't our leaders seem to get the same type of things done? If the Cox bill really is simply a JMU alumnus abusing his power to stop ODU from having the same athletic resources as his alma mater, I would think a lawsuit might be successful. This bill has a much harsher effect on ODU than any other school in the state.
VCU went cheap on their basketball arena. I would think in retrospect, they wish they had waited another year or two and built something like the Ted. Thats exactly what ODU should do with the football stadium. Wait two more years and try to raise another 20 million if that what it takes to build something at least average for a G5 level program.
The longer we wait, the greater the costs escalate. It's a Catch-22.
(01-03-2018 10:15 AM)monarchfan4life Wrote: [ -> ]The longer we wait, the greater the costs escalate. It's a Catch-22.
Thats true, but inflation isn't that crazy yet. I would hope we could raise money at a faster rate than inflation. If they did a capital campaign specifically for the stadium I would think they could raise several million pretty quickly. This project will also be huge for the city and its in Norfolk's interest for it to be successful. Is it possible for Norfolk to contribute $10 million or something and have it be owned jointly by the city and ODU? Maybe use it for high school playoff games or something? Where there is a will, theres a way. We seem stuck on this $55 million, which evidently will not buy what we need, and there seems to be no will to try to raise more. Approach the state with our issue and see if we can get the stadium retroactively grandfathered in so the Cox bill doesn't crush it. Something. I'm truly worried this stadium is going to be a smaller version of Norfolk State's FCS stadium and cripple our football program permanently.
Peer facilities for comparison:
UCF's stadium would cost $67 million in 2017 dollars ($55 mil when built). So they can raise $12 million more ODU could get something nice, that they could be proud of.
FAU built theirs with the end zone, press tower, suites etc for $70 million six years ago.
JMUs was $62 million six years ago.
So it seems ODU needs about $10-15 million more to make something good. That is not an unachievable goal.
I think what we are forgetting, and MB's post confirms, is we are concerned about the structural integrity of Foreman. I don't think waiting is an option unless we want to play in the soccer stadium in Virginia Beach (I am guessing that would be the next best option)
(01-03-2018 10:13 AM)monarx Wrote: [ -> ]Me too. What I don't understand is why so many other schools in the state seem to be able to have nice things. JMU has a nice 3/4 football stadium (and their fans expect the other side to be completed in the near future) and soon to have a very nice basketball arena
Football stadium done before Cox bill and the arena is grandfathered in. Nothing more than hearsay currently on expansion.
(01-03-2018 10:13 AM)monarx Wrote: [ -> ]VCU with an opulent practice facility
They don't have to worry about funding football. Funneling all resources to one sport makes for ease of efficient spending.
(01-03-2018 10:13 AM)monarx Wrote: [ -> ]UVA with the JPJ & VT has a great football stadium.
Does this really need to be explained?
(01-03-2018 10:13 AM)monarx Wrote: [ -> ]And though they are private, Liberty and Richmond have very nice stadiums.
Liberty has the online monopoly bankrolling this and no state legislators to answer to. And have you been to URs stadium? It's a nice high school stadium. Renovation costs were 28 mil, just a little higher than what we spent on the game day building.
(01-03-2018 10:42 AM)odu09 Wrote: [ -> ]I think what we are forgetting, and MB's post confirms, is we are concerned about the structural integrity of Foreman. I don't think waiting is an option unless we want to play in the soccer stadium in Virginia Beach (I am guessing that would be the next best option)
I doubt if 2 years would make a difference for the structure, but if it did, then safety is obviously a huge concern. I guess ODU could save face by announcing the bare bones plan to be completed the first year as planned, and announce at the same time how some of the luxuries, bells & whistles that are standard for college football stadiums would be added as soon as that first season is finished and have the actual new stadium ready for season 2. Just call it a continuation of phase 1. That way they don't hold out on everything that will make the stadium decent in phase one, and we're stuck with substandard for a decade. I think the fan base and community would understand a time for construction issue much more than a "we just don't have the money to compete" problem. If we did that, I would even hold off on all of the grand opening celebrations etc until after season 2 when phase one was complete. We have one chance to make a great first impression to potential fans, press and players with this thing.
(01-03-2018 10:53 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-03-2018 10:13 AM)monarx Wrote: [ -> ]Me too. What I don't understand is why so many other schools in the state seem to be able to have nice things. JMU has a nice 3/4 football stadium (and their fans expect the other side to be completed in the near future) and soon to have a very nice basketball arena
Football stadium done before Cox bill and the arena is grandfathered in. Nothing more than hearsay currently on expansion.
I get it. Our football stadium should be grandfathered in as well. Cox said as much. Our leadership needs to talk to our legislators and somehow pressure them into making this happen. Seems strange that JMU gets everything they want and then their alumnus magically passes a bill to keep ODU from getting what they need. Both projects are at the same phase of construction.
(01-03-2018 10:13 AM)monarx Wrote: [ -> ]VCU with an opulent practice facility
They don't have to worry about funding football. Funneling all resources to one sport makes for ease of efficient spending.
We knew that when we started football and joined CUSA. Surely the leadership took that into consideration. Football is supposedly making money anyway, so it shouldn't make a difference.
(01-03-2018 10:13 AM)monarx Wrote: [ -> ]UVA with the JPJ & VT has a great football stadium.
Does this really need to be explained?
Nope. Just pointing out other state schools that have nice resources.
(01-03-2018 10:13 AM)monarx Wrote: [ -> ]And though they are private, Liberty and Richmond have very nice stadiums.
Liberty has the online monopoly bankrolling this and no state legislators to answer to. And have you been to URs stadium? It's a nice high school stadium. Renovation costs were 28 mil, just a little higher than what we spent on the game day building.
Understood. Also, I have not been to URs in person, but seen it on TV and in photos. It seems it will be much nicer than our stadium is being described now, but a bit less than half the capacity.